OT - Building a house

DR Darren

Member
I am building a house using a general contractor and was wondering for anyone who build a house, is there anything you learned from the process you wish you would have known before you started the whole project?
 
Yes, I built my home in 1999.

I wish I had bought home plans instead of designing my own home, a little cheaper plus aestectics (spelling error)

I wish I had put in a basement, I have a crawl space.

I wish I had bought land in a lower tax area, too high where I am, the wife wanted this school district.

What state/area are you building in?
 
Never Ever put a humidifer on a heat pump in the attic. Knew a fellow that had one there and went to the beach on vacation. Came home a week later and the ceilingand insulation was in the living room floor. Water was running out the door. Also if you install a heat pump or ac unit in the attic please use an emergency drain pan under it. Pipe it out with a seperate drain line also.
 
Open your email so we can talk back & forth. I am a retired new home & remodel contractor & will answer any question that you have. Gerald
 
1.) A basement 2.) Tyvek house wrapp. 3.) good windows & doors. 4.) Interior masonary chimney. 5.) Attached garage w/walk out basement leading into garage. 6.) Hot water heat. 7.) 200 AMP service w/40 breaker box. 8.) Should you be going with a metal roof, there is a new type of solar panel comming out. It is a 1/4 inch flat matt like solar panel which sticks on to metal roofs. You can walk all over it. The spaces between the standing seams/ribs, MUST be no less than 15-1/2 inches, and completly flat. No ribs, beeds, etc. 9.) icenning insulation. I can go on and on, but don't have the time. A new code just went into effect. When building a new home, a sprinkle system must be installed should you go three floors or more.
 
built my own, a long with working as a carpentor for a few years. Don't cut corners on windows. make sure everything is sealed up good. where the walls come together.Keep contact with the outside wall to a min. Use a good blue print. if the house shifts because loading is wrong. you never keep the fixed and the doors will nor fit tight. like one person stated. keep in mind. things like the hot water heater will leak someday. the heating will need work. put things where they can be worked on, and if a leak happens, no dammage is done. Might want to think about putting a fire sprinkler in the landry room. The Clothes dryer is the most dangerous appliance in your house. One last thing go and look at houses your contractor has built.
 
There can be a lot of turf to cover when in comes to building construction.

1.) Contract & Documents, make sure you have a good contract AIA format and or similar, make sure the scope of work is clear and make sure the provisions for changes to the contract, (change orders) are specified including unit prices. Make sure the designer has produced a good set of drawings and specifications, minimizing loose ends, addendums, clarifications.

2.) Schedule, for a residential home it does not have to be complicated, but should have the major milestones in the overall work breakdown structure, basically a list of work activities, and durations, calculated along a critical path, of predecessor and successor activities, with other non critical path activities concurrent or off to the side, ones that don't effect the overall schedule. Can be real simple but it should be part of the contract documents, allowing an owner to enforce it.

3.) Insurance, make sure all of that is current and you are indemnified, hold harmless, covered where needed, usually typical for most jobs.

4.) Payments - this is very important, especially with residential jobs, I have seen a lot of contractors do people in with oddball payment arrangements. In the contract it should be stated that you will use AIA format, percentage of completion method, with retainage, you pay as the job progresses and work is completed, and is accepted. Retainage is held out of each progress payment, until substantial completion, you get full certificate of occupancy etc. It gives an owner leverage, job is completed and you have unacceptable work, warranty issues, numerous punchlist items not completed etc. It is released when the job is totally accepted and complete. You can arrange to pay for materials if delivered to the site, major materials, equipment etc. but you hold back on the labor until complete and accepted, 2 words to remember, complete and accepted ! Remember, you control the money, not the contractor, cash is king and is also leverage, don't ever engage in shoddy payment arrangements, contractors, especially in today's financial environment will try to front load the job, can't blame em, but percentage of completion payment method is the safest bet, they submit a monthly payment requisition (or bi-monthly in some instances), you or the owners rep, construction manager, reviews and pays for what is complete, in compliance with the drawings and specifications, applicable codes and is acceptable work, if not, you cut the value of that out of the pay req. and tell the contractor right up front before he receives payment where and why the pay req. was reduced, tends to go over better that way. I make this point because I have seen lots of people get taken for many thousands of dollars, because they just don't know how to play the game with contractors. The ultimate goal for a contractor is to complete the job and get paid, but so many of them fail to perform or talk people into very risky payment scenarios, don't do it !

5.) Coordination of the trades, this is where your project schedule is a valuable tool, apply sound logic to the construction activities up front, have to dig a hole before you pour footers, have to pour footers before you pour the fdn. walls, etc. It gets more involved once you are framed and have multi trades on site, it is a good idea to have reviewed the plans and the job to afford yourself some time up front to plan things out, so there is continuity of the work, making a transition from one trade to another without conflict, all jobs have it, best you can do is minimize it.

6.) Changes- you really need to be satisfied with the design, the more you change, and the later you change things, the more it will cost you, Always plan for future use, say when pouring a slab, an extra conduit or pipe stub up, or a hole in the foundation, for some future use, good to think in terms, well I may not be able to afford it now, but later I will, plan ahead for things you might want, could be anything, but it pays to coordinate into the job up front no matter what it is.

7.) Keep an eye on the job, stay in tune with what is going on, if there are problems, sort em out, if design related, get an R.F.I. (request for information) off to the architect/engineer, and document the results, cost add, cost delete or maybe its no additional cost, all part of the game, you don't want a pile of claims by a contractor at the end, this is why it is a good idea to have a well written and defined scope of work within the contract.

There's a lot more to cover than I can put here, if you have a good responsible contractor it is a big help, and what I have suggested may sound a bit regimented and strict, but sometimes it has to be done like that to insure the job goes well, I have seen numerous jobs that have gone sour in my career and owners who are taken by bad contractors. The contract should have a failure to perform clause and remedial action that can be taken, on big jobs contractors have to submit a performance bond, if they fail to perform they can be defaulted and the bonding company is liable to complete the building, your lending provider usually has stipulations for things like that, lot of people have been stuck with uncompleted buildings. The default process is a last resort, can be a drawn out process like any dispute resolution situation, but if that contractor ever goes out of business in the midst of construction, you need to be covered, more so on big jobs, though principle is the same for the smallest of jobs.
 
Oh, I have learned so much it would fill this page.

1. A big #1 Geothermal heat/ac. I did forced air. Probably hands down the best money I spent. I would still look at wood as a backup. Power does go out now and then. And the geo units draw a quite a bit of juice.

2. Insulation/sealing. Everything is caulked and sealed, I mean everything. My house is tight. Windows, etc.

3. Lots of south facing windows, pick up winter sun. Big overhangs to shield summer sun.

I am Michigan so maybe you heat is not quite as big a deal as here.

I could go on an on. All of the above apply no matter what style house you build. And with the way energy prices fluctuate why not save on your heat/ac bill.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 01:52:25 02/05/09) I am building a house using a general contractor and was wondering for anyone who build a house, is there anything you learned from the process you wish you would have known before you started the whole project?

Well for one thing, don't open your email. I and probably others would be interested in what Gerald and others have to say. Kinda what this forum is about is a sharing of expertise.

Don't know what stage you are in but use moisture barriers and insulation under and behind any buried concrete.

Good luck.
 

I'm near you, in Spartanburg county.

Don't build too close to the highway. If possible, locate the house on the lot so the land slopes away on all sides for drainage. Don't build on a concrete pad. SIL who is in the pest control business says pad home owners make good customers for pest control. Houses on pads probably work fine is a colder, drier climate.

Have as simple a roof line as you can manage. That will make it less likely to leak and and will be cheaper to reroof in the future.

Don't skimp on materials. For example, solid panel doors will give more satisfaction than the flat hollow doors. Try to have as little outside trim that needs painting as possible. Provide for the possibility of wood heat.

If you are going to have a septic tank, locate the leach field away from trees. Locate the house so trees are unlikely to fall on it.

Don't have carpeted floors. They get dirty, especially if you have pets in the house, wear out, and have to be replaced. I realize everyone won't agree with me on this. If you have a hall, make it wide enough to move furniture along it. 4 feet wide has worked for us.

Use good storm windows and put in plenty of insulation.

Attend county council meetings and scream bloody murder if they add on a hospitality sales tax or a road maintenance fee. It's probably too late to object to some of the ridiculous regulations concerning home construction.

Give some thought to wireing the house for telephones, cable, and tv.

KEH
 
We got a trustworthy contractor first of all.
I planned how I wanted it wired.
Had the receptacles in the living room and bedrooms split wired. Meaning half of each receptacle was hot all the time for TV,VCR,etc. The other have of each receptacle was wired to switch for lamps. It's nice in the bedrooms when you walk in the door and flip the wall switch on and the lamp next to the bed comes on. When I get in bed I just reach over and turn the lamp off. When I get up I just reverse the process. I'm never walking in the dark this way. Looking back I would have had every room wired like this.

Every entrance/exit to any/every room should have a light switch. We have 4 light switches on different walls for our living room.

I Wish I would have put in light switches at the kitchen sink for both lights in the kitchen. It would keep me from having to walk to another wall to turn on or turn off the kitchen lights when doing dishes at the sink. We do have a recessed light above the sink and there is no need to have the other kitchen lights on.

I'm now contemplating on putting in a small seperate circuit just for lights hooked up to a generator for when the power goes out. It would not be hooked to my main service at all anywhere.

I hope this may help you!
 
Our foundation contractor didn't bother cleaning the mud from a rain off the footers before putting the wall forms in and pouring the concrete, leaving numerous voids between the wall and the footers. He also forgot to allow for the floor when he framed a walk in door, leaving us with a door that is 4" short of standard. He also forgot to allow for the floor when he poured the walls, so the walls are 4" short.

That is, he measured from the footers without allowing for the floor.
 
my sister is building a new home, contractor built home. quatoed price. she said the one thing she should have done was to have made them breake down the quote so she would have know what the price was for flooring and carpet. said she picked out flooring and carpet then was told that what she had picked was above what had been figered for carpet and flooring. of coures quate was made in jan 2008 and price had changed in dec 2008. so make sure you have the quote broken down into where and what the price is.
 
this aint gonna help you but ............
built mine 25 years ago & did the contractor thing myself ( hired the trades )
best advice build 2 houses after first one build second one minus the mistakes you made on the first good luck with the build
bob
 
There have been a lot of good comments on this thread so far. A very common mistake is actually over insulating a home. A house needs to breathe a little. Make sure the home wrap (tyvek or similar) is installed properly. Same goes for doors and windows. As others have also said, keep the humidity in check. A reputable contractor might cost a little more but will save you money in the long run.
 
Sprinkler system in the whole house. Some talk of this being a must in the future.

After helping clean up after the tornadoes in Iowa, these would be good ideas.

A poured concrete wall

Anchor bolts in the wet concrete

Full plywood on the entire house for storms

full depth poured wall under the front steps for a storm shelter, Pored concrete top, inward swinging door. And a emergency vent hole.
 
We used 2 x 6s @ 24" on center for the exterior walls with 6" batts. The trusses fall above a stud rather than in between when 16" o.c. Get "energy heels" on the trusses. They stand a bit taller at the wall so you can get ventilation. We put 12" batts in the roof. We had a contractor rough it in and subbed out what I couldn't do. I wish I had put the wiring on the print--makes it easier to trace an electrical problem. Buy the best windows you can afford.

We looked at geo-thermal but couldn't justify the cost. With an open loop water is pumped into a pond or into a ditch. With mostly sand, a pond was out. A closed system would have required lots of tubing and estimated at around $25,000.

Take pictures as the build progresses. Nice to look back and see it all come together.

Larry in Michigan
 
A few more comments:

1. Extras like, Hidden gun storage is cheap--Do it.

2. Dont skimp on Windows, I bought cheap one and I will likely have to buy new ones in 5 years, the brand I bought are Great Lakes Window--Not real good. I should have bought A higher grade. I also had a hard time buying some items cause the economy was so good 10 years ago.

3. Dont have all wood exterior siding--I put up T1-11 on my entire house--What a 8itch for painting. I should have put Vinyl siding on the whole house.
 
Yep windows and orient your house South to for the best sun for heat.Can make a big difference..........
Sunny
 
Joe, I'd be interested in the measurements of your fireplace and chimney to accomodate your Christmas eve visitor.
 
Along those same lines, if you have small kids, have a switch at the top of the stairs that shuts off the lights in the basement. (not just the stairway light)

Cause of great stress in my house...
 
I did mine 5 years ago, a few things I learned...1) don't go cheap on systems like wiring. Some of the wire used in my house was 14/2...go 12/2 and make all outlets 20 amp instead of 15. Use copper pipe for your water supply system.
2) Be sure to build big enough...after we built, we realized it would be nice to have about another 100-200 square feet for a more proper dining room. What looks large enough on paper is not always correct.
 
The only thing I would add is to consider installing the ducting for central vacum.
It's rather easy when building from new, a nightmare to do at a later date.
 
I have a personal preference for wood stoves (if used) over fireplaces. If the fireplace is installed in the wrong place, may be the wrong place 5-10 years later, you have this monstrosity that just doesn't get up and move. Wood stove is better heat and has more options of use and placement.
Prewire for Cable, Usb, and telephone in at least two places per room.
 
Consider Powder coated standing seam metal roof. Snow slides off, leaks are very rare, and they last a long time. JimN
 
Get all the changes in [b:4b766e99f0]WRITING![/b:4b766e99f0] Signed by all parties. It does not matter how good of friends you are or how long you've known them, get it in writing and do NOT take their word for it.

Spend the money for upgraded plumbing fixtures, we went with Moen and are very happy that we did. Also, spend the money for high quality ceiling fans. The contractor put in Harbor Breeze and 4 out 5 have died by making a horrible racket and smelling hot. We had 2 replaced with new HB fans and those only lasted a couple months as well. I have replaced 3 out of the 5 with Hunter now and they are quieter than whisper quiet and don't wobble, either!

Spend the money for extra insulation! If you plan on trying to sleep while someone else is in the kitchen or living room watching TV, check into sound insulation. For some reason the sound goes right through the walls in our house...

Make sure the house is wired for cable TV, internet, phone lines, alarm system, etc. It is much, much cheaper to do it now than later. Might want to check into the cost of fiber-optic...

Make sure there are outlets where you need them, too - again much cheaper now than later.

[u:4b766e99f0][i:4b766e99f0][b:4b766e99f0]ABOVE ALL ELSE - BE THERE WHEN THEY ARE BUILDING! [/b:4b766e99f0][/i:4b766e99f0][/u:4b766e99f0]Make sure they are actually following the plan and/or changes you've made to the plan. There were several instances where if I hadn't showed up that day our house would have had doors in the wrong place, appliances in the wrong place, etc.

No matter how hard you try, once you move in you will think of changes.

Here's our house, completed January of 08:
100_9573.jpg
 
Few other things.

Fire sprinklers as mentioned below. At least in the basement for sure which should also be sloped so it will drain in a leak, drain backup, or sump pump failure. Water warning on your sump pump. Have a backup available when it is raining for 3 days and you lose power or pump quits at 2 am with water pouring into the sump. Put the heater/a/c, water heater, softner, etc in the basement utility room situated so any leaks will go straight to the sump first(a little extra slope there).

Carbon monoxide detectors. Smoke/fire detectors in all rooms, hallways, escape routes, utility room and above all elec. panels. Fires usually start around a panel so you want the quickest warning. Same for escape routes if a fire starts in the basement stairwell or hallway, etc. the quickest warning is needed and not have to wait till the smoke gets to the bedroom which may be too late.

Escape windows in all rooms of basement. They are cheap and add a lot of light. In stead of funky concrete window escape wells with a funky ladder, start with the gravel bottom and use stackable landscape stones in an oval shaped well to make a nice stair step going out. Do a few levels/steps with additional space behind the stone to add some flowers or plants on each level. Nice to view from the basement and functional.

Run conduit for all phone, tv, stereo speaker, cable, satelite runs. A few years from now all the cable will be scrapped and we will be running fiber optic and then some other new stuff when invented.

Can't hurt to have plenty of elec outlets. Every bedroom and living room will be rearranged and then you won't have the night stand plugins, headboard plugin, and tv plugins with cable connections on the right wall. At least 3 per wall with a tv/phone connection per wall. With 900 kitchen appliances and cell phone and camera battery chargers, we don't have enough kitchen plugins. All these bulky transformers take up plugin space. Use plenty of plugins in the computer room.

Put in plenty of enclosed shelving and particularly in the basement.

Gotta quit for now, just added another million to your project.
 
I built mine 8 years ago. Sounds like you are doing it the same way I did with a general contractor.

1. Don't cut corners. A couple of hundred dollars now can turn into thousands later.

2. Don't pay for anything until you have seen and checked out the job. I made that mistake with two sub-contractors.

3. If your agreement with the general contractor allows, pay for all your materials yourself. That way you know everything is paid for and you won't have any liens put on your house later. A friend didn't do this and the sub took the money and he ended up paying twice for some materials.

4. Include all standard features in your house. This will affect resale. Example, one friend did not want a dishwasher. They just don't like them. But they did run the plumbing and electrical and designed a removable cabinet to add one later. Having one does affect the resale price.

5. Do everything you can yourself but don't overcommit. If you try to do too much you will slow things down and end up costing more than you save. I was only able to do cleanup and a couple other smaller jobs. But I don't have bricks and trash buried in my flower beds and yard or mud and sawdust under my flooring. I also don't have scratched windows from mortar sand being rubbed on them during cleanup.

5. Take lots of pictures and video of everything before the walls are closed in. You may need to know where a wire or pipe is located at a later date.

6. Landscape yourself. Not only will you save money, but you will get exactly what you want. This is not rocket science.

7. Visit lots of building sites. You will get lots of good ideas.

8. Take nothing for granted. Spell out the details on everything.

9. My best idea gained from looking at other jobsites was hooking two 40 gallon gas waterheaters in series. I don't run out of hot water even with three women and three full bathrooms in one house.

slim
 
I built mine 8 years ago. Sounds like you are doing it the same way I did with a general contractor.

1. Don't cut corners. A couple of hundred dollars now can turn into thousands later.

2. Don't pay for anything until you have seen and checked out the job. I made that mistake with two sub-contractors.

3. If your agreement with the general contractor allows, pay for all your materials yourself. That way you know everything is paid for and you won't have any liens put on your house later. A friend didn't do this and the sub took the money and he ended up paying twice for some materials.

4. Include all standard features in your house. This will affect resale. Example, one friend did not want a dishwasher. They just don't like them. But they did run the plumbing and electrical and designed a removable cabinet to add one later. Having one does affect the resale price.

5. Do everything you can yourself but don't overcommit. If you try to do too much you will slow things down and end up costing more than you save. I was only able to do cleanup and a couple other smaller jobs. But I don't have bricks and trash buried in my flower beds and yard or mud and sawdust under my flooring. I also don't have scratched windows from mortar sand being rubbed on them during cleanup.

5. Take lots of pictures and video of everything before the walls are closed in. You may need to know where a wire or pipe is located at a later date.

6. Landscape yourself. Not only will you save money, but you will get exactly what you want. This is not rocket science.

7. Visit lots of building sites. You will get lots of good ideas.

8. Take nothing for granted. Spell out the details on everything.

9. My best idea gained from looking at other jobsites was hooking two 40 gallon gas waterheaters in series. I don't run out of hot water even with three women and three full bathrooms in one house.

slim
 
They write whole books about this, but I'll hit a couple of my favorites. I've been building custom homes for about 10 years.
Get everything in writing. Look into ICF for the foundation, or the whole house. Or, SIP panels are a great option. You'll spend a little extra to build the house, but the buy back from saved heating and cooling bills makes it well worth it. Remember, energy is not likely to get any cheaper in the future. SIP houses go up faster that conventional framing too. Stick framing is an antiquated system, that has stuck around just because "thats the way my daddy did it" new tecnology is the way to go in home building. Depending on your climate, consider solar for hot water and or heating. Lots of states have tax incentive programs. Spend the money for good doors and plumbing fixtures, but if top of the line lighting is not in the budget, light fixtures are easy enough to swap out later. Quality windows are good investiment... I'll stop there, so I can go get something done today.

Good luck.

Ben
 
Build the house with full bathroom and shower down stairs. Make provision for 1 room to be turned in to a bed room if needed. Make all door ways handicapped assessable IE 36" This way if some one in you household becomes handicapped or wheel chair bound you have a stand up shower and a convertible room to be used as a bed room.You will not be forced to move or move in your golden years if you do not want.
 
What I learned in building a house....

1. If you are married, go ahead and get divorced first.

2. If you arent married, get married before building otherwise it will be built wrong.

3. Double the cost estimate of everything

On a more serious note, I've built more than one house. Generally speaking, Id rather buy one already built than build one. Its cheaper and less stressful. With that said, I am working on starting to build one now. I'm going 3 sides underground, poured concrete exterior walls, and metal roofing.
 
1. Breezeway connecting house to attached garage. 1/2 is entryway accessed by front door, the other half leads to garage and is walled/doored off to be a coat room. Company knocks? Close the door on the boot room mess and come on in. If possible, one step up from garage to boot room keeps dirt in garage, another step up from entryway to house does the same again. We didn't design it this way, the elevations just evolved, but it sure works slick.

2. Wasn't ever too keen on built in vacuums. couldn't see the advantage of dragging around 20 ft of hose and a power head as opposed to a vacuum cleaner? Do, however, really like the kick-switch activated baseboard units in rooms with hardwood floors that you sweep dust into.

3. Contractor talked us into geotherm as an add on after the build had begun. The cost savings is as good or better than promised, however, the fan runs often and we had to add on a humdifier.
 
Gun-Guru was the only one that really came out and said basement. Go foller a plumber around crawl spaces for a week and see if you wanna do that when yer 50 or so..... or pay somebody to do it....
Set the kitchen sink sideways so the water lines don't run up the outside walls - i.e. make it like a bar.
and - make nice big closets - big enough to throw stuff out of w-o banging elbows.
 

Use glue and screws to fasten the subfloor to the joists, not nails. Prevents squeaks. In my house, every room that I've ripped up carpeting or flooring in, I've gone over the subfloor with a screw gun and I have ZERO squeaks in those rooms.
 
Watch the plumbers. They will still cut out the top two thirds of a wood I beam to install a tub drain, which means the wood I beam is no longer capable of carrying its load.

I couldn't beleive it when I found it done on my house. I suppose they thought I would never get all the way back into the crawl space to see it.
 
Something else to do.

****Get a book and educate yourself on building codes.

Like: Crawl spaces in my area are minimum 32" deep (4 courses of block)----Electrical--dedicated circuits for heavy applicances---Plumbing---No PVC for pressure lines, use heavy copper tubing, dont put sinks on outside walls of the home. Put in plenty of cleanouts. Rough framing--have the windows framed for standard window sizes, have the carpentry crew use large enough wood beams for the headers over doors/windows, Be at the job site everyday while the framers are putting up the house---Lots of heavy drinkers in this trade as I have discovered and will show up to the site real hungover or drunk.

Put in an extra heat source like wood stove in addition to the main forced air furnace. Hire out the insulation to a professional-- in and out in 2 days and they can use a spray in polystyrene that gives better R-value then the pink stuff.
I will think of more later.
 
again thanks all, makes me feel better i had thought about and will be incorporating most of what everyone mentioned. the one thing i didnt think of was a basement entrance from the garage, will have ot think about that one. the other our architect did bring up was the breeze way/entrance that attached the garage to the main house, but the person on here mentioned different elevations from the garage to the breeze way to the house, i like that idea.

i must have surprised the contractor cause i said the same thing most of you said. i want to put quality in the building envelope, windows and doors.

i plan on using SIP for walls, poured concrete basement, and high quality doors and windows with what i hope to use is a standing seam metal roo for atleast a 40 year shingle.

again thanks all, if and when i finish teh house i will post it here.
 

If I was designing one, I'd also build a small living room at the front door. The only purpose is for company to come over, otherwise don't pile it up with your tractor magazines and newspapers. Closed off so they can't see your kitchen or get access to your bedrooms and family room. Maybe have close access to a bathroom for company without having to look at your dirty dishes. Then you and the kids can play in the family room with the big screen tv. Unless you are retired or have a maid. Everyone in our house works or goes to school all day, then we have evening activities, then we have weekend activities, then we are on the computer. About the time you don't have time to pick stuff up is when the jehovah's witnesses or whoever shows up. Computer rooms get cluttered up unless you have lots of bookcases in them.
 
A bunch of great advice from others. I built mine 12 years ago. A couple things I'd change. Make the laundry room bigger and put it near an exterior wall for a shorter dryer vent. Add outlets even where you are sure you won't need one. My son has both hot and cold water plumbed to an exterior faucet for washing cars. I dont but that sound pretty awesome to me. Build your shop first! All the work I did to save money on the house originally to afford the shop went for an upgraded carpet! Took 2 years to get phase one of the shop built. Actually not many regrets. I'm now on shop phase 4 with not one issue about it from my wife. Guess the upgraded carpet paid off. Bad news though I'm getting hints that it needs to be replace....
 

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