I guess I would go to jail.

Kelly C

Well-known Member
I was watching Fox news. They were talking about a guy who shot a intruder as he was trying to enter their home.
Colorado is not charging the home owner with as crime. As it should be.

I guess the 22 year old guy that got shot was drunk and thought it was his house.
He banged on the front door. Then went to the back door and pounded on it for a long time. Yelling asking to be let in.
He then broke the window with his elbow and tried to unlock the door.
The home owner then shot him in the chest 2 times killing him.

This stupid woman was on saying. There was no intend by this man to do harm. he was just drunk and was at the wrong house. These people should be procecuted.

I said what!!!! I tell you what. Some one come to my house and break a window tring to get in. They are going down.
I might go to jail but the safety of my family is whats important.
 
Paw in Law always said if he had to shoot somebody he would make sure he was the only one left to testify. This 22 year olds Mother will likely be screaming bloody murder wanting to sue somebody when the real crime is probably the upbringing this kid did not get.
 
100% agree on that one. Only thing they can pull on that guy was that it was self defense. The guy who shot him didn't know he was drunk or if he was armed or not.
 
As I showed the wife how to use the revolvers. I told her if you ever have to pull the trigger on some one.
Just keep pulling it until empty. All the questions are the same at one shot or 6. The 6 makes sure they dont have a say in it.
 
I agree but the sad part of it would be the fact that your family would then have no one to look after them while you're in jail................

Best to save the "head shots" for those who you can PROVE intended to kill you or your family.............better off to just "wing" the drunk guy if he ever happens to climb through your window............
 
As drunk as he was, driving and not even know where he was, it is lucky he didn't kill someone before he got there. Now this is far fetched but not impossible with our abundant lawyers. What if he was just confronted by the home owner and the guy left and killed someone getting home. Some DA's would put some blame on the home owner for letting him get in his truck being that drunk.
 
I think it was last winter or the winter before.
In southern Minnesota.
Some drugged out guy ran his truck into the ditch.
He then went to a farm house trying to steal thier truck. He went into the house and was confronted by the home owner who had a fire arm.

He wrestled the gun away from the man. Killed him and then killed his wife and also shot the son.
He took the keys and took the truck.

I am sure that home owner tried to Act rationaly in a irational situation. It cost him his life and his families life.

If some makes me fear for the safety of my family. The only winging going on is if I miss my aim.

I will never brandish a fire arm to intimadate,wing or to convince. If it comes out it comes out to be used and will be used to leathal effect.
 
IF that happened here if he still had his arm after it came thru the window and if he did make it in the back door and what ever was left then he would get shot to put him out of misery when the BOY's were done with him. They are a wee bit faster then i am getting down stairs from the bedroom then i am and for some reason they have less scene of humor then i do.
 
had a young man try to enter my home and shot AT him and when the law did show up, I was the one that was in trouble apperantly you can NOT protect property in michigan!!
 
It appears to me that the homeowner should have a case against the estate of the drunk to cover all property damages including the cleanup and repair costs attributed to the drunk trying to enter the residence.

Also the property owner should have the right to sue any living relative for punitive damages and mental anguish caused by their drunk relative. After all don't relatives now sue shooters for pain and suffering caused by the loss of one of their beloved relatives? It should work the other way around too.
 
If no one knew he went to your farm, remember bleach cleans everything up pretty good. And you can always wonder why the soybeans do really well in one spot of the field.
 
Colorado has had castle doctrine law quite awhile- better than 10 years I think. home defender cannot be sued for defense of home or charged criminally unless grand jury hear something about intent of home defender with false reporting- as the deceased was shot at bar a mile away and brought to home for coverup of offsite shooting. First person to take advantage of no sueing clause got cussed out by lawyer while recorder was on - lawyer said didn"t matter if deceased was a crook intent on robbing or killing, the lawyers were not getting money from insurance companies that wrote home owners liability policies. Next year the home owner shot another one trying to break in and threatening, records indicated association with first home invader and lawyer. Minnesota doesn"t have castle doctrine law yet? I think there was some discussion 2 years back in the state legislator about adding it to concealed carry law but was seperated- maybe lawyers worried about losing money there. Texas passed castle doctrine law and a month or so later couple burglers of neighbors house shot by guy who had called police- burglars were getting ready to run when he used deer rifle on them, surprise!, police high ranking officer arrived 5 minutes later with responding squad car- police were going to arrest shooter but county attorney told them the recent law forbade arrest without grand jury indictment- not the previous practice of arrest and let judge figure it out couple months later- prosecution/arrest action in defence of home case forbidden by police, civil actions also prohibited absent grand jury. Grand jury heard case next month, lawyer said wasn"t his house that was burglarized, grand jury said as far as they were concerned the law was written loose enough to cover fleeing felon case law and shooter should be rewarded- charges rejected with predudice, no true bill. Crime rate in neighborhood seemed to decline next couple months. Drunk causing ruckus should be handled by police? Police and lawyers should be on call and respond quicker- let bar association have the lawyers take turns responding to help calls. Lawyer doesn"t get there in time, bar association pays funeral expenses. Be interesting to put that on a state referendum. RN
 
We had a guy around here whose remote (normally uninhabitted) farm was burglarized several times, and he suspected by the same guy each time. So he decided to stay the night. The guy came back, and farmer fired a warning shot. Right through the guy's head. Coroner said he was dead before he hit the ground.

At trial for manslaughter, farmer said it was dark, he intended to fire the warning shot over perp's head, apparently the shot went awry. Jury took less than an hour to acquit him, and in a deliciously ironic statement after the trial, the jury foreman said (with a straight face), "We believed that he was trying to fire over the victim's head. We just couldn't convict the man for being a poor shot."
 
The liability type laws in this country are just messed up. And getting worse. It is never 'my' fault for anything happening, gotta blame someone else.

--->Paul
 
"Wing him".......get sued.....finance the guy for the rest of his life because you just winged him.
 
Since the drunk intruder did not show a weapon, the homeowner would be screwed here in New York.
 
If you do shoot someone in a situation like this, you must clearly articulate to law enforcement and the courts that you feared for your life. Even if the guy was unarmed you need to let them know that you did not know that and you did not know his intentions - thus creating a fear for your life. Be cautious about making any other statements.
 
Tragic situation if in fact we have all and true facts. But,

Did anyone hold his mouth open and pour alcohol down his neck? Or did he do it of his own choosing?

I drove my truck thru the place where an old barn stood years ago and got a nail in my tire. Now I realize I'm not comparing apples to apples but the same principal applies I knew the risks but did it anyway.

At some point people have to realize they have to be responsible for themselves and thier actions.

I'd be right in jail beside you.
 
There no doubt is a happy ground for this stuff.

A few miles from my town, a friend was dating a divorced lady. He met her three years after being divorced.

The ex-husband called, got mad, was drunk. He ended up coming to her house to kill the ex-wife and boy friend (my friend)

Ater several warnings, the drunk ex-husband kicked the door five times, numberes six the door was pulled open and my friends fist put his lights out.

They had called 911 prior to him coming over to kill them. Fourty five munites after the 911 call was made the cops showed up and arrested the guy. STAY WITH ME HERE--IT WAS MY FRIEND THEY ARRESTED FOR ASSULT. He spent the night in jail, now has a record--first bad thing on his record. So far he has explained to his bosses (large farm corpereration) why he now has a record, and they have been good about it. But his bosses are the top notched religeous type, and very alert as to a good public image. They would not ever consider hiring him now, but being he has worked for them for seven years it seems ok.

Judge told him you can not take the law into your own hands. Maybe the judge could use a late night guest to show him what it is like to wear those shoes.

My friend is trying to appeal the $750.00 dollar fine, and to get his record cleared up...but said it looked doubtfull so far.
 
Please come to our house, I don't know what's wrong but something happened."

Dispatcher: "What's happening?"

Alec: "What, Mom?"

A woman's voice in the background: "There's been an intruder."

Alec: "There's been an intruder at our house."

Dispatcher: "10714 320th Avenue?"

Alec: "Yes ... And someone's been shot. Please hurry."

Dispatcher: "Someone's been shot?"

Alec: "Yeah. Please hurry."

Dispatcher: "Who's been shot?"

Alec: "Um, my mom."

Dispatcher: "Your mom's been shot?"

Alec: "Yeah. And my dad."


GRRRRRRR!!!! This will not happen at my house.
 
I heard a story a couple of years ago, I forget where it was, but a lady confronted an intruder in her house and emptied two pistols at him without hitting him. The neighbors heard the ruckus and caught the guy as he was running away.

Basically, the lady shot up the entire inside of her house with two pistols without hitting what she was shooting at. It's a good thing there wasn't anyone else in the house.
 
Something smells. Why does it take two full pages of great detailed drama to make just part 1 of a 3 part story?
Somebody has an angenda with this one.
 
Same thing happened to my friend when he lived in an apartment. Guy who used to live there was mentally ill or something and was pounding on the door. Was a big guy and he actually nocked the whole door and frame right in the living room. My buddy thought he was going to have to shoot him but he left after he nocked the door in. The cops took him away.
 
Well at least he couldnt take the gun and shoot her with it if she emptied it 1st.

Incedently I have been on the other end of a strange deal.
Many years ago I was in door to door sales.
I had a brand new guy with me and was showing him the ropes.
We stopped at a house and knocked at the door. After about 3 knocks. I heard a womans voice say. Go away I have a gun and will shoot you. I said OK we are leaving. As i tried to explain why we knocked wile backing up. She yelled and said. You better leave now!
I said ok we are gone.
As we were walking back to the car we could hear her yell and scream behind the door.
We start walking a little faster.

About 3/4 the way back to the car we hear POP POP POP.
Man you never seen two guys move so fast.

Incedently the new guy never did show up for his secound day at work.
Glad I dont have to do that crap for a living any more.
 
This sounds a lot like the story line of a movie I watched not to long ago called Fellon. It was a pretty good movie. It really gets you upset how you can be in trouble for protecting your family.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG8SmRn4Qfg
 
Circumstances vary from case to case as does the law from state to state. In the instance of the drunk trying to get in, it might have been better to hit him with a cloud of pepper spray. Having used it on a number of occasions, I"ve found it more effective that anything else short of deadly force.

Before I get hollered at for being a softy, I suspect I"ve used deadly force more times than most on this forum.

The issue is kind of like defensive driving, you need to consider what you"ll do in different circumstances.

Bob
 
Thats all I could find this fast. Thats not the intial news story. Its one of those exposeys they do after. Sort of like the Bridge collaps stories they did for a whole year after.

It does give names and dates though so if you dont belive it so be it.
 
I guess.
But you have to understand. Most people are not trained for that type of situation.

I have been trained and I suspect you have been too.
My guns not coming out unless its coming out to do work.

To expect a home owner who is in a state of utter fear to react in a perfectly rational maner is not realistic.
I think the burden of what ever happens rational or irational is in the hands of the person who instegated the action. IE the perp.
 
I've pondered that scenario on occasion, years back myself and a friend had just left a bar in town, a town that sees a lot of activity, wealthy folks in town for the races, went in for a few tasty beers, no big deal, was walking to the vehicle, someone in a car yelled some rude insult, I said eff off jerk, car immediately turns into the street where we were parked and into a parking lot, we continued walking to the truck, the car door flings open and out comes a crazed, drug fueled aggressor (think he was coked up, cracked up, methed up, definitely one of those kind of drugs) rushing at me with his arms a flailing. My reaction is, he's goin down, I let him come to me, like most of these guys, no clue how to fight, throwing punches at my face, I blocked all of them, I lost my cool, which could get you killed in a fight, and pile drived him with punches to the pavement, wasting too much energy, split him open above one eye and below the other, was a short wirey type, which can be hard to deal with, his better 1/2 comes out and jumps on my back and starts pounding me in the head, it hurt, never been clobbered by a woman, though I'd have knocked her out given the chance that night, that rule don't apply now, she came around one side and almost broke my nose, I stayed focused, calmed a bit and hit him in the most painful pressure points I could, groin, forearm etc. He reluctantly let go, friend finally gets her off my back, he's one to not get involved, what in heck were you waiting for, she could have had a knife or a gun. This guy gets up and wants more, so I got a car between us to rest up, was trying to get out of there before the police showed up, could not shake this jerk, was next to a pizza joint so I duck in there, this jerk on my tail, I figure I'll need witnesses, so I let him assault me in the pizza joint, he tried to headlock me, I dropped to 1 knee, flipped him over my shoulder and knife handed him in the throat, he's now gagging, move and I will finish you off! I rush out and get pointed out by the crowd. Who needs this crap, well the police came right over, crowds were pointing this melee out, so now I have to deal with it, aggressor turns out to be a well known criminal and drug addict with a long rap sheet, cops told me this, they knew him well. Ambulance comes and he goes away on stretcher. I don't recall what I was charged with, but $600.00 and an atty later, I believe it was dropped, not on my record. Pizza joint owner made a corroborating statement on my behalf, so does my friend, both witness to him assaulting me etc.

The thing that gets me, given a situation like this, the law kind of leads you to believe that you would be better off taking the beating, I mean I was charged, not sure if the assailant was charged but he showed up in court stitched up and 2 black eyes, might not have been a felony, not even sure if it was a misdemeanor, but the fact that I was charged and had to defend myself later in court at my expense, after I physically defended myself against an assailant, (had 2 witnesses to that) to me that is BS eff the damned laws, I did not ask to be assaulted. I told the judge that, during court, that if confronted like that again, I would do the same thing again, the right thing, stood my ground and would fight to the death if need be, there is no way I am taking any assailants beating in this life, and then letting it ride on the justice system, the assailant was fueled by drugs, and was very dangerous, he felt no pain after a hardcore beating, I mean I stopped at one point because I had his head against the pavement and was just pummeling him, enough is enough, you are beat, now go away, but this was not happening the drugs just kept him going, I was in real good shape too, sucker wore me out! These situations used to be rare, most will never face off with someone like this, but it does happen, we still joke about it today, who would have ever thought going out for a few beers after a long day of work would turn into this.
 

Shooting anyone who enters your home uninvited isn't the best advice. A stranded motorists in -10F may be in dire need of warmth and if nobody answers the door I don't fault someone for walking if nobody answers the door. In fact, this happened to me about 3 weeks ago. The owner of a local bar/restaurant was driving home after closing (about 3AM) and slid off the road about 1/4 mile away from my house. He couldn't bang on that front door loud enough to rise any of us. Guy was so cold it took him about 15 minutes to stop shivering. Got free dinners for the family for that 5 mins of tractor work. Good thing I didn't shoot him.
 
What if the intruder acts like he is drunk as a ruse to get in your house? no shoot first and ask questions later and remember a dead man dont answer questions.
 
Of course I'd let him get about 6 foot in the house. That way I have 6 feet to be sure I don't know him, he has 6 feet to turn and run, and if he don't, well he won't fall outside the house......
 
Well I was told by a Mich. state cop that the guy "has to be in the house" before you shoot him. Plain and simple. Now with that being said after you shoot him after he is in the house you get a steak knife and put it in his hand.
 
Neat story, it is sad that the criminal justice system didnt give you a bonus for kicking the &hit out of that loser.

Oops I forgot that drug addict was a victim.....in the eyes of the abundant society.
 
Short of shooting, you could hold the gun on him and let your wife, or someone else, beat the living H*** out of them. Then put them outside and lock the door again. If they try it again, POP---one time and make it count!
 
Yup. Happened in Waseca, Mn. About 15 miles from where I live. Very bad deal. That"s why the 12 guage stays full of deer slugs at my place. Living on a dead end road, we get our share of interest from would- be burglars here. None of them has gotten past the dog yet........
 
I dont think any one is saying " shoot any one who knocks on your door"

We have had many drunks and lost people stop here before.
Helped most, called the cops on the others.
Had a guy knock on the door at 3am.
I answered the door through the door. The guy asked if he could use the phone as his car was stuck.
I said I would make the call. He gave the number and I called. 1/2 hr latter some one came and picked him up. He stayed out side the whole time. We stayed inside. Seems unfriendly but we are not taking chances with our safety at 3 am.

Had he not followed my instructions. And tried to enter my home........well you know.

Have had a truck break down right in my drive at 5 am. 3 guys drunk off their butts. One guy knocked at the door wile the others were milling about the yard. They asked for gas.

I told them to return to their vehicle were I could see them and I would get them some gas.
As I was talking the wife called the cops.

We put the kids in the back bed room and I gave the wife the shot gun. I kept the revolver in my coat pocket.
I went out when I saw them at the truck and gave them some gas. As I was talking to them I could hear a vehicle coming down the road from the east real fast. At the top of the hill I noticed it was the law.

Turns out the truck was stolen, they were all drunk and they had my sawsall in the back from my truck. Plus they were minors.

I am used to that kind of thing around here. We had a 1/2 way house 2 mile east of us for years. Every creepy crud you could think of was always walking the road from the house to Braham.


Have another story I will tell another time about what happened once to the wife wile I was on a fishing trip. All I can say wife did a good job convicing the guy I was on my way back from the hardware store any minute.

Thank God they closed up that 1/2 way house. havent had any problems since. And havent had to shoot any one yet.
 
For what it's worth, there aren't enough people who think the way you do. If the justice system would take care of the ones who are without a doubt guilty the correct way, there wouldn't be much of an issue of the bull happening to innocent people. If every person in this country knew what the end result would be if they murder or rape innocent people, I have to believe they would think twice before doing it. What ever they do to the innocent will happen to them in their justice sentence. You kill an innocent person, you'll be killed too. You rape an innocent woman (or man), guess what, I bet it isn't gonna feel good when your sentence is served. Any normal thinking person would reconsider, and anyone not normal enough to reconsider shouldn't be out in society anyway.
 
That is just it, the guy was well known by that PD dept., and by some of towns people, it's sad when something like that happens, I'm like, I did not instigate this, so I told him to eff off, he jumped out and escalated it to something that was a crime, and I get charged, and I have to pay an could have that on my record. No way out of it either, who is to say how far someone like that would go, especially on hard drugs, you had best be capable of reacting to it without hesitation, something I never had a problem with, he was just looking for a fight with someone, problem was he found the wrong guy that night. You wonder or speculate, what if the guy attacked a saavy elder or someone who just can't fight, but was armed, who feared for his well being and shot him, you know because that person was armed and the assailant was not, it could work against the guy defending himself, that's why the best policy is try to avoid the problem if possible, if not you have to do what you must to protect yourself from harm, going to court at least won't cause you bodily harm, just hurt your bank account LOL !

One thing worth learning in this world is to always be aware of your surroundings and be able to block a punch, stay calm and defend yourself, if you cannot escape and evade first, I mean thinking back, you really don't want to put yourself in a position like that so the smarter thing to do would have been to ignore the guy, he was focused on us though, it might not have made a difference, harrassed us as we were crossing the street from a moving vehicle, we had the right of way, so I told him to eff off, is that a crime ?

Some stories are better left untold, probably should not have mentioned this here, but the post reminded me of that incident. Well maybe I learned, come out of my favorite place with the girlfriend one night, 2 years ago, there's a drunk urinating on her car just as we are approaching and going to open the door, she was a bit p_ssed, I really wanted to do something, but just held back, told em to move on, remembering how these things can turn out, thought it the mature thing to do but you just never know. At first glance you don't want her to think you are a push over, but then again showing some restraint portrays you as someone who has a little poise and stays in control, reacting only when absolutely necessary, the guy was lucky, she'd have clobbered him good too, from the country and takes no crap. Probably best we both kinda just figured, like most things it'll just wash off, drunks will be drunks...
 
We had a problem around here a while back. Someone would come to the door and claim to have car trouble and need to use the phone to call help. When the people would open the door, they would rob them.
 
around 1972. Hatfields and McCoys type feud got into several of one family threatening to burn down house and occupants. Even walked up to front door with matches and gas cans. Mr. Hatfield fired shotgun killing one young man. He also, the homeowner, did over 5 years. Left his family without income and on welfare for that time. I personally knew Mr. Hatfield and would probably have done the same. Years later, I owned that house and rented it out. Had tenants using drugs. Called police, who told me to get them out or they would confiscate property. How does law work anyhow? Landlord no more.
 
So do you shoot everyone that comes to your door at night?
It seems to me that if the kid was there any length of time yelling to be let in, then mabey calling the cops to come get him would have been sufficient. If he thought 'he' lived there, chances are eh was probably in the right neighbourhood, wrong house. Mabey all the houses looked alike.

I don't really blame anyone for shooting if someone was threatened but it seems to me like alot of posters in this thread are awful trigger happy.
If it did come to that I'd also find a solution that didn't involve the law, and that's really enough said.

Rod
 
They did call the cops. They did not shoot until the drunk busted the window and was trying to enter the home. When the guy broke the window it went from a drunk at the door waiting for the cops. To stopping a intruder from entering the home.

I feel for the drunk he made a mistake and paid a terible price for it. But it was he who made the mistake not the home owner.

I suspect if it was me. I would have waited until the guy actually crossed the threashold of the door. But I dont know for sure and its all just samantics. Fear is fear I dont judge the when he shot its why he shot. And he shot to protect his family. Good enough for me.
 

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