Hugh Mackay

Where do you buy methyl hydrate? I have had my skid steer running in colder weather but today she is gellin up. I am not sure why but, I will need something. Thanks

Methanol. Same thing. While methanol is a tremendously effective antifreeze, solvent, and industrial chemical, it has some real dangers to both people and equipment. Do research before using.

Over the past 20 years I have been using power service products and no complaints yet. There always easily available around here.

Go to www.powerservice.com, they have a where to by locator all you have to do is put in your zip code.

Bus Driver: Bought my first gallon of Methyl Hydrate close to 50 years ago and I fail to see the dangers. It's not safe to drink, but other than that it will do little damage to man or machine.

Most folks are surprised to find how little it takes to keep a fuel system running free in cold weather. I've used it and used a lot of it on both gas and diesel engines, never rebuilt a diesel under 10,000 hours. I can take you to several trucking companies buy MH by the drum and dump a cup in every 100 gallon fill up, during winter. In my SA, 130 or 140 I use a 20 cc shringe and 20cc will do a fill up on two tractors.

It works well on air brakes, it is lock deicer pure and is the ingrediant that keeps all windshield washer from freezing. How could it be dangerous, the way most windshield washer gets splashed around. If my windshield washer hasn't been used in awhile, I know the MH has evaporated from the washer tank, thus I just beef it up with pure MH.

My friend, it's riuculous the tales that folks in auto parts business tell about MH, and why wouldn't they, MH could eliminate half their winter snake oils on the shelf.

Hugh, Is that what they used to refer to as "Wood Alcohol?


Gene

Dieselrider: You can buy Methyl Hydrate by the gallon or quart at most hardware stores, it's usually in the paint section. Drug stores have it, usually by the gallon. Most of their customers are hospitals or nursing homes. I find some druggists get a bit up tight, on the fear that folks are drinking it. Doesn't hurt to know the druggist. I've had more than my share of lectures from druggists, course I don't like to tell them, they are selling it about 50% less than hardware stores. Don't want to put any ideas in their heads.

Years ago, one could buy MH at every gas station, truck stop and auto parts stores, and of course it got booted by higher profit products. Here in Canada TSC have moved it to their paint section, don't want it in the automotive section any more. That just happened in the past year. MH used to be in both departments.

Terrible thing when corperations tell us what we should buy and come up with all sorts of danger stories for not using that raw product. Good heavens, depending on how cold it's expected to be, up to 50% of any good windshield washer is MH. Dangerous, I THINK NOT.

Gene: YES, wood alcohol or rubbing alcohol

Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl. It already has added to it (as rubbing alcohol) most of the water it can absorb. Isopropyl is C3H8O. It also has added some toxic ingredients to lessen the likelihood of it being used as beverage. The better gas line antifreezes are pure isopropyl. Methanol is wood alcohol CH3OH. They are not the same thing.
The link briefly mentions some of the potential problems with metals, rubber and plastics with methanol. Again I urge to educate themselves. Factual information is useful.
Methanol

Would be interested in knowing how to use the Methyl Hydrate for making windshield washer fluid. What amount to use in a gallon of water? How long does it remain effective as antifreeze before it needs to be 'refreshed'?

Suffolk: I don't have the ratios for windshield washer fluid, never tried to make that product. As you know MH evaporates and if I notice my windshield washer a bit slow or starting to freeze, I add about half cup to my washer tank.

If you've noticed like me, some winter windshield washers are much better product than others, they are also more expensive. Difference is the amount of MH and/or detergents. I just buy the cheap washer and beef it up. I don't think I'd bother manufacturing, probably can't compete.

Bus Driver: I probably haven't bought this at a drug store for 5-6 years. Problem is I don't know a druggist that well since I moved. However the last time I did buy MH at a drug store it was the same damn MH as I buy at the hardware store and the same damn MH I used to buy at gas stations and truck stops 40 years ago.

The warnings you speak of, are nothing more than protecting corporate profits.

I used to buy Methanol, Alky, Clear Fuel, Wood Alcohol in 55 gallon barrels when we were tractor pulling. We used it for FUEL in our Stroked Early Chrysler Hemi. It ia also used ar a thinner for varnish, the wood coating kind. Paint store should have it But I thought Diesel Injector pumps did not like Methanol. tre shops also have methanol to mix with water for loaded tires. You can also use about 1 gallon of gasoline to 10 gallon diesel as an anti-gel. Or buy any anti-gel additive.

Kent

My posts have been directed only at the materials under discussion. Mr MacKay almost always posts helpful factual information and I have learned much from those. I do have various credentials including formal training as a fireman, 2 semesters of credit in college chemistry, CDL with tanker and hazardous materials endorsement, plus others. I urge others to be cautious. Attacking me does not change the technical aspects of this topic.
MSDS

I have some Cummins literature that warns not to use any alcohol as a fuel additive, or the warranty on the pump and injectors will void. I think it is due to scoring of plungers due to lack of lubricity.

Bus Driver: I'm not trying to attack anyone. I also happen to have training in chemicals, being an ag college graduate, and until last year held a Canadian Government lisense to handle and use restricted chemicals, thus I know all the hazzard warnings and how to find out more about any specific chemical.

Since the beginning of my career the active ingrediant in any diesel fuel additive designed to prevent gelling or freeze up has been Methyl Hydrate. Yes, we know it's dangerous; poisioness, flamable and explosive, however so are many other products we use. For the most part diesel fuel additives are nothing more than a mixture of MH and fuel oil or kero, designed to do nothing more than prevent the inexperienced user from using more MH than necessary to do the job. MH is not harmful to gasoline or diesel engines. I'm living proof of that; 6 diesel engines that burnt gallons of MH and everyone of them went 10,000 to rebuild both pump and engine. I've used it in countless gas tractors, cars and trucks, always got higher than average life out of my engines.

Even in the day when I was farming and running 7 tractors, 2 skid loaders, 4 trucks and a car I used less than 2 gallons of MH per winter. That included use in fuel, lock deicer, beefing up windshield washer and thawing air brakes. I never had a plane to deice. Today I just have a car, pickup and 3 offset Farmalls. I noticed last fall that last years MH jug only contained about a cup, thus I bought a new jug, haven't opened that one yet. I can tell you MH is damn handy when you get a fill up of gas containing water. Get a Farmall 140 with sediment bowl solid ice, add 20 cc of MH and within 5 min you have fuel flowing to carb. And don't critize me for the way I handle fuel, I know how refiners store fuel and one slip of a tank farm shut off can add water to my fuel, big time.

Just be sure not to use methanol as a rubbing alcohol. Getting chemicals confused can be deadly.
"Little Timmy took a drink, but he will drink no more. For what he thought was H2O was H2SO4."

Davis: That may well be, however when it's -40 and fuel don't flow, alcohol is the only answer. Something I expect you don't often experience in SC. I doubt if Cummins are very rigid on that one in Canada, in fact I doubt if they dare print it up here.

Isopropyl alcohol is the least aggressive to metal, rubber & plastic. And works just as well to absorb water or thin gelled diesel.
It will run the smallest jets of the three alcohol groups to get the ideal mixture.

whether you believe it or not methanol is dangerous to man or any primate. It is absorbed through the skin and will cause liver damage and blindness thats why latex or nitrile gloves are required when handling if you would read the msds you would know. It also has vapors that can do the same damage and is highly flammable. too many people have made the same mistake of thinking its harmless. I work with this stuff everyday.

Absolutely agreed. Isopropyl is by far the better of the two. Some auto stores carry two kinds of fueline antifreeze. Read the container carefully. Most likely the cheaper one will be methanol. The isopropyl will probably be priced at twice the cost of methanol. Worth it in my opinion.

djm: I don't think MH is harmless. I know all about msds, until last year I held a Canadian Government lisence to handle and use restricted clemicals.

My point being MH is just as harmful in XXZ or YTO diesel fuel additive.