Re: Roosa Master DBG - No Fuel Problem...

Did you change the plastic governor ring? Take the fitting off the top of the pump and see if it keeps running. You will need a bucket under it or just take the check valve out and use another plain fitting for a test. You may have cut the seal. Did you take the pump off with or without drive shaft? I don't understand your readings of readline 80-40 on the transfer pump. What is your transfer pump pressure when it runs?

yes--there is a trick to sliding that pump onto shaft. very easy for lip on seal to turn backwards when slipping together--ruining seal-fuel will leak into crankcase, rubber pieces will stop up return fitting killing engine. the ''trick' is to lube & install seal on shaft, make sure it drops in groove good,lip towards pump. slide pump onto shaft til seal lip meets pilot tube-you must work this lip in first. as it trys to turn backwards. I think i have a plastic install tool [homemade] that i have used. check brass tube for damage good luck--paul

(quoted from post at 05:40:48 02/18/09) Did you change the plastic governor ring? Take the fitting off the top of the pump and see if it keeps running. You will need a bucket under it or just take the check valve out and use another plain fitting for a test. You may have cut the seal. Did you take the pump off with or without drive shaft? I don't understand your readings of readline 80-40 on the transfer pump. What is your transfer pump pressure when it runs?

Click to expand...

I don't recall a Plastic Governor Ring... may have though... this was my first time and I was very intemidated by it... exactly which plastic ring are you referring to?

In reference to the Fuel Pressure Gauge that is connected to the "OUT" on the pump, I was asked in a previous what it measured up to. The guage will have you in the Red if the fuel pressure is below 40lbs and it goes up to 80lbs I think.

I will try removing the fitting on top and see what happens and follow up with you.

THANKS!!!!

It makes no difference if you ruined the shaft seals or not when you installed the pump. That has nothing to do with the pump running the engine or not. It will run fine with no seals, but the engine crankcase will quickly fill up with diesel fuel.

I don't understand the fuel pressure gauge nor the reading you're getting. That pump is actually two pumps in one housing. The low pressure pump runs from zero up to around 60 PSI, depending on RPMs - for most models with a spee and/or load advance. It has to change with speed since it runs the timing advance mechanism. That is the low pressure pump. It also cannot have high pressure fuel being fed to it since that will screw up the advance. Zero pressure being fed to it is fine as long as fuel flow is available. The other pump is the high pressure side the sends fuels through the injectors at pressures over 1000 PSI, sometimes over 3000 PSI.

You say you rebuilt the pump - so I ask, what exactly did you do? Even a certified Standyne/Roosamaster pump shop does not really "rebuild" those pumps. It's not cost effective. They just pull them apart, replace a few small parts, reuse as-is the major parts, and reseal and calibrate - that's all. $50 in parts, two hours labor, and often a $600 repair price.

I worked in three pump shops and can probably tell you what you need to know. But, it's a waste of time unless you specify exactly what you have already done - or haven't done.

The pump is not all that complicated. Little rotary vane pump in the back that feeds low pressure fuel through a metering valve - and then on to a cylinder with two little round pump plungers. They are forced in and out by riding on cam lobes as the engine spins. When they move, they pump high pressure fuel through a common delivery valve, then though a fuel distributor that decides which cylinder gets that fuel charge.

Yes, there is a trick to installing the pump. The lip of the umbrella seal should point towards the engine as you push the pump shaft in. This lip wants to roll over on you if you just shove the pump home. I tried the method of "help the seal with my fingers" plus maybe some wishful thinking. After I got the same results as you a couple of times, I got one of those Ford fuel line removal tools (looks like a pair of pliers with semi-circular jaws). You can buy them at most auto parts stores. See link below for a picture.

Use these pliers to compress the shaft seal and carefully ease the pump in. Once the seal gets past the opening for the pump shaft, it quits trying to roll over on you. The pump will stop leaking diesel into the crankcase once the seal is installed correctly.
tool for compressing shaft seal

In regard to the twin shaft seals, it doesn't make a huge difference if you use the correct tool or not. It can help if used correctly. It can also be done with no tool if you have experience and are careful. Big problem often is - there will be a ridge worn in the drive-end bushing in the pump. It ought to replaced and a new one only costs $8. Some companies, e.g. Ford special ordered those pumps with steel bushings, but most - including Deere use brass. Correct seal installation tool is Roosamaster/Stanadyne # 13371.

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=stanadyneshaftsealtool.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=Roosmastertoolset.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

I guess rebuilding isn't the correct verbage, but that's what I have found most on this site to describe what I have done. I bought what I would call and O-Ring kit with a few other parts in it. This was a part number something like 23471 if I remember correctly.

To start with this grader had sat for a couple of years without being used. When it would start, I checked the fuel and I didn't get anything out of the bottom "OUT" connection that goes to the fuel pressure gauge on the grader. I also removed a couple of the injector lines and didn't get any fuel out of these either.

I completely disassembled the pump and throughly cleaned and inspected according to the manual I purchased for the Roosa DB pumps.

I assembled the pump with the new o-rings and etc and re-installed it on my grader. The grader started right up and ran fine for a few minutes and then died like it ran out of fuel. I can start it back up and it will run for a few seconds and die again.

I ensured that it had fuel and went as far as putting a couple of new fuel filters on it just to be safe (even though the fuel pressure gauge was reading around 80 when the unit started up for the short time).

I removed one of the injector lines and I have good fuel being pumped out of the pump when the unit starts.

What I don't have is any fuel returning to the tank, not from the injectors nor from the return on top of the pump.

I did check the oil and the level has gotten pretty high, so I can only assume that the shaft seal is suspect on that part, but I don't understand why I am getting fuel to the injectors but nothing from the injectors!?!?

Attached is a picture I made that may help me explain what I have going on right now...

Have you tried running it with the ENTIRE fuel return fitting/valve removed from the pump?

Does it spill out fuel then and keep running?

Give that a try and post back.

(OBVIOUS precautions about fire and possible spilled fuel apply.)

The #24371 seal kit comes with a new pellathane governor weight retainer ring. Kit should of cost around $12. Looks like this when the ring is installed and in one piece.

You might want to check and see if the pump is still actually turning. You might have snapped the shear-shaft in two.

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=weightretainerringoldstyle2.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Thanks to you all for your help, especially jdemaris.

I removed the return fuel line fitting on top of the injection pump. I started it up and it ran great, with fuel shooting out of the top of the pump of course.

Upon inspection of the fitting, I found that the little glass ball was stuck. So I soaked it in some WD40 for awhile and began to work it a little bit and it started to move as it should. After ensuring that it was throughly clean and moving correctly, I put it back on and proceeded to replace the shaft seals.

When all of this was done, she is running like a top.

I bought this grader for $2000. It was physically in good shape including the cab and glass. After a $30 kit, some of my time and yours... I am now the proud owner of a Allis Chalmers M100B Grader that runs great.

Thanks again for everyones help. I couldn't have done it with out you!!!!

Oklahoma,

This 'glass ball' has been discussed in depth in these forums. You have perhaps performed a temporary fix. (as I have myself). May I suggest that you search the archives about this. Mr JDmarris had/has much input about this. Which has helped me much as well!
...sl

Oklahoma,

This 'glass ball' has been discussed in depth in these forums. You have perhaps performed a temporary fix. (as I have myself). May I suggest that you search the archives about this. Mr JDmarris had/has much input about this. Which has helped me much as well!
...sl

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up Steve. I read your postings with JDmarris and found it to be informational. All though it was quite difficult, I did get my glass ball to work freely. I really don't feel comfortable drilling it out since it could actually stop up, shut the engine down and therefore letting me know that I have some lose debris in my pump and it may be time for another pump kit. Since I just put a pump kit in (JDmarris, I keep wanting to say rebuild kit... :lol: ) I suspect that it will be fine.