buickdeere

Not to start another Pi$$ing match, There are some here I have learned to respect when they say something!!I'm trying to learn here, what is your thoughts on the AC D-12 fuel cell tractor and why it did't go over? Thanks to everyone for their comments without name calling
Ron

Here's the trouble with alternative ways of doing things:

They cost more. We are _all_ bargin hunters, why is Wallmart thriving? We are low-ball buyers, we want a deal. We set up a system in this country where the cheapest power is electricty for stationary things; natural gas in cities or lp in remote areas for heat; and gasoline or diesel for mobile power.

These things are not used by accident. They are the best bang for the buck in today's world.

The only time we try something different is when prices get all mangled up - back in the early 70's when gas lines formed & prices went up; and again now a year ago. Then we scurry around and complain & say we should be doing something else....

But, if you get down to it, 'something else' costs more.

The fuel cell and turbine engined tractors were cool. They answered the question of 'someone should do something!' about our energy use when prices rose real fast.

But, fuel prices come back down, and none of us buyers end up really wanting to 'do something' ourselves.

Cool thinking outside the box, but it doesn't fit where we are at. Piston engine running on diesel is the low-cost standard to this day.

That might change someday, but not until the $$$ say we should change. Takes a good 5 years before momentum would swing a change like this.

So far, a couple little blips in prices over the past 40 years hasn't changed the $$$ figures.

--->Paul

BuickandDeere can be a snob and i can see how a fellow like Wild Bill might take offense to him.
More than once I was tempted to lay in to B&D.
But overall his posts are knowledgeable, helpful, and totally within the spirit of these boards - which is to share knowledge, have a little fun, rip one another when we're wrong and generally be nuisances one and all.
Besides, with Eleven Thousand Posts B&D will automatically garner more kinship, regard and respect than a fellow like Bill with 26 posts at YT.
If it were election time again I know who I'd be voting for.

I'd love to see steam come back into the fields. It would be a great way to rid some of that stuff I gotta clean outta them fence rows every year.

First I need to say that B&D is a well educated person. He is very knowledgable on AC/DC systems, all electrical and technical stuff. I have been on this board for 8 years. Yes, 8 years.

I have enjoyed the conversations over the years, I too get rude with people but I respect 90% of the guys on here and B&D is great guy and I value the input of any person on here that has something constructive to say and share their experiences and work related ups/downs.

I have seen many on this board that were a**holes. Like the "the real ron" This Ron guy was a major jerk, I wanted to punch this clown in the mouth many times, he is gone now---I havent seen his name (unless he is going by another name) for 3+ years. We still have some on here that are flaming Liberals and downright commie Pinko idiots. (very few though)

I enjoy and hope to still enjoy the knowledge/insight/conversation of all on here for many more years. I have 10+ friends that I know well and can call/talk/see. However, on this site there are 100+ guys all over the USA that I have never seen personally but share the same interests as me.......mostly. Old Tractors/some gun comments/anti-abundant attitude/do-it-yourself capability.

I hope Kim and the gang at YTmag keep the sight going for many more years. I think that the only way this site will get tanked and deleted is if some on here throw out death threats against any other person, That could get ugly. I can see it now on the news, Billy bob and Jed both from Kentucky met online and started bickering on the Ytmag site, selected a meeting spot and both shot each other at close range with a pump 12 gauge shotgun.

HEY!!!!!! Why you gotta drag the Ky boys into this?????



Dave

From what I remember of the reports of ACs fuel cell tractor, it wasn't very fuel efficient and was pretty heavy for its power.
Just my memory and you know how good that is.
Paul

Very well said. We cherish our "free market" although we don't often see the "finger on/under the scales" distortion. Who cares when the oil runs out, our future generations will just have to deal with it as costs rise. Leonard

Excellent!

There was only ONE Allis fuel-cell tractor. It was a Research Vehicle. It is in the Smithsonian now.

Kent

To be honest, and I hate to even get involved in this, but that is the truth, he is seemingly abrasive at times, but it's really just a personality conflict, I won't say anything derogatory, and do not intend to by any means, to anyone here, because it serves no useful purpose to anyone, far better to steer the conversation back to intellectual, technical or just some casual banter, I mean really, so what people conflict with each other, that will not change, we can judge each other all we want, but what purpose does it serve, just be creative and fire back in good taste, but show some respect and some discipline, no need for people to get personal, heck we only know each other from this site for the most part, so it's kind of unfair to each other to sling mud back and forth. I did with him not that long ago, but I felt as you suggested, many times at things I've read here. I think it's just considerate, polite and much better forum etiquette to not get into it with others over a personality conflict, stemming from a web forum conversation, it is what it is, and a lot of good has been done by this forum and most all who participate, yet nothing is perfect, there is a sense of or at least everyone seems to maintain a civil attitude, when it could be completely opposite, there is much more positive here then negative. Take a look at a craigslist rant&rave, good contrast there for ya... if'n this place got like that, I can see why an administrator would get frustrated and shut 'er down.

B&D demonstrates and shares knowledge, like most if not all here, not fair for me or anyone to judge, but you toss the abrasive personality, and you've got an intelligent person there, so ignore that part, we all know better, just sometimes people let loose, things may not really be as they appear, and none of us are any better than the other, you know it's the collaborative effort by all, and all is what makes the place what it is, so please take no offense, none intended, I'm sure I could get placed on the hot seat, after participating for the last 8 or 9 years, but what does it accomplish ? fire away.......

"Snob" maybe a little harsh. Tired, cranky, in a hurry &/or frustrated would be ok.

buickanddeere, your thoughts on my question?? I think we kinda got off the subject at hand! I really don't care about all the preaching (-: I know it ran on propane which was about a 5 cents a Ga. in those days

I'm not familiar with the fuel cell Allis in particular. Before my time.
Fuel cells work better on pure hydrogen and pure oxygen. LP gas carries a lot of carbon with it which reduces efficiency. Even today the “fuel cell” cars operate on hydrogen manufactured from methane/natural gas. Natural gas would work better in the Allis fuel cells as it’s “lighter” with less carbon.
$$$ rules. So the cost of fuel cells, higher fuel consumption, engineering/research/testing/training. It doomed the fuel cell tractor to either being ahead of it's time. Or a good idea that didn't work.
Back in that era according to Popular Mechanics, Popular Science & Mechanics Illustrated. Fuel cells and/or Gas turbines were going to make piston engines obsolete by 1970. And any machine could run on any liquid or gas that would burn.

LOL
No hard feelings I hope.
I would take your advice on a lot of things.

That's right leave Ky out of this, besides they are all to busy dating their kin.