Help buying hay rake part 2

Brought this info from my previous post
Here are my next questions on this topic:

Which side delivery rake does a better job the four or five bar? Does it matter?
Spring fingers or rubber?
Why are some fingers grouped in three?
Why have a hydraulic driven?
John Deere or New Holland heavier built?

Quoted:
There are four styles of rakes.
1. four bar with circular motion, like IH #5.
2. 5 bar (sometimes 4 bar) parallel motion.
3. Wheel.
4. Rotary.

Neglecting the ancient dump rake.

The four bar (I call it a beater) rake according to my machinery design text book kicks the hay at 5 mph when pulled at 3 mph. When I've raked with one in alfalfa I could see the leaves separating from the stems if I pulled it too fast. All the value of alfalfa hay is the leaf, the stem is just saved to hold the leaves.

The parallel bar rake (with the bars hinged to disks close to the plane of the bars) moves the hay at about the same speed as the ground speed, so when pulled at 5 mph, it moves the hay at 5 mph.

The wheel type rake is said to move the hay at 5 mph when its being pulled at 8 mph. So for fast work its much easier on the hay. When the wheels are driven by ground contact of the rake teeth, it can add some dust to the windrow which some horse owners don't appreciate, especially when they can't tell the difference between dirt and mold.

The most modern rakes are PTO driven rotary rakes and can be adjusted to treat the hay gently without adding dust from rake teeth against the ground.

Wheel rakes, like the Farmhand with short stiff teeth on a rigid rim, aren't as nice to the hay as those with long willowy teeth, but are cheaper to buy.

Gerald J.

Raked a lot of hay with JD steel wheel pull behind 4 bar with spring teeth. Did a good job. Had to push two passes together for the AC bailer. It depends on what you think you want?

The pinwheel rakes are the cheapest and they work pretty well.

If your only going to do 10 acres a year it doesn't matter if your doing 500 acres a year and feeding to a dairy then it is a different story.
The mor bars you have the slower they can run so easier on the hay. I like the wheel rakes for speed and price better than the old steel wheel John Deere and IH rakes we were using.

I'm looking at what's out there in my area and the price.
Seems like the side delivery rake is common around here for used stuff but yes, I would have to group-up two rows for my baler. If I found a wheel rake, how many wheels would be good to use to make a harrow for a JD 24T baler?

4 wheels will be plenty of rake and can be had at auctions for as little as $10. Those old balers are not like the newer high capacity balers, so my answer to how much is too much hay, is when you start having plugging problems and/or start breaking the baler, then you have too much hay.

Research a little history, a rake simialr to what was available at the same time as the 24T would be enough. That is not a very high capacity baler so a 10-12 wheel rake will build a windrow you won't be able to bale.

Just thought of something that has not been brought up here.

I know the old bar rakes are not the worlds greatest but I thought of a advantage to them. We all get in a bind now and then and in a "gotta go it's bout to rain" situation I have put grandma in the pickup and had her pull a bar rake. She never got the hang of put'n two passes together but she could drive round the feild toss'n to the out side with me behind her. Just an idea no one else has said.

Dave

"Which side delivery rake does a better job the four or five bar? Does it matter?"

I'd say the five bar. It'll turn slower if nothign else.


"Spring fingers or rubber?"

Spring. Rubber wears out quicker and are a lot more expensive to replace.


"Why are some fingers grouped in three?"

Probably easier to produce that way and more expensive to replace...


"Why have a hydraulic driven?"

Hydraulic drive, or PTO drive for that matter allows you to adjust the basket speed independant of ground speed. That could be an advantage in some situations. It would also help in heavy crop where a ground drive WILL slide and stall.


"John Deere or New Holland heavier built?"

Dunno on that one. I doubt it matters much.
I hate both with a passion. I have a NewHolland sitting in the weeds.

Kuhn rotary, all the way.

Rod

24t ok right there that tells me you need a roll bar rake.
What you really want to do is use equipment that went together at the time.
That combo was a mariage made in heaven.

I would go with a JD 5 bar rake or a NH 5 bar rake.
You could always get a IH or a new idea 4 bar cost less to get in the game. But you will end up getting a JD or NH any way so why wait?
Look for a NH 56 you will be happy.
I have a NH55 and like it.

For plain old grass hay or straw a four bar will be OK. If alfalfa or clover better plan on a five bar which will turn slower and cause less leaf loss/damage. I've got a JD but still think NH makes the best rake. However JD is good and parts are generally readily available. Agree with others that the hydraulic is good for heavy hay or combining windrows. However I have never been around any hay heavy enough to stop a ground driven, and never raked in wet enough conditions to suffer from drive tire slippage. A PTO driven rake wouldn't be a bad option, and the owners appear to like them. Less stuff to wear/break than hydraulic driven. I've got rubber teeth now but earlier rakes had steel. Never broke steel teeth "fingers" but have broken several rubber ones. Can't see any disadvantage to steel. Cheaper than rubber and they don't break as easily. Perhaps groups of three improve material movement and also allow trash (small stones and wood) to exit.

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I use a 5 wheel rotary it works quite well in light or heavy hay and if you set the speed correct and set the wheels to be about 2 to 3 in. off the ground it will roll the hay up real nice for the baler to pickup. I set the baler so that the pickup is above the ground level about 2 in or so since the row is twisted by the rake it will pick it up without the pickup wires hitting the ground. this keeps dirt and other objects out of the baler. I have seen small pieces of wood and Horse dumpling bounce along the hay till it fell off to one side and loose dirt will fall down below as there is a good clearance between the hay and the ground.
You can use just about any of them but the wheel rakes are much cheaper and have very little upkeep.
Walt