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Luskey5

New User
Hey folks!

I just purchased a 23 acre tract of land that has not been worked in several years. In some parts the bermuda is really thick. Have been looking for Ford 8N, 9N, and am interested in a 1952 841 dsl that I have seen. Having never owned a tractor, couls you help with some questions?

Obviously, these things are 45 to 60 years old and, unless restored, am not expecting perfect condition. Have only seen / test driven 1 so far, a 1950 (he thinks) 8N. My questions are:

1) The steering and front wheel seem to have a lot of play, or slop in them. You can grab the front wheel and shake them, and when driving, the steering control arms walk quite a bit. You have to turn the steering wheel almost 1/4 turn before steering reacts. So, whats normal? Do these things have some play, or should they be really tight? Is it hard to replace the steering gear box?

2) System has been converted to 12V, yet all original switches are by passed with replacement stuff. Can original equip work with 12V?

3) Was real impressed with drive line. Motor was good, no smoke, great oil pressure. PTO worked and drove the bush hog attached just fine. Has recently been painted, but there was obvious minor damage to the tin and a few other parts.... what else should I watch out for???

4) Owner not sure of year or HP rating on the motor. How can I find out? Where would a serial number be located?

Thanks in advance for any help!!! JUst looking forward to working the land we will retire on!!!
 
If you're looking to put one to work, go with the 841. That's not to say that an 8N won't do the job, it'll just be a lot more pleasant with the bigger machine. We've got an 8N and it does the job, but the lack of live hydraulics and extra weight and horsepower leave a little bit to be desired. True, its 59 years old, but just slightly newer gets you a considerably better tractor.

On the 8N you looked at, the steering boxes generally do have slop in them, anywhere between an eighth to a quarter turn without movement of the wheels is not that uncommon. If the 12 V system works, keep it. The only thing I can think off the top of my head why you would want original system is for the push button starter safety, which prevents you from starting the tractor in gear. Cosmetics aren't that big an issue on a worker, but be careful with a recently painted machine, as the seller could be trying to hide something.

Assuming this really is an 8N Ford, the serial number should be on the left side of the block just below the head. Take that number and look up the year using the serial numbers page on the left, under the research and info page. Horsepower is right around 26.

If I'm wrong on much of this, there's more than enough knowledge here on the N series to correct me.

Kevin
 
Just my $.02 (which I have a hard time following myself sometimes), that 23 acres will be enough work in itself without having a tractor that may need constant work. What do you plan on doing with the land (what implements are you planning to need)? If all you plan on doing is cleaning it off and maintaining it, I'd think about having someone hit it with a brush hog to get a head start and get that little ford and make it real pretty.

a1373.jpg


Love this picture........

However, as it should, common sense needs to kick in. If you work full time your spare time is probably better spent taking care of your property and enjoying life than major repairs and constant tinkering on a tractor.

Good Luck

Dave
 
Enjoyed the routine........especially the part about the '52 841 diesel; do you do 'stand-up'?
 
Just some suggestions. If you are looking for a good utility tractor. I would pass on the Ford 9N/8N. They are good tractors, but as log as your looking get all the convinenances of a little more technology.

I will prefface that I am a Ferguson guy and know that line best.

I would look at the Ferguson TO-35, F-40, MF-50, MF-65, MF-35, MF-135 or MF-165. In the ford line these would correspond to the 600 and 800 series and some later modles I do not really know... ford 2000 perhaps.

The reason, you will want, live power, independant PTO, position control, power steering if available. Little more power 30 to 40 HP range instead of the 20 hp of the 9N.

Cost wise... 9N/8N are in the $1K to $3K range for avrage condition tractors. The ones I listed run in the $1.5K to $3.5K range for the -35's $2K to 4.5K for the -40, -65, -50. and 3K to 6K for the rest. You Get a whole lot more for the same money...

You may also want to look at some 1970's vintage models.. MF200 series. These are getting down into the sub $5000 range.

Maybe the best approach could be to figure out how much you are willing to invest, then ask the board or even the individual brand boards... How much tractor can I get for $______ this.

Be sure to list what jobs you want to acomplish with it.

Jeff
 
We plan to use the land (in Northern Oklahoma) just for recreation for the kids, and maybe a good sized garden. Like I said the 8N I drove ran strong but have questios about (after more research) about the steering, more as to the linkage and front bearings than the gear box.

The man I talked to on the 841 said mechanically it's in great shape, but need restoration on the tin to prevent any damage. It's a diesle, so I hope he's correct. I'll get to see it Monday.

Have found other 8N's in my area, will get to see them this weekend.

OK, who is Samuel Bontrager, so I guess the answer is no?

Thanks for the input! More is always welcome.
 
There is also good information in the articles section of this site.

The 1st two articles under general tractor topics... are how to choose the right tractor and how to buy/ what to look for.

Use this link or the pick from the menu's on the left.
YTmag articles
 
I have a friend in Clinton, OK that is very knowlegible and may be able to help you find an good deal.

If you are near there e-mail and I can introduce you if you'd like.
 
Personally, I would not own a tractor without live PTO. None of the N-series have live PTO or live hydraulics. All of the x00/x01 series have live hydraulics, but the four speed transmissions (and some of the five speeds) don't have live PTO.

Also, the N-series tractors are a bit underpowered for mowing thick bermudagrass, although I'm sure they'll do the job in first gear.

Rather than the diesel 841, I suggest you look for a gas 861 (or the nearly identical four-cylinder 4000). Not only will it start easier than the diesel, it has live PTO and a lower first gear than the four-speed 841. The downside of the live PTO tractors is that clutch replacement is very expensive, so you need to check out the clutch for slipping before you buy.
 
Doesn't matter what you are purchasing. Always compare the price new vs. used. To get a feel for real market value.
You can sink $5000 into a used machine repairs real quick and only have a 50+ year old used machine worth $2500.

If it doesn't have these features, walk away.

Live pto, power steering, hydraulic brakes, differential lock, high pressure/high volume hydraulics, live hydraulics, remote hydraulic connectors with scv, rops(roll over protection system), 12V factory electrics,three point hitch and a real bolted in place drawbar. A drawbar stuck through the three point hitch lower arms doesn't count.

The N series are popular on the market because they were very cheap entry level tractor in the 1930's-1950's. A lot of loyal Ford vehicle owners added to the N series sales.
Now people purchase N's and find out they don't work well. Then put them up for sale yet again.
Also ask your local members of the volunteer fire dept. The Ford N series is the tractor most often lifted off crushed tractor owner/operators.
For $11,000 you can go to the JD dealer and purchase a 2305 with all those features and more. Plus have easy to attach loader, mower and backhoe options.
No clutch to burn out or transmission gears to smash either.
The 2305 has more power than the N series and with the standard equipment M4WD. It will drag an N series tractor around like a toy on loose or wet ground.
 
Make a decision,you want to retire or work on a tractor ? Forget a 60 year old Tractor and Mower and check out a Cub Cadet or a Kubota.Right now good deals can be found on any thing and a late model or new Kubota with Mower depending on size can be bought at depressed prices. Google Kubota and see what you can find.My opinion,JC
 
Luskey, what Thurlow is trying to say, in a cynical way, is that the 841 cannot be a 1952- the 800 series came out several years later. I don't believe a little confusion on year of manufacture is a flaming offense, especially from one who admits to being a newby (and was undoubtedly just repeating what the seller told him). Lighten up, Thurlow.
 
Hey Mike............I just thought the questions and comments were a little too 'pat', something we've seen from various trolls from time to time; maybe not. If he's legitimate, he probably needs some 'on the site/on the ground help', rather than ask on-line...........from folks who may or may not know what they're talking about. I don't know how a first-timer sorts the grain from the chaff. You and I both know that there are folks who post on here that we wouldn't accept directions to the mailbox from...........to dangle one-a-them participles or infinitives or something.
 
(quoted from post at 08:00:15 02/06/09)
For $11,000 you can go to the JD dealer and purchase a 2305 with all those features and more. Plus have easy to attach loader, mower and backhoe options.
.
Click to expand...

are you a dealer trying to pedal these things or are they really that good?

Pretty interesting with that price (compared to what's available here). Could have one shipped for around 1500 bucks. Any ideas what other brands/models compare? Isn't JD Japanese now anyway (just what I read on here)?

Dave
 
23 acres is just to much for such a small tractor we used an IH 1066 with a 5 bottom plow and 12 ft. disc to get 5 acres ready for Xmas tree planting was all done in one day. with the little tractor you are talking about and a 1 bottom plow you are looking a 3 to 5 days just to plow up 5 acres. If you have lots of free time then don't worry about it but I would get something with around 100 to 150 HP and not spend all day out in the field plowing or discing or mowing. With the larger tractor you can get a large 15 ft. triple blade bush hog and mow it in a day with the smaller tractor and a 4 or 5 ft. mower you are looking at a lot of just riding around in circles.
Walt
PS if it the cost then sell out and get 5 acres or less you will be much happier.
 
I'm not a dealer.
As for what you read here on ytmag about JD. Most of it is from Bubba down at the diner. Who is still upset that his pappy's IH company went bust and was boughtup/merged.
Bubba figures Deere had to be doing something crooked, illegal or stealing to survive.
In North America where the lowest priced item sells and the 100% American content item gathers dust on the shelf.Try to find anything that doesn't contain Mexican or Chinese components.
Actually the days of cheap low priced products from Japan, even Korea are long gone.
Deere would use Yanmar components because they own part of Yanmar. They also have some partnerships in the Japanese heavy construction equipment market.
 
It,s easy to get excited about something, and later look back and wish you had looked around more. The play in the steering ,means wear ,and might be adjusted to tightened it up ,but also may need expensive parts.I would look around for a later model tractor,with more of the more modern items already mentioned
 
Jeez,
I never new there was so much disdain for the little N Fords. Folks who hate them so much ought to skip the posts relating to them. I'd sure hate to see anyone get a heartastroke over one.
That said, The N series Fords are great little tractors. They are totally nimble, rugged, reliable, entirely simple to work on and parts are nearly hardware store items they are so readily available.
70 years after their inception they are still chugging away doing entirely USEFUL work around the world.
Compare one to another tractor of similar horse power - Allis Chalmers B or a John Deere B or a Farmall H. All of those were great tractors but the 3 point hitch on an N puts it in a league of it's own. The 3 point hitch set by Ford/Ferguson is STILL the standard throughout the world!
As for safety I would like to see some statistics to back up the claim that fire depts see more N owners killed than any other tractor.
They are entry level machines often operated by entry level operators. So of course you will see deaths and mistakes no matter what color tractor the newbie killed himself on.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those people who think that an N is the ONLY tractor Ford ever made. And I don't think Ford is the only company that made good tractors.
But show me another 50,60,70 year old tractor that you can hook one of a hundred different implements to and put it to work in so many useful ways as easily as quickly and as cheaply as you can a 3 point tractor.
Iv'e had several N Fords. They were a cheap way for a newbie to get the hang of what tractors will and wont do. I've moved beyond them now and other than for nostalgic reasons wouldn't buy another. Bereft of modern options, lacking in a score of ways an N is still a great little tractor.
 
I wouldn't own a tractor without live hydraulics.
I wouldn't buy a tractor without power steering and differential lock.
But I honestly think that Live PTO is entirely over rated on a machine under 40 hp.
 

Depends on wheather you are a "Gentleman-Farmer" or a Farming-minded man..

IF you want convienience, yea, go the $50,000.oo route..get power steering, 200 HP, air-conditioning and Hydrolic brakes...shute, get a cup-hoder, too..and TV....
IF you want one that will out-last your life-time, let you enjoy the "Out-of-Doors", be owner-serviceable and maybe require a some level of operator Competence..get one the Meant to be used by such a person and save yourself $45,000.oo
!!!!!!!!!
You don't need any "Live hydrolics", power steering, hydrolic prakes, cab, cup-holder OR Over-running do-dad on the PTO...assuming you can sit in the seat and stay awake...
I cannot believe a suggestion of 150 HP for 23 acres...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My gosh, some people mow that much with a garden tractor...these old tractors were designed for Farming..that means, used all day for many days in a row, with many years of reliable use between re-builds..and nearly re-buildable indefitely..
Maybe you should go to some "farm-days" shows and watch different equipment operating...
Many will be glad to talk to you and explain the pros and cons of their choice of equipment..
Join a local Antique motor or tractor club..dues are minimal and the information available there is Priceless...!!
I personally do prefer a tractor that can handle a 6' Bush Hog.. that gives you 5' for cutting and one foot, to over-lap the wheel-tramped grass that it missed on the previous pass..my JD "B" does this in great fashion..the 8N would probably be best with a 5' especially if mounted on the 3-point..(they ARE light in the front)..
YOU have the obligation to KNOW how to safely operate your equipment, NO one else...
Always BE CAREFUL..!!!
Makes no difference what you operate...!
Ron.
 
An 841 is a way better tractor.Its not even a comparison.Bad part on that deal is that its an ancient diesel which smokes some probably.Some people dont mind it some do.The 841 is a 3 bottom plow tractor,the other one is a 2 bottom plow tractor.For 27 acres it will take the 841 about half the time to plow it as the N.The N can maybe get 5 acres a day or a little more depending on when you start and stop.The 841 will do 10 or more easy.So for the 841 about 3 days or less to plow 27 acres,nearly 6 for the N series.841 will bush hog a lot safer than N series,and you can mow with as big of a mowing machine you can find,7 ft,8ft bar.841 will play with a 8 ft 3 point double disc.An N series will pull an 8ft double disc a gear slower and not as deep.You could disc your whole 27 acres once in a good long day,and could even pull a 10 ft disc,maybe 12 ft pull type disc because you can hook up hydraulics to the 841 easier.An 841 is just about twice the tractor as the N series.A N series tractor will do the job and take care of the 27 acres with no problem,but the 841 will do it easier and faster,and maybe last longer if its in good shape when you get it.Ns are tough,but they are old technology compared to an 841.You might also look around for a Massey Fergusen,and there are others,Oliver,Allis Chalmers,International,John Deere,that make comparable tractors to the 841.If you can get a good deal on any of them with a 3 point hitch its way better than the ones that dont have it.About all of the late 50s early 60s had a chance of having power steering,but a Ford like that turns fairly easy compared to an N series.Also if you can find a TO 20 or 30 Fergusen they are good too.I kind of like them a little better than an N series because they have an overhead valve Continental motor,and besides that are nearly the same tractor.The TO 20,30 Fergusen may have a little more horsepower,but from the motor back I cant tell what the difference is,if any.TO 20,30 Fergusens that I ever saw had a 4 speed transmission.
 
Ask more questions after you look at the 841.A tractor is something you want to look over real good before you buy it,let it run a good while,shut it off,then try to start it again.Check the radiator after the temp comes up and see if theres a lot of foam or its boiling over or anything,or smoking bad.Lots of things can be fixed,but it can get expensive. Lots of things to consider.How are the tires?You might want to look around quite a bit before you buy either one.
 
I'm going to stay out of the quips and add a couple items that I know from working at a Ford tractor dealership as a young pup starting out happen to be I think an 800 diesel and as I remember that engine had a mechanical crankshaft balancer that was prone to worn bushings in the gear mechanism over time which caused a nasty knock which causes immediate panic it is somewhat easy to fix if caught early if let go it really gets nasty when it lets go so listen for a definite knock and it is very audible even over the diesel rattle. I don't think you mentioned if it was a Select-O-Speed or not but the SOS is pretty durable in that tractor. As far as the 8N goes should be Ok but if you are going to use it for bushog work most definitely you'll need to add an overunning clutch or you'll wind up in a fencerow or pond. Most Woods or bushog dealers sell them or maybe even TSC. Can't help you much on the other questions that was almost 40 years ago. Good Luck
 
Okay I agree to a point. Use a 8n with three point hitch equipment, and its a good tractor. Hook a 8n up to a two fourteen pull type plow and I doubt if you would get the plow fully in the ground. Now I know i'm going to hear " we use to pull two fourteens all the time" All I can say is not in my country. S.E. Iowa. Plenty of power Not enough traction Bernie Steffen
 
LOL
But I agree. Though they were sold as a 2-14 tractor you'd better have light soil or else been turning the same land for a long time if you want to pull two 14s with one. In our stoney, claey soil my 2n worked good with a 1-16. It might have pulled 2 12s but I could never find one. It was lousy pulling 2 14s.
 
The kingpins or sleeves in the front end are shot, drive over a little rough ground and observe, I would also think the steering mechanism needs refurbishing.

I'm a Fordson Major/Super man so if you get one of those then ,as the fairy tales end, "you will live happily ever after."
 
The 3pt hitch factor was a mute point until Ferguson's patient ran out in the mid 1950's and Ford stole that by the way.
At the time the 3pt hitch was seen a just another way to waste money on some propitiatory hitch that may fall by the wayside. Little different than the old VHS vs. beta or the Blueray vs. HD-DVD battles. Farmers sat back and waited to see who won before purchasing.
The 1st tractors from the 1920's to 1950's were used with the farmers original horse drawn equipment.
To save money and since tractors didn't pull any more at the time than a good two,three or four hitch of horses. The hitch was just cut short to attach to the tractor's drawbar.
Trail type ploughs, seed drills, disks, cultivators, harrows, rollers. Don't see a three point hitch advantage back then.
Last time I looked horses didn't have a three point hitch.
The 3pt hitch didn't become popular until the 1960's to be used with semi-mount ploughs. Long after the era of the Ford N series.
The N Ford has it's place in history, but so does the Model T and Model A. It's a warmed over design introduced in 1939.
The N series are still around just due to the sheer number built for such a low price.
A Ford N series as being versatile and able to operate various types of equipment?
It's a low powered gas engine with a 3 or 4 speed gearbox. No remotes hydraulics to run a log splitter or turn a snowblower chute. A too fast reverse gear. Transmission driven pto puts N's in the ditch or pond when bush hogging. They don't even have a drawbar unless retrofitted, and few are. People use the mickey mouse drawbar between the lower links and flip the tractor when they lift the hitch for more pull. No diff lock and poor brakes. No power steering and no good for mounting a loader.
The N series belongs in collections, museums, antique parades and 3pt ploughing/cultivating garden plots.
 
I have an 841 it has about 1/4 turn slop in the steering wheel. With no power steering it seems to be expected. An 841 will serve you proud on 23 acres and parts are cheap and plentiful. I love my 'Daisy' named after Daisy Duke-I love to ride her....
 
I know I said it was a 2 plow tractor and Im no expert on those old Fords.I wore out a TO 20 Fergusen though. It had been souped up with the same size tires as a NAA and it pulled 2 14s in gumbo,but was a lot happier with a 8ft double disc in the gumbo.I dont know how much difference the horsepower is,but it wasnt a lot more than a 8n.I never saw anybody that had,or tried to farm with one of the ones that had a 3 speed transmission.I remember going to auctions or implement dealers with my dad and if it had a 3 speed transmission he was already walking down the line,didnt need to look at it any more.He had one of those before I was born,but from what I remember wasnt all that happy with it,and by the time I was born all he had was a NAA and TO20 which is a lot better,but still not a 841.I have ran a 1952 8n pulling a roller,wagons,a blade,and I even plowed a garden with it with 2 14s.I think a newer 8n would maybe pull a 2 bottom plow alright in 2nd gear,for sure in low.I dont know about in gumbo.If you have fluid in the tires,and the size tires that a NAA has,a good motor,maybe souped up if you can do that to one of them,I think it will plow with a 2 bottom plow.I dont know about all day,or how hot it will get.I have not ever seen a one bottom plow for one of those,not that I really ever looked,but everybody that had one I know had a 2 14 plow for it.The more I think about it,and with what you would have to put up with,the 841 looks like the best idea by far to try and farm with.A 9n or 2n would probably not work at all because of the 3 speed transmission and the 8n would be rough considering you could have an 841.Back in the days before an 841 a 9n or 2n or 8n would be quite a bit better than horses to me if I had to do it,but there is not much comparison to a 841.I think I would rather have a gas 841 if it was me looking for a tractor.A lot depends on what you want to do with your farm,mowing is a lot easier on the machinery than plowing.
 
Don't know where you are from but when you are trying to skid a log out of the bush or are brush hogging or tractor has a front end loader,or where it is not a simple rectangual field live hydraulics and power steering are nice. Don't ahve power steering though. Live hydraulics and power steering have been around 60 years at least here in Canada.
 

I know, they are "nice", but...I guess I may be giving away my age..But..
When that was all we had..we didn't have any problems operating a Bush Hog, Baler..or anything else with no "Live PTO", live hydrolics and power steering was certainly never a consideration...!!

Once you get used to operating non-live PTO, you learn how to slip in and out of gear, even shift gears (slipping gears) like an automatic transmission..
I definitely prefer NOT to use an over-running clutch on the PTO, as I WANT to be able to FORCE the PTO-driven equipment to STOP, if I need to...
( I demand that the brakes WORK, you see)..!!

I realize, most are accustomed to live PTO and Hydrolics and they are fine additions..
What seems to not be realized is that those "Older" tractors can and will "do the job well".!!
I can do just as well with my JD "B" as I can with the JD 520, or AC WD-45.
Years ago, my neighbor Bush Hogged all over with his 9N and 5' Bush Hog..seems he had a weight on the front..
Some have even told me those "Red Blobs" work OK too..!! (never had one, but I drove one ONCE).!
Plenty to choose from and the prices are very good..just don't buy any "Pig in-a-Poke"..make sure it is a "Good One"..!!


What you must have is a properly operational piece of equipment and become fully AWARE of how to operate it...
 
Thanks for all the "legit" (sans thurlow) feedback. I found an 8N near Dallas that runs strong, no smoke, solid steering and hydraulics, and cleaned up (sanded, primed, painted) to the point that I should not have to worry about protecting steel, tin, or running gear for some time. All rubber is good. It will be kept inside Coverall once I get it up to the property.

Have noted of the safety issues mentioned. Will be adding a (close to original) front bumper so I can add weights to the front. (Pulled the front end off the ground in 3rd, and will never touch 4th gear again!) Do not want to die until I walk all 3 daughters down the isle.

I think this rig will work fine. If any one can recommend a good source for locating a close to original front bumper, 12V headlights, and a new boot for the shifter, I would appreciate your continued feedback.

Thanks again! Ed Luskey
 
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