Transfer switches, backup generators, ect....

With the "slew" of posts lately on backup generators, and transfer switches, I thought I would post this...

In my profesional master electrician and electrical contractor opinion, if you expect to have a power outage for long periods of time, or have intentions of running your house, farm, buisness, ect. off of a generator, INSTAL A TRANSFER SWITCH NOW!!! Do it before you need it, Chances are you may never need it. A manual transfer switch is not that expensive in the big picture. I would reccomend that a licensed electrical contractor install this equipment, and be inspected. How much money are you looking at???

100amp manual transfer switch $329.00
200amp manual transfer switch $510.00
400amp manual transfer switch $775.00

Depending on the situation, most generally these can be installed in 6 to 10 hours. There are several other options availiable also. If you wait till the power is out, you will be left to "afro engineer" a setup that usually involves pulling the meter, or turning off main breaker. NOT RECOMENDED, TO MUCH CAN GO WRONG!!! Call your local electrical contractors and get a quote, have it done right and SAFE!!!! MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!! STAY SAFE>>>>

Good sound information. Thanks I for one did not know of this transfer switch. Will check into more.

Our REA requires them for gen hookups, and will disconnect any customer found to jury-rig a hookup.

Larry 59, and any others who are interested, let me know where you are located, I am in SW Ohio, and we go into surrounding areas and states. This is the cheapest source of Transferswitches I know of. They are grade level NEMA 3 (weatherproof, for outside installations)

(quoted from post at 14:22:50 12/15/08) With the "slew" of posts lately on backup generators, and transfer switches, I thought I would post this...

In my profesional master electrician and electrical contractor opinion, if you expect to have a power outage for long periods of time, or have intentions of running your house, farm, buisness, ect. off of a generator, INSTAL A TRANSFER SWITCH NOW!!! Do it before you need it, Chances are you may never need it. A manual transfer switch is not that expensive in the big picture. I would reccomend that a licensed electrical contractor install this equipment, and be inspected. How much money are you looking at???

100amp manual transfer switch $329.00
200amp manual transfer switch $510.00
400amp manual transfer switch $775.00

Depending on the situation, most generally these can be installed in 6 to 10 hours. There are several other options availiable also. If you wait till the power is out, you will be left to "afro engineer" a setup that usually involves pulling the meter, or turning off main breaker. NOT RECOMENDED, TO MUCH CAN GO WRONG!!! Call your local electrical contractors and get a quote, have it done right and SAFE!!!! MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!! STAY SAFE>>>>

Click to expand...

Good advice. One thing I would say is that for a non-pro, reasonably knowledgable, handyman it is not difficult to install. It took about 3 hrs and that included drilling hole to the outside, putting a receptacle box on the brick exterior to accept the cord from the generator.

I would add that I should have got a 10 circuit switch instead of a 6-circuit. The 6 circuits allow me to have power to just about every room in the house, but for the few extra bucks it would have been worth it to add the microwave, workshop plugs, dishwasher, garbage disposal, i.e. non-essential stuff. My 13500/8500 generator has hardly been strained with the 6 circuits.

The best way to set these up...
Put your whole panel/service on a transfer switch. Turn off what you dont need. You can change what you want or dont want this way. Your generator has overcurrent protection to protect itself. Those rigs that can be bought at the "big box" should stay there...in my opinion....

For the cheap, several main boxes can be retrofitted with a slider switch that fits over the existing main breaker, and allows you to wire in a genset breaker & plug to your existing box. It basically ties your main breaker to the genset-in breaker, so the 2 of them can never be on at the same time.

This is not the cleanest setup, and not as nice as what Spark talks about, but it is a to-code option for some for less money.

--->Paul

I agree, transfer power to the entire panel then open the breakers to a couple of heavy draw items that a small generator can't handle.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TWB2012DR

#1 Someday you may have a larger generator.
#2 It's not as messy as pulling six,eight or 12 circuits out of the old breaker panel. And running them to the new Mickey Mouse Emergency panel.
#3 The bulk of the breaker panel loads are low draw ciruits such as lights. Why limit yourself with a little micky mouse panel and not be able to see what you are doing.
Problem is people get the blind tunnel vision and say " but it's all I need". Well duh, you have the power,need lights and it isn't going to coast you any extra. Why do you have to build hardship into the system? Then they answer back " but it's all I need". Can't think outside the box.
Why are some people in denial that floods or loss of power will never happen to them?
They have money for a diesel pickup they don't need, a suv, boat, atv, snowmobile, trips south, resturant meals, booze, smokes, 52" TV, every satellite station etc.
But they can't find the money for a transfer switch and a decent sized generator.

What do you like in a generator?

I've never had one, probably should here on the farm.

Seems a lot of cheap 3-10,000 small gas powered units out there. I do _not_ like little gas engines sitting around in the back of the shed with the mice, only to be pulled out when emergency strikes.... And likely in minus 5 degrees like right now. Don't really ever have a power emergency in summer, cattle are on a gravity feed cistern for water, nothing that needs power here other than the furnace in winter to keep the house warm. Can do that with an extension corn through the basement window, just I don't like another little engine sitting around gelling up.

I don't need the big spendy standby type that are waitong all the time - my REA is pretty good, only have had less than an hour at a time outages for over a decade, power is - currently - very reliable here. As well my needs are modest - I understand your comments, just saying this whole farm ran on 60 amps, so I have very modest needs. No need for anything huge.

I kinda like the pto generators, no engine to go bad, I got 6 tractors sitting around with 560 ptoso I should get one to fire up for it.... Could use it a time or 2 in summer with air compressor or small welder out in the field to keep it used & running.

Are the new ones like Northern Tool worth anything, in today's world everything uses a computer chip which wants clean power, while anything for sale on a home-owner's budget seems to be worse & worse value.

--->Paul

Good advice from you and my old buddy Buick Man. One should EITHER use a transfer switch or at least the cheaper option being a simpler slider type main lockout switch in your exisitng main service entrance panel.

Then dont forget design engineers (like myslef but too long retired and rusty lol) and electrical inspectors and most electricians like single point grounding and if you wanna get by with a 2 pole (L1 and L2 only, no Neutral switching) Transfer Switch to sever any Neutral to case/frame bond inside your portable generator.......I dont wanan re invent or rehash that whole can of worms all over again, myself and Buick Man and an electrical inspector covered that subject ad nauseum over on johnnypopper.com a year or so ago which a search could likely find......

yall keep warm n safe now

John T Toooo long retired EE

My backup generator is (hopefully tomorow if I have time) going to be a lincon 225 gen/welder. 10,000 watts of power will keep quite a bit running....
Last summer/fall when the hurricane came to visit (hurrincanes is SW ohio?? good grief) I was using my 5500w campell hausfeild. worked good, but I need another gen. anyhow to keep grandpa and grandma taken care of at the farm. That little camp. haus. gen. barley sips the gas, so it is good for lighter loads. I like to have hot food and hot shower...so im gettin a bigger one to!!! I like my toys....

Two of them.
A small gasser to take with camper trailer or run tools outside of extension cord range. And to run modest overnight loads on the transfer switch. It will start in cold weather and pre-heat the diesel if required too.
A pto powered generator that will start and run everything on the place as if utility power was on.
You pretty much get what you pay for. Even then look out for a Honda label stuck on a counterfeit chinese clone generator.
If it isn't brand name with a local reliable dealer with a shop and parts. Walk on past.

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TWB2012DR

There is one major difference to consider - some make genuine grid-type power, and most don't.

For the most part, you'd never notice the difference. But, with some things it does matter a lot - especially battery chargers.

Most cheaper portable generators don't match the normal 170 volts peaks and valleys of grid-current called 120 VAC and tend to run 150-160 volts instead.
Since most battery chargers only work in the upper 160-170 volt range, many generators won't work.

Once exception for small generators are those that are DC instead of AC. Yamaha and Honda make some nice ones. The Honda inverter series uses a DC generator run through a full-wave inverter. So, RPM doesn't matter in regard to the Hertz cycle. This means they can run slow and load-match, and also - make perfect power.

When I built my house I had the meter socket box with the sliding switch cover over the main all one box installed.At that time they were a new item and my rural electric company had not heard of them.Told me they would install it if the box was UL listed which it was.Much cheaper than a transfer switch.Mark

Howdy. I've got a 12kw PTO driven generator that does well for the house (keeps the lights, water and basic stuff on when needed) and looking at a solution that is cleaner than I currently use.

The link you provided (if I understand this correctly) would go between the commercial power meter and my panel. When "slid" in one direction, commercial power would feed the panel. When "slid" the other way, it disconnects commercial power and allows for power to be fed from a generator.

Correct?

Spark,
Thaks for alerting the service bulletin and words of caution on this.I was a little concerned by some of the weekend posts on how some where hooking up for temporary power.I had a transfer switch installed when I built the house.Has worked well when we need it.

Vito

I live in St.Clair.Shores Michigan just off Lake St.Clair and the power goes out here all the time.

I installed a 100 amp transfer switch three years ago and it was money well spent. We don't have a huge house but the 6000 watt 8500 surge generator powers everything real nice.

I have a external plug on the house that i plug the generator extension cord to.

I think it cost me something like $250.00 dollars to make the 40 ft cord with the correct ends so that there wasn't any amp loss.

We had several times this last summer that power was out for 12 to 20 hrs and my central air worked just fine.

We bought our transfer swith at Home Depot for $300.00 dolars and it has dual meters on it so you don't over load one bank over the other with things running in the house.

As a matter of fact we just bought another transfer switch for my parents for Christmas.

Had to run generators (pto/tractor) at both my place and my parents tonight for about 3 hours. The transfer switch and 25 KW gen. that was here went to their place when I upgraded to a 45 KW. Keeps things (including the guys working to fix the outage) safe. Well worth the cost.

Paul. The PTO generators sold by Northern Tool are about the best Kw vs Dollar vs Quality that you will find. There are more expensive brands like Winpower but the NT units are solid.

My father is an electrician here in Louisiana and he have many hurricanes and power outages. He installs several transfer switch setups anually. This past year he installed 7 during the hurricane season. He likes the 200 Amp Cutler Hammer manual switch. He can get them for about $400.

He has also bought, built trailer or 3 point carrier, and installed turnkey backup power using Northern PTO Generators. Most of the time a 13 kw is enough. The last one he did they wanted the 27.5 kw. We personaly have a 3 phase 15 kw Winpower.

Good luck.