Need help ASAP...kinda OT...Kinda not

Brent in IA · Dec 30, 2008

I was headed to Wisconsin last week to pick up a loader for my son's Farmall and just about exactly halfway I blew the front seal on the tranny of my 1995 F350 Dually Gasser. I got towed 3 miles to the Ford dealer...only cost $145...$5 a mile + $85 to put the truck on the rollback and $45 to put my trailer on the rollback's hitch and tow it too....I am in the wrong business. Whoops..sidetracked, sorry. Well the service manager finally called me with an estimate today and they want $3,350 to replace the tranny, they don't "repair" them, they just swap them out he said. My son is going to do the repair instead but I need to tow it to his shop 100 miles away.

I have a car dolly that is rated heavy enough for the weight but I don't know how wide the front tires are outside to outside to make sure it fits on the dolly. I Googled a bit and found out the "track" is supposed to be 65 inches (is that to the center of each front tire?) and the overall width is about 79 inches (must include widest part of body/hubcabs/bumper, etc.).

Well my truck is 140 miles away so I was hoping someone on YTMag would have a mid-1990's F350 they could quick grab a front wheel measurement for me on. I have the stock tires, 21585R16. Any help would be appreciated, I don't want to get up there Wednesday and have it not fit. Thanks in advance.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 30, 2008

I can't answer your measurment questions but I have to say that the dealer must be absolutely insane. I would raise the roof with the Ford company. If that is how they build their trucks now, there is no Ford in my future. No wonder Detroit is in trouble.

bill mart · Dec 30, 2008

13 year old vehicle,how many miles,and how many were towing miles?

Brent in IA · Dec 30, 2008

101,000 miles. I am second owner and have put 25,000 of those on in the past four years, probably 10,000 with a tractor or load of bales on my gooseneck or bumper-pull car trailer. Always run in 3rd instead of Overdrive when it was loaded, fluid that came out was crystal (red) clear, not burned or discolored. Original owner was a retired couple who hauled their camper to Arizona every winter and drove this as their "car" while in AZ then hauled their camper back to IA and it sat all summer each year.

Brent in IA · Dec 30, 2008

(quoted from post at 15:16:43 12/30/08) I can't answer your measurment questions but I have to say that the dealer must be absolutely insane. I would raise the roof with the Ford company. If that is how they build their trucks now, there is no Ford in my future. No wonder Detroit is in trouble.

Yep, the local Ford dealer told me last year that if he took my truck into his shop to replace the leaky exhaust manifold gasket on one side I may be looking at $900- $1,000 total. He explained that they would likely break a stud off taking the manifold off, then they would have to pull the head to drill the stud out, then with 90,000 miles (at that time) they would do a valve job and would have to do both sides so the engine stayed balanced...blah blah blah...so a simple gasket replacement turned into a $1,000 job.

NO...I didn't have them do it at the dealer.

YES...you are right that Detroit and their business model is what got them where they are today. Shame on them. I really enjoy working my butt off everyday to pay for other people's mortgages, vehicles, and food. Needy folks - fine...greedy folks - no way!

CaseChev · Dec 30, 2008

David Snipes....how do you really feel ? How is Ford responsible for a 14yr. old truck that ruins a seal in the trans ???? What would you expect Ford to do ??? Would John Deere or Case IH do it as warranty after 14yrs ? Many times when a front seal blows out of an automatic trans, it is a sign of overheating. I hear all the stuff about the clear fluid etc. Many shops are now replacing trans with OEM rebuilts rather than rebuild in shop. That removes the variable of the workmanship of random techs on what have become very, very complex units. Without clear facts and first hand inspection of problem, you're just bashing.

Welding man · Dec 30, 2008

Don't even waste your phone call. I have a friend that spent $5800.00 on a 6.0 powerstroke at a Ford dealer. The truck didn't make it home,approximately 150 miles. The dealer wouldn't pay for the tow to have it brought back, so he had it towed home. He called Ford and they said ,Sorry it's out of warrenty, we can't help, it's for you and the dealer to resolve,luckly he paid with a credit card,and he protested the charges, it's not settled yet.

tbuzzard · Dec 30, 2008

My 99 f350 measures 78" Has 265 X 78 X 16" tires

DH in Carolina · Dec 30, 2008

My 1991 f450 measures 78" outside to outside.
My 1997 f250 HD is 76" outside to outside, but front hubs stick out past tire one inch. DH

Anonymous-0 · Dec 30, 2008

I'm with CaseChev on this one. It's cheaper to install a "black box" Ford reman tranny than it is to rebuild one these days. And the dealer may have been burned before by just replacing the front seal, then when something else went wrong with the tranny, "Well, it was OK before you guys put the seal in it!" By offering the replacement tranny, he's offering you something with a warranty. And since he already has to R & R the transmission, on one with over 100k miles it only makes sense to offer to replace the tranny to give you some peace of mind that a fresh tranny can give.

Oh, he could've offered to R & R the transmission, and heard about how it cost X hundreds of dollars for labor, just to replace a $10 [probably $25 these days] seal. So chances are, either way, there was something to complain about. He's just trying to keep the truck on the road longer, as a reman trans would do vs. just putting a seal in a tranny with over 100k miles.

Wasn't THAT many years ago, you'd have been lucky to have the truck get TO 100k miles, repairs or not.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 30, 2008

Your friend got screwed. Last I knew, Ford parts had a 1 year/12,000 mile warranty when replaced at a dealership. So if he spent almost 6 grand at the dealership for them to repair the truck, their repair job WAS under warranty...UNLESS the customer signed a disclaimer that waived any warranty on the work that was done.

So either he had some kind of repairs done that weren't what the dealer recommended, and had to waive warranty on that work....or there's something else going on that we're not hearing about.

KEB1 · Dec 30, 2008

So the question is, was the second breakdown the direct result of a failure of a part the Ford dealer replaced, or a recurrence of the original failure? If not, the dealer is right, he has no responsibility beyond what he replaced. If the dealer mis-diagnosed something, you might be able to make a case that you shouldn't be charged for all the extra labor & parts...

Can't understand why everyone on this board seems to take joy in being so negative about businesses.

Keith

KEB1 · Dec 30, 2008

"only cost $145...$5 a mile + $85 to put the truck on the rollback and $45 to put my trailer on the rollback's hitch and tow it too" That's why we have AAA, they would cover the tow.

How do you know its the front seal if you haven't dropped the transmission yet? Are you sure you didn't damage anything else if you ran it out of fluid? If you actually ran it out of fluid I'd be really leery of just replacing the seal and putting it back in.

By the time you figure labor to take the transmission out, flush the transmission cooler, the cost of a rebuilt transmission, re installation, and provide a year's warrantee on the rebuild, $3K doesn't sound that far out of line. If you get free labor from your son, that's obviously a big savings, but you also have to consider the cost & time involved in moving it.

Keith

Anonymous-0 · Dec 30, 2008

My guess is the track is c-c. I just measured a 95 f-350 drw 2wd ex cab diesel with 235/85r16. Outside to outside it is 76 inches to the outside of the tire not the hub. I also measure a 94 cc f-350 drw gas auto with 245/70r16 and it measures 73 outside to outside of the tires. I would guess your dolly would work.
As far as the tranny, that is one of the most expensive trannys out there to work on as far as light duty trucks are concerned. The have a lot of warpage problems caused by heat. The case warps and they won't hold the front pump seal. If you get a rebuilt one by any reputable shop they will tell you to do away with your factory cooler and run a aftermarket cooler cause the lines are too small to flow enough fluid. The AEOD is far from a good old c-6.

Brent in IA · Dec 30, 2008

(quoted from post at 16:30:28 12/30/08) "only cost $145...$5 a mile + $85 to put the truck on the rollback and $45 to put my trailer on the rollback's hitch and tow it too" That's why we have AAA, they would cover the tow.

How do you know its the front seal if you haven't dropped the transmission yet? Are you sure you didn't damage anything else if you ran it out of fluid? If you actually ran it out of fluid I'd be really leery of just replacing the seal and putting it back in.

By the time you figure labor to take the transmission out, flush the transmission cooler, the cost of a rebuilt transmission, re installation, and provide a year's warrantee on the rebuild, $3K doesn't sound that far out of line. If you get free labor from your son, that's obviously a big savings, but you also have to consider the cost & time involved in moving it.

Keith

I never claimed it was only the front seal. The dealer called me and told me that after they pulled it into their shop, they never dropped the tranny because I didn't give them a go-ahead to do so.

The flid dumping and seal blow-out was just a visible symptom, and was almost positively the end result of an underlying internal problem that likely caused pressure to build and take out the seal. I had just pulled over for fuel, got down the on-ramp and back onto the Interstate for about 1/2 mile when it started dumping fluid onto the exhaust pipes and I shut it down immediately to hopefully prevent any further damage.

I do think $3,350 is out of line for a rebuilt unit including R&R though, my son works at another Ford dealer and he can usually pull that tranny in about an hour or two and then a couple hours to put in the rebuilt unit, get it set right, etc. We may in fact put in a rebuild unit but until he cracks it open we won't know, if it only need a torque convertor and associated parts it is a $1,000 job. We just don't want to go off the worst case right away without even checking it out.

Many decades ago when I worked at a garage during high school and college I remember putting brushes and diode trios in alternators, putting carbs kits in, etc. and now the "repair" shops are just "replace" shops. So if it is more efficient and controlled to do the rebuilds offsite, which it likely is, and just do a replace onsite, why is the cost so high? Who is gaining from that efficiency...not the consumer obviously.

Wow...we sure took a tangent on this one. I just wanted to know how wide my truck was

Brent in IA · Dec 30, 2008

My insurance will cover the tow, just surprised that I got socked the extra $45 for hooking the trailer behind on his ball. Especially when I had to run the winch for him because the last guy that used the wrecker didn't spool the cable in smoothly and he had to fight knots all the way out off the drum. I didn't bother to bring up the fact that his cable should probably be replaced after being that abused, once they get those kinks they sure deteriorate fast.

davpal · Dec 30, 2008

My f-350 is 75 inches and the hubs stick out about 1 inch on each side. I would take it to the aammco transmission shop if you have one in the area. All it needs is a new front seal. Trans doesn't need to be gone through. Ford dealer is worthless if they can't change the seal and charge you the labor. Even that would probably cost 8-10 hours of labor at $85 per hour plus parts. Probably a $900 dollar job.

1936 · Dec 30, 2008

Well, I made a couple of calls when I was told the front trans seal on f 150 was leaking. Paid 200 cash and price of seal and a couple of hour waiting and down the road I went. Trans shop wanted 1500 for openers. Get on the phone. Should be able to drop and replace and reinstall trans in a couple of hours with a lift. One guy did 98 % of job.

Doug in Illinois · Dec 30, 2008

I used to have a 95 Ford Powerjoke diesel with automatic tranny. It made it to within about a mile of home after it started shifting real funny. I had went to an auction and bought a couple riding mowers, about 60 miles from home, both too wide to fit in bed. Anyhow, don't assume it is just front seal, Ford uses all kinds of electronics in the tranny, took my local tranny shop 3 rebuilts B4 one finally worked half way right. I dumped the truck in a hurry after that. DOUG

DickL · Dec 30, 2008

I had mine rebuilt twice at a transmission shop in Fort Wayne IN and thought that 1800 bucks was high.

Wesley Stephens · Dec 30, 2008

They don't call them stealerships for nothing.

Sid · Dec 30, 2008

You mentioned your son works at a dealer. Can't he get the info you want?

Welding man · Dec 30, 2008

I'd be the last person in the world to be negative toward business considering I have been in business for 31 years. I have worked on everything from tinker toys to Cat D-9 Dozers to at least 20 different brands of tractors, and if I hadn't taken care of my customers over the years I wouldn't still be in business.If i make a mistake i have to correct it. All I was trying to say was when you deal with big companies, like Ford, all you get is the run around. I had to threaten to sue a dealer to get him to replace a set of brake rotors on a new van, that I had bought from them and was still under warrenty and the had already turned them once. Yes the 5800.00 repair bill of my friend was dealer diagnosed and all the parts and labor didn't fix the problem.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 30, 2008

I would ask myself how much this 1993 truck is worth, if it were in excellent condition and you went to trade it on a new one they would laugh you off the lot right now. Figure this repair and add the next several likely repairs for a 15 year old work vehicle, upgrading to a truck less than 5 years old might look cheap.

teddy52food · Dec 30, 2008

Kinda like going to a doctor. They get paid if they help you or not.

landlord7012 · Dec 30, 2008

Never a dull moment when the "experts" come out of the woodwork - lol. Guy comes on here looking for simple data and gets almost everything but (except for two replies). I'm surprised the safety police haven't replied yet on the dangers of car dollys! Guess that's what makes forums like this fun.

Good luck (and safe hauling),
Bill

Drew · Dec 30, 2008

(quoted from post at 07:29:23 12/31/08)
Yep, the local Ford dealer told me last year that if he took my truck into his shop to replace the leaky exhaust manifold gasket on one side I may be looking at $900- $1,000 total. He explained that they would likely break a stud off taking the manifold off, then they would have to pull the head to drill the stud out, then with 90,000 miles (at that time) they would do a valve job and would have to do both sides so the engine stayed balanced...blah blah blah...so a simple gasket replacement turned into a $1,000 job.

Sounds about right. Dad has a 1995 F250 w/ 460 that we fixed the standard exhaust manifold leak on last fall. We went into the project knowing the heads were going to come off to remove broken studs. Ended up with 3 twisting off. I work at a machine shop, so the valve job was free (98k miles on heads). Replaced waterpump while everything was torn apart. Changed camshaft looking for a little more torque, which lead to new valve springs and a [i:ff537910a1]good[/i:ff537910a1] timing chain set. By the time it was all said and done, it was a $1000 to fix a exhaust manifold leak, and that was with "free" labor.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 31, 2008

That's what you get for buying a Ford. I hope all three go under.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 31, 2008

Hi CaseChev. I was responding to the man's apparent belief and statement that he only needed a new seal. 3 grand for a new seal is out of line. I also have a right to bash Ford trucks; may dad, my brothers and I have always been a Ford truck family. Each and every one of those trucks has had either premature enging or transmission failures or both. I guess we are slow learners. I think the only reason we kept buying Fords was that we did not like the Dodges and Chevys. My next truck will probably be a Toyota - they have earned my respect and Detroit has lost it.

bc · Dec 31, 2008

I had a 93 ford exploder. Probably had a lighter tranny than yours with the v6. Anyway, I was pulling a camper on hot 100 degree day and it blew about all the fluid out of the front drain hole in the bottom of the bell housing casting. Noticed it when it blew on the exhaust and smoked like crazy.

I was about a quarter mile from town. Drove in and let it cool down. It was a Sunday, went looking for the coop station manager in the small town. Bought a case of tranny fluid. Refilled it and drove on to New Mexico on vacation. Checked and added part of a quart every 100 miles or so for the next couple hundred miles. Then drove it in to Albuquerque without any problems. Went to the ford dealer and they just said it ran hot and no problem. Drove it hard pulling the camper through the colorado mountains and back home with no more problems or leaking fluid. Drove it another 100000 miles after that without any fluid leaks.

Brent in IA · Jan 3, 2009

Thanks!

Got it home yesterday just fine, had about one each of space on each side of hubs, 2 inches or so on tires. Didn't have a lick of trouble with the dolly. Kept it at about 55 on the highway to be safe.

Thanks again for all your help everyone.

Need help ASAP...kinda OT...Kinda not

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