buicanddeere
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70L68TzwXUY&feature=related
- Thread starter buicanddeere
- Start date
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL STARTING A MOTOR ??????????
Kevin in OK
Member
While that's not exactly the safest way to start a tractor, at least the operator recognizes the danger. "Make sure I'm outta gear... (rattle) ... that'd be awful."
Kevin
Kevin
tiresntracks
Member
Yeah, I'd work with him any time. He wouldn't complain if the air conditioner or the CD player didn't work, he would just do what it takes to get the job done.
Fawteen
Well-known Member
- Location
- Downeast Maine
Yup. Doing what he has to to get the job done.
My only question would be "How come you don't fix it right?" It's highly likely that it's nothing more than a bad switch or wiring and a relatively simple fix.
Craps out in the middle of harvest? Sure, I've used the screwdriver over the solenoid terminals a few times.
Use it that way for years cuz I'm too lazy to fix it right? Nope, but that's just me.
My only question would be "How come you don't fix it right?" It's highly likely that it's nothing more than a bad switch or wiring and a relatively simple fix.
Craps out in the middle of harvest? Sure, I've used the screwdriver over the solenoid terminals a few times.
Use it that way for years cuz I'm too lazy to fix it right? Nope, but that's just me.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
i have been there and done that
buicanddeere
Member
You didn't pickup on a couple of errors plus the attitude?
sure, not a problem as long as he's smart enough to rattle that gear shift in nutural before he jumps the solinoid, i do that a lot, if the starting switch is out or like in this case 1 guy had to hit the engine with either and crank it theres not much else you can do, i just noticed how nice and straight the tin work was on that old tractor, which obviously works for a living
you are always bichin bout saftey do ever do anything bout drunk mdrivers.Their are more drunk driving deaths a week than all the other cause of death COMBINED.Do you have any happyness in your life at all.Man you need to lighten up.Glen you need to use your energy for something that matters.I know you and others will barbeque me over this but you spoke your opinion and asked for respones and that is mine
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I suppose farmers will take the protective cover off and leave it off,, just cause their too lazy to fix things right..
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
If you ain't thinking you shouldn't be operating
equipment in the first place.The problem with Idiot Proof equipment is that you then have lots of idiots operating equipment
equipment in the first place.The problem with Idiot Proof equipment is that you then have lots of idiots operating equipment
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Errors ??? is called stupidity
Attitude ??? is dealing with People who can't think.
Attitude ??? is dealing with People who can't think.
Nebraska Cowman
Well-known Member
Sounds nice. What was the question?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I don't know of a mechanic that doesn't do the exact thing, probably on a daily basis.
On the other hand the (parts changer till you get it right) type wouldn't think of doing it.
Some folks don't have the money to do it right, the wealthy and well to do have no idea what that game is all about. Alot of farmers in our area can't change out a battery. They call the implment dealer who will do it for a price. Those type of farmers are in the top ten best farmers bracket. See EWG farm subsaties data base for the list of top ten. There is a reason why they are so sucsefull. And also would never think of starting a tractor that way.
A older very nice gentleman farmer used to take bothe WC Allis tractors to pick corn. He could not unload with the WC with the mounted picker. Sounds good except he only had one magneto, and one wagon. He was pretty good at timing them both. He probably only had 80-100 acres to pick, but in those days that was a big project.
Is there a safer way? sure is. Nothing is fool proof, and never will be.
On the other hand the (parts changer till you get it right) type wouldn't think of doing it.
Some folks don't have the money to do it right, the wealthy and well to do have no idea what that game is all about. Alot of farmers in our area can't change out a battery. They call the implment dealer who will do it for a price. Those type of farmers are in the top ten best farmers bracket. See EWG farm subsaties data base for the list of top ten. There is a reason why they are so sucsefull. And also would never think of starting a tractor that way.
A older very nice gentleman farmer used to take bothe WC Allis tractors to pick corn. He could not unload with the WC with the mounted picker. Sounds good except he only had one magneto, and one wagon. He was pretty good at timing them both. He probably only had 80-100 acres to pick, but in those days that was a big project.
Is there a safer way? sure is. Nothing is fool proof, and never will be.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
This fellow is the type that concentrates on “getting the task done” Instead of considering the overall job and plan.
Watch it again.
He first tried starting the tractor in gear but the undersized starter/batteries/cables didn"t have enough power to roll the tractor forward.
Then Mr. tinkerer realized the tractor was still in gear then placed it in neutral.
A hydraulic transmission tractor would have started, and then two seconds later suddenly ran Mr. Tinkerer over without warning.
Everything seen had the appearance of not enough time and money to do it right, but enough time and money to do it over again.
Watch it again.
He first tried starting the tractor in gear but the undersized starter/batteries/cables didn"t have enough power to roll the tractor forward.
Then Mr. tinkerer realized the tractor was still in gear then placed it in neutral.
A hydraulic transmission tractor would have started, and then two seconds later suddenly ran Mr. Tinkerer over without warning.
Everything seen had the appearance of not enough time and money to do it right, but enough time and money to do it over again.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
yea the guy I don't want to work around is the guy that needs all the safety gadgets to keep from getting killed because sooner or later he's going to get into a situation where there is no safety gadget or shield to protect him and he'll end up butchering himself or someone else up.Nothing takes the place of a few brains and being aware of what you doing at all times which includes having the ability to put a tractor in neutral.
No, actually the first thing he did was feed a gob of ether to her, then put it in neutral, then give it some throttle, then short the starter. It didn't start, he looked in at the throttle again, then gave it another go.
That's not something that I care to do very often, but have done when it's necessary. I fix those type things simply for the time they waste like that one right there.
I can also think of far more dangerous people to work around. Those are the ones who don't know how to do anything.
I'd sooner work alone most of the time anyway.
Rod
That's not something that I care to do very often, but have done when it's necessary. I fix those type things simply for the time they waste like that one right there.
I can also think of far more dangerous people to work around. Those are the ones who don't know how to do anything.
I'd sooner work alone most of the time anyway.
Rod
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Fine in theory but doesn't work in practice. Ask you local fire dept rescue crew. What does the place,equipment and safe work practices look like where the bulk of incidents occur?
Any body can slip or back into an unguarded pto shaft. Having "a few brains and being aware of what you doing at all times" or not.
This guy did't do the neutral check before the 1st starting attempt did he?
Any body can slip or back into an unguarded pto shaft. Having "a few brains and being aware of what you doing at all times" or not.
This guy did't do the neutral check before the 1st starting attempt did he?
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
That's another entirely different issue but it does demonstrate the train of thought this tinkerer uses.
The cranking rpms were very slow. Using a couple of group 31 batteries, some 2/00 cable, swaged connectors and a 42MT starter would eliminate the ether.
Starting the tractor from the seat has never been considered tacky either.
It’s hard to believe the tinkerer couldn’t wire in a key switch or push button starter switch to be operated from the operator’s seat. He did the other 98% of the job, why couldn’t he finish?
The cranking rpms were very slow. Using a couple of group 31 batteries, some 2/00 cable, swaged connectors and a 42MT starter would eliminate the ether.
Starting the tractor from the seat has never been considered tacky either.
It’s hard to believe the tinkerer couldn’t wire in a key switch or push button starter switch to be operated from the operator’s seat. He did the other 98% of the job, why couldn’t he finish?
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Never said there is a shortage of Idiots that shouldn't be operating equipment
jay-eye-see
Member
I would have no problem working with the guy in the video. The important thing is that he made sure it was out of gear. I would fix it right for sure, but would not get worked up about needing to start it with a screwdriver for a few days or more if need be.
Sure I would. He made sure it was out of gear and his can of starting assist was away from sparks. Done the same thing many times. I even have used a factory Mercedes-Benz tool that does just what he did to bypass the start switch.Alligator clamps and a momentary pushbutton. Used it for years when setting valves to bump the engine over.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
WOW,,what is teh big deal about starting the tractor like that?? Yea I know it isnt the correct way to do it ,, but if you have nbeen around tractors or cars at all , ther are times you need to do it,
what attitude ?? he looked like he was just telling how he was doing it, took it out of gear, gave it throttle,went to startit, bendix slipped , he went to give it a bit more throttle and didnt have to, then started on teh next spin??
as far as not enough spinning rpm, my 8n spins slower than that sometimes?? bigger batteries??
no the nature of a 6 volt,,
I have donethat many times, if you have been around any type of tractors or cars I am surprised you never had to EVER do something like that,,
My backhoe actually needs to get started like that now becasue it needs a new wire run from teh switch to teh starter, in the cluster, I dont have the room in the shop for it so it is a nice weather project, I have to take off alot of tin and stuff, the diesel gets started that way,, is it right? probably not, is it safe? . as long as I know its out of gear and can get to it , I think so,, will I do it again ? probably ,, not many of my machines go to a "shop" to be repaired , and they do it that way in "shops" too,,''
maybe I saw a different video, 1900 cockshutt?
I didnt see any people around either that were running around or in teh way??
what attitude ?? he looked like he was just telling how he was doing it, took it out of gear, gave it throttle,went to startit, bendix slipped , he went to give it a bit more throttle and didnt have to, then started on teh next spin??
as far as not enough spinning rpm, my 8n spins slower than that sometimes?? bigger batteries??
no the nature of a 6 volt,,
I have donethat many times, if you have been around any type of tractors or cars I am surprised you never had to EVER do something like that,,
My backhoe actually needs to get started like that now becasue it needs a new wire run from teh switch to teh starter, in the cluster, I dont have the room in the shop for it so it is a nice weather project, I have to take off alot of tin and stuff, the diesel gets started that way,, is it right? probably not, is it safe? . as long as I know its out of gear and can get to it , I think so,, will I do it again ? probably ,, not many of my machines go to a "shop" to be repaired , and they do it that way in "shops" too,,''
maybe I saw a different video, 1900 cockshutt?
I didnt see any people around either that were running around or in teh way??
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I have been EMS & fire dept for thirty years plus. I would probably suggest more of a busy type actualy doing something inviorment, more so than the cluttered one. However it does just make good common sence to think saftey.
I will also admit myself that I am more likley to cause a accident or be involved in one after age fifty. That for sure does not compare to the snot knose, wild kid, and adult beverage part of my life.
I do often observe things that I can see going to happen with the hired men. I can see that when they cut the 2 x 12 off that the big chunk is going to drop on my power cord and cut it. I can acutaly see it in my mind when I tell them to cut it off. And they are all good hard trying guys. They just don't see it coming till after it is broke. The last few years I have been having the guys help fix things that should not have been broke in the first place...after hrs. that is. Often they don't charge me for their time either. Seems to cut down on breakdowns a little.
I will also admit myself that I am more likley to cause a accident or be involved in one after age fifty. That for sure does not compare to the snot knose, wild kid, and adult beverage part of my life.
I do often observe things that I can see going to happen with the hired men. I can see that when they cut the 2 x 12 off that the big chunk is going to drop on my power cord and cut it. I can acutaly see it in my mind when I tell them to cut it off. And they are all good hard trying guys. They just don't see it coming till after it is broke. The last few years I have been having the guys help fix things that should not have been broke in the first place...after hrs. that is. Often they don't charge me for their time either. Seems to cut down on breakdowns a little.
Kentb of SWMO
Well-known Member
Dad had a JD630 you had to lay down in under it to start it. We were taking the starter to a starter and generator man WHO DID NOT know what he was doing. He had screw the starter up which burnt out the starter switch. We finally go it fixed after the expert went out of business.
As a previous poster said, no amount of safety switches will replace common since and knowledge.
Kent
As a previous poster said, no amount of safety switches will replace common since and knowledge.
Kent
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Yes, I'm guilty of doing it, but jumping the starter on a tractor is just about one of the most dangerous things you can do. I try to make a habit of only starting my tractor from the seat, even though it has a working neutral switch.
Something that got my attention was the story of a fellow who tried to start his tractor and, for some reason, thought the switch was defective and didn't realize it was in gear. He hopped down, and shorted the solenoid with his pliers. I think the tractor must have had duals; at any rate he was unable to get out of the way and had his legs crushed by the tires. I don't know how he avoided being run over by the implement, maybe it didn't have one. At any rate, this took place out in a field. With nothing to stop it, the tractor started a slow arc through the field and about 15 minutes later it came around for a second pass and nearly got him a second time. It eventually ran into a ditch and got stuck. That story taught me that you really can't assume anything, and certainly you should never assume that a tractor is out of gear. Taking ten seconds to climb into the cab can save your life.
Something that got my attention was the story of a fellow who tried to start his tractor and, for some reason, thought the switch was defective and didn't realize it was in gear. He hopped down, and shorted the solenoid with his pliers. I think the tractor must have had duals; at any rate he was unable to get out of the way and had his legs crushed by the tires. I don't know how he avoided being run over by the implement, maybe it didn't have one. At any rate, this took place out in a field. With nothing to stop it, the tractor started a slow arc through the field and about 15 minutes later it came around for a second pass and nearly got him a second time. It eventually ran into a ditch and got stuck. That story taught me that you really can't assume anything, and certainly you should never assume that a tractor is out of gear. Taking ten seconds to climb into the cab can save your life.
Rollie NE PA
Well-known Member
Glen D Anderson
Member
"As long as you think before you act you will be alright"
That's the key!
That's the key!
Reminds me of an incident that happened at my Pa in laws. Old fellow that rented some land Died at the wheel of a White articulated Four Wheel drive, duals on all corners running at full throttle while doing some tillage work. Went out into the woods and finally got hung up on a couple trees. Rescuers could not get to him as the tractor was hopping up and down so much and the wheels were spinning so no one could climb into the cab. They finally had to wait till it ran out of fuel. Fortunately not long after the rescue squad arrived.
I remember going down to the woods and see the holes it dug and the skinned bark on the trees it tried to climb. Definitley would NOT have wanted to get caught by those duals!
I have a suspicion the old fellow went out the way he would have wanted. At the wheel of a tractor and left a story to tell!
I remember going down to the woods and see the holes it dug and the skinned bark on the trees it tried to climb. Definitley would NOT have wanted to get caught by those duals!
I have a suspicion the old fellow went out the way he would have wanted. At the wheel of a tractor and left a story to tell!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
One of the best $6 I've spent. Doesn't work for every situation, but it does for most.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber 35448
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber 35448
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I have a story about that. Dad's 40T JD was missing the crank. A local fellow was hand making copies of the factory crank so accurate one could not tell them apart. So for Christmas that's what Santa brought.
We all went down to the tractor shed on a bitterly cold winter morning with crank in hand.
The tractor had been parked since the last show in the fall.I checked the trans for neutral and while test fitting the crank. Noticed out of the corner of my eye but didn't think anything of my Father now perched upon the comfy warm sheep skin covered seat.
I was crouched down carefully sliding the crank into place. Then very slowly turned the crank while observing for anything to catch, drag and not scratch the paint.
There was a sudden "putt and a snort",the d*m thing was running and I was rather startled at the unexpected sudden sound and commotion/motion.
Dad thought I was just going to jump in there and try the crank. Instead of looking things over first. He had turned the ignition on and pulled the choke.
We all went down to the tractor shed on a bitterly cold winter morning with crank in hand.
The tractor had been parked since the last show in the fall.I checked the trans for neutral and while test fitting the crank. Noticed out of the corner of my eye but didn't think anything of my Father now perched upon the comfy warm sheep skin covered seat.
I was crouched down carefully sliding the crank into place. Then very slowly turned the crank while observing for anything to catch, drag and not scratch the paint.
There was a sudden "putt and a snort",the d*m thing was running and I was rather startled at the unexpected sudden sound and commotion/motion.
Dad thought I was just going to jump in there and try the crank. Instead of looking things over first. He had turned the ignition on and pulled the choke.
Walt Davies
Well-known Member
As a mechanic a have a small hand switch (not home made) to jump start the solenoid from the side of the engine. I don't particularly like the screw driver as it burns the connections but I don't see anything wrong with starting one this way. If one knows enough to put it in neutral and set the brakes then why not.
I also start my Case LA from the hand crank maybe I should stop this as its very dangerous.
Funny thing about safety they put shields on the PTO shafts in the early days but not on the U-joints.
Now they have these plastic things that last about 3 months in the field before they come apart and the farmer tosses them out.
Walt
I also start my Case LA from the hand crank maybe I should stop this as its very dangerous.
Funny thing about safety they put shields on the PTO shafts in the early days but not on the U-joints.
Now they have these plastic things that last about 3 months in the field before they come apart and the farmer tosses them out.
Walt
I dont see anything wrong with him.I rigged up a push button switch off of a diesel tractor and long wires with alligator clips on them to do this.I would just hook it up and put it where I could reach it by the seat,then set in the seat and start it.Out in the field if I need it,its a long ways away in the shop,I would use a screwdriver.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
I was gonna say, after putting both the main and range transmissions in neutral, and setting the parking brake, I've used a similar method to start a tractor with a mangled wiring harness.
Its not something done without forethought.
Like my uncle tells me, he has a good look at his fingers and thumbs before each time he starts his table saw or bandsaw.
Its not something done without forethought.
Like my uncle tells me, he has a good look at his fingers and thumbs before each time he starts his table saw or bandsaw.
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