O/T Need Some Advise - bad Truck Sale-kinda long

About a week before Thanksgiving, I had an old 1975 Chevrolet plow truck for sale. Had really low miles like 20,000 origional, clean body just sat a long time. I had it for sale on craigs list $2900 or best offer. Got quite a few call and one night after chores a guy wanted to come look at it. I told him come back in the daytime because it was already dark out. Well he insisted he wanted to see it, I gave him directions to the shop and he went and looked at it.

He call me back and says he wants it. he came to the farm at 10:00 at night to give me a deposit. he came in and his wife sat out in the car, we did the deal and he was going to pay me the rest the following Monday when he was going to pick it up.


In the ad I stated that it needed exhaust work, and batteries. I told him it ran and drove good when I parked it 2.5 years ago, and it might take a little work to get her going. And the exhaust crossover is gone completely and he will have to tow it or trailer it out. Didnt want it running too long in case of fire. And once he got the exhaust done take it around the block a few times, and see what happens before you put it on the road. He agreed.

Monday showed up , he paid me and was $50 short, I did him a favor, and gave the title to him , I got it pulled out and running, while running the trans cooler lines broke from rust. Well I went to auto zone got 2 new lines and put them on for him. This guy calls his wife and tells him the problem we had with the trans lines, and I can hear her yelling at me calling me all kind of dirty names while Im under the truck. And then she said she was coming out to talk to me. Well i starrted to think humm...they couldnt pay me the $50 but she is going to drive out here at $2.00 gallon 45 miles one way. So she showed up, and said nothing to me. I told him as previously agreed to drive it down the road and back and make sure everything shifts and runs. He did, and came back, NO PROBLEMS NO LEAKS. Asked him how he was going to get it home and he said he wanted to get it to the Muffler Doctor In Marine City to get the exhaust work done. Marine City is 7 miles away. So he drives it there, the mechanic looks at it and find another oil leak - oil pressure line. The mechanic also suggests that he replace ALL the brake lines if he is going to drive it on the road. Gives him an estimate for $2000. Way over infated, because the mechanic is tired of dealing with this guys wife, very demanding and opinionated.

Well the next day I see the truck 15 miles out of town on the side of the road with a State Police Tow Tag on it. I called back to the Muffler Doctor and he said they were going to drive it home oil leak, no exhaust, no plate, no insurance.
I asked why didnt they get the oil line fixed and the exhaust only...he said they didnt have any money to get it done.

So I dont know if it got towed or blew up or what, or it was impounded and they didnt have the money for the tow bill or impound fee.

So I didnt hear anything until last night, this guys wife is taking me to court, suing me.

Now everything I went trough and tried to help, I dont remember if I put "as-is " on the paperwork or not and it being a 34 year old vehicle. Does she have a case or not.

And what would you do if you were me?

She has no case...there was no expressed or implied warranty, so the sale was "as is, where is". caveat emptor, or some such!
That Muffler shop may be your best witness...if they had an issue with condition, they should have called you from there, rather than violate a hundred different laws and truck down the road.

She'll sue the muffler shop also. She is going to make money.

Do not go through small claims court, which she most likely will do. Force the case to a real court where lawyers are needed, AND, get yourself a lawyer on board anyway.

i think she doesnt have a case, anything that old is assumed to be sold, "as is where is " unless otherwise stated in writing. it sounds like the guy is a wipped puppy and his wife is a overbearing B--- id ask your attourney just to be safe, but if they cant even come up with 50 bucks how would they retain a attourny to sue even if they did have a case? i think she's hoping you'll panic and completly restore the truck to like new condition at your expense, to avoid a lawsuite, if the truck is impounded they wont be able to retrieve it if they don't have any money, and it will probably wind up getting sold for salvage by the tow company

I THINK small claims is limited to $1500 here in Michigan anyway isn't it? It's been a long time since I've transfered a title,but I thought a transfer was as-is anyway.

Kinda related,I remember back when I was a kid,Dad traded a 50 Chevy pickup for an Oliver 70 tractor. He made the mistake of leaving his plates on the truck for the guy to get it home. He was only 6 miles away and Dad knew him quite well anyway. The guys kids took off with it and ran out of gas along the road. The cops called Dad and told him he needed to come and get his truck off the road.

BAD, BAD, BAD! If they do sue you. With lawyers fees it will cost you more to defend yourself than the truck is worth. Like previous re's said they probably don't have money to get lawyer and are trying to get a little out of you. My suggestion, do nothing till when and if you are served.

Sad situation and it goes to show that your instincts were right. I sold a used garage refrigerator to a guy one time who came back about a week later and had a repair bill for a defrost coil that he wanted me to pay for. He was all angry and was puffing about the fact that his son was a lawyer and if I didn't pay him the $75.00 that he wanted he would sue me. I paid him to get rid of him but I had him sign a waiver of future damages before I gave him the check.

I would talk to an attorney (some will give you an opinion free). You simply sold a used car, a vintage one out of extended storage and you did not mis-represent it at all. My guess would be that these folks have sued people before and you are just the latest victim. I am now involved with a legal suit at work and trust me it's unpleasant to say the least.

What they are most likely doing is trying to extort some money back from you by forcing you to come forward with a settlement offer. If you do offer something that could be construed as an admission that you knew the truck needed significant repairs so you have to be careful how you do this.

I wish you the best of luck on this.

Go back and reread your Craigslist ad. Sounds like everything you need to defend yourself will be in there. I really kind of doubt there will be any litigation, but jot down everything you can remember about the transaction. If anything else comes from it, keep a journal of any interaction...date, time, who, what was said...ect.

yes. I have also heard about headaches from signing over a title & leaving transfer open-cause buyer knows tag agent & can do it 'after its fixed up' get it stamped when it leaves your hands.

I think only dealers can get into trouble. Personal sales are as-is. At least that's what someone I know told me from watching peoples court tv.

Also he and his friends have sold some really junk cars and trucks and never were sued.

I am the type to get it over with now.
Go to the guy, (not with his wife around)
And say, hey I want to get this over right now, I will give you 90% of your money back if you give me the truck back. The 10% is having to deal with the guy. Going to court on a $2900 truck is BS.
Nuff said.

have to tell'em the sell is "as is", let her take you to court and you counter sue them for a thousand for the extra work you did.

Should be able to go to craigslist and print out your old ad. As far as I'm aware, all vehicle sales are as-is for private party deals. As far as I can tell, you were nbothing but polite, and his wife is, well, a kind hearted soul.... of sorts...

Donovan from Wisconsin

I wouldn't worry about it in the least.The buyers don't have a leg to stand on.

Tell her "I'll see ya in court then".Bet you'll never hear another thing about it!

How did you learn that they're taking you to court? Did you get an actual summons, or just a nasty phone call or letter from these jerks? If you didn't get a summons, I'd say they're bluffing and I would ignore them. If they call back again, just tell them you'll see them in court.

If you did get a summons, it's nothing to be worried about. No reasonable judge is going to side with these idiots. I assume this would be in small claims court. You'll probably have to meet with a mediator to try to settle it out of court before you see the judge. I don't think they helped their case by driving it without plates and insurance; the judge isn't going to look kindly on that.

Let them sue. I"d rather pay 10,000 to a lawyer than give them 10 cents. Its the oldest scam in the book, so many people dont want to hassle with a suit and are scared of the outcome.

She just called you and threatened to sue you? Wait till you get served with an official court notice. They would need a lawyer and any lawyer would want a retainer before doing anything. Even if they get a lawyer to send you a threatening letter, take it with a big grain of salt. Lawyers are usually too busy to bother with dumb law suits. The exception is injury lawyers. They drove the truck on the road with no license plate, registration or insurance. How's that going to go over in court? They want to sue you while they are guilty of driving a non road worthy vehicle on the road with no insurance or registration. HMMM? I think court would be the farthest away place that they would want to go. You have a credible witness to the condition of the truck. They also never paid you in full. In the unlikely event it did go to court, the judge would look at the selling price and inform them of the buyer beware claus. Don't spend money on a lawyer. See if they have a lawyer referral were you are. Up here they will give you the names of 3 lawyers, that practice in the law you need, that will give up to a half an hour free consultation. If a case goes to court that clearly never should have and wastes the court time, the losing side can be ordered to pay additional damages. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If they have a lawyer go to court, it will cost them at least $1500 and only in real extreme cases are legal fees awarded. Usually none or a small percentage. I think they have much bigger problems than with you. If they did in fact have the truck impounded, they could lose it and the fine for insurance or registration could be as high as the cost of the truck. If they get the truck back, there will still be a big towing and storage charge. Serves them right. Let us know what happens. Dave

Did you make a copy of the bill of sale for yourself? It is a must-have item.

They have almost no case but if you have no copy of the paperwork and they have not transfered the title at the courthouse, you may want to let the tow yard know the details as you are still the legal owner in the state's eye as that is the information they have.

If I was you I would not pay them a cent, would not take the truck back unless you really want to, make sure the title is still clean, and make sure they have paid all the tow and storage charges. Highly unlikely. If she threatens to sue, politely give them the name of your lawyer and tell them to send all correspondence to them.
If she continues to call or threaten you, use the law to get harassement charges started. She sounds like a bully.

I guess I'll disagree with most of the others who've replied. DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE, the vehicle may have to be usable as sold, unless it's clearly sold as salvage.

Maybe at a vehicle salvage yard or dealer but you have to have a special license to purchase salvage vehicles. The mechanic at the muffler shop can verify the truck wasn't road worthy but was repairable to road worthy condition. Dave

Ya know, that truck I just posted about, '64 f-600, came from sebewaing, the big dealer there, he told me it had power steering, got there it did not, have that in an e-mail, also barely started when I got there, had paid him an extra $200 to change all fluids and to make sure I'd have no problems, 800 mile return trip with my tiny car on the back. He never mentioned that the frame was actually lengthened, some splice plates were failing, was just the welds, but the main vertical welds were good at least. Needed a voltage regulator, and alternator, I bought a battery from him, he offered, one less stop. He could have taken care of the $100 electrical parts, I'd have paid for the parts, he does the labor, think that was fair. I arrive, they were jumping it with and old deuce and 1/2, not much confidence in the return trip, well I made it on a thread, dim lights and all, some people are like this. Heck I called him and told him , I made it back, thanks again, made him feel good, he had no clue I did not appreciate the problems I had to fix, not worth arguing about, just consider the source and do better next time, a week later same truck went for $1500, 1/2 the miles, and no rust at all, ya win some and ya lose some. If it were me, it aint leavin the lot unless right, who wants the nitpicker type to come back, some people are just never happy though. He told me of people coming back at him for these old trucks he sells aside from the late model stuff. I agreed to buy the thing and I held up my end, as is, not knowing the other things, all which I repaired myself and turned out fine, I'd have never have gone back at him unless I blew a rear or got stranded because of something major, told him it I want all fluids changed, lights checked, make sure it's ready, I'll pay the difference to avoid problems, it was not ready, he knew what day I was coming and what time, you just have to laugh, not the money or the deal, just how people think, darned cheap sometimes, was no short ride home, 36 hours straight round trip, if I had ever stopped and shut it down, would have died, was generating just enough to keep afloat, died soon after I got home.

Not to hijack the thread, truck like that with a nice body, not rusted out, decent motor and trans, well maybe less than $2000 here, nice fixer upper, I drove a K-10 for 6 years straight, was a fixer upper like this one, bought as is what is wrong with people, negotiate a price, if a deal is struck, live up to it, guy sold me a 850 ford tractor, I looked at it at dusk, thing was well hammered, did not know the half of it never once thought about getting back at him, I fixed er up, been working 7 years this month and has paid for itself including what I have in repairs, things can work out, better to keep moving than to stop and complain sometimes. What in heck is wrong with people, this old stuff aint perfect, some sellers may not be either, it is what is, buy and know what you got and go home or just move on..... I hope it turns out alright, people can be such a pain sometimes, as is IS as is !

Well sir all have good advice here BUT YOU ARE GOVERNED BY YOUR STATE LAWS. On vechile sales and court procedures. Knowing them would be your best advantage.

If they didn`t have enough to fix the exhaust they won`t have enough to hire an attorney, they won`t take a case like this with out up front money, and if you wind up in small claims court the judges are not stupid. In most states a dealer can lie to you and there is nothing you can do about it.

Sit tight and wait ,Seems she is all hot air, mouths off to husband but doesn't say anything to you, just a scare, I had a wife like that once, stress had.all hot wind and no guts.might be her.With that type you also get the lies.

Not to sound like a smarty or to hurt anyones feelings, but why would anyone give someone else the title and keys to an automobile thats still in their name , especially if they don't know them ? I've always heard that here in the state of Kentucky that if someone does something in a automobile that's in someone elses name then whosever name it's in is responsible for it ,too. But still I wouldn't give them anything without legal advice first . I'd wait until I was notified of an actual court date and then if I won , I'd sue the man and his wife for distress and harassment and anything else I could find to nail them with. That would teach them to fool with me or to try and do anyone else dirty like that . Their probably think that you'll be scared and give them money out of court to settle because they'll think that you'll be scared and want to avoid going to court and want to avoid the cost of a lawyer , court ,etc. so you'll give them their money back along with a couple hundred more for their trouble and the muffler shop costs etc. instead of going to court, because it would be cheaper in the long run than going to court . As long as you let people walk over you they will so you have to prove to them that people , namely you , won't put up with it

I think small claims court is now up to $3000. If they can't pay the last $50 I doubt they can afford a lawyer. I would just ignore them until you get a summons to go to court. Apparently you told them everything that you knew of that needed to be fixed. At that point they must have been too stupid to realize what they were buying.

I agree, at least in MI, you don't really have to state "as-is" it's already inplied in a priveate sale on used vehicles unless stated otherwise. They don't have a leg to stand on. Buyer beware! They knew what they were buying.
Relax, you're in the right on this one.