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Is the auto bail out bill dead or what,anyone hear?

Didn't muster enough votes in the Senate. Congress went home for Christmas, Hannikah, Kwansa. Now up to GWB to divert money from TARP. Might need a lotta tarps in Michigan this winter, tarps with holes cut in 'em for stovepipes...........

Last I heard the union wouldn"t budge from their
position, that the contract ran for two more
years, and they wouldn"t talk about wage
concessions until contract renewal time.
BUT !, think about those thousands of workers
with mortgages, based upon a certain wage, who
couldn"t, maybe, make payments if wages were cut.
More homes in forclosure--more Govt. bailouts ?
A slip from recession to depression ?

Naw, its just a delay I believe. Now the White House is trying to get the money for the automakers.

The best thing that could happen is for the price of vehicles to come down. They're way too expensive compared to what peoples incomes are. The UAW is paid many times more than the average joe plumber.

That is a problem I`m a union worker and if it meant taking a wage cut and being able to keep my job ,home and food on the table I would take a pay cut.The trouble is will the money get distributed properly from a bail out or wage concessions or just line the ceo`s pockets.(retool private jets) not production lines.

According to today's newspaper, at today's rate of pay, the UAW worker makes $29 an hour...compared to $26 an hour for the "transplants" [foreign companies with US plants].

Holiday pay, vacation, and overtime costs the US companies $14 an hour, vs. $9 an hour for the transplants. Healthcare and payroll taxes is about a wash, with US companies paying $12 an hour vs. $11 an hour for the transplant companies.

The biggest difference in hourly cost to the US companies is retiree pensions and healthcare. For the US companies, it's $16 an hour,vs. $3 an hour for the transplants.

So take away the retiree costs, and it's $55 an hour in employee costs for the US manufacturers, vs. $46 an hour for the transplants...a MUCH more level playing field, don't you think?

And according to the information in the paper, in 2011 when the UAW is to inherit the employee pension funds--and expenses--the TOTAL hourly employee costs will drop to $53 an hour for the US auto companies...vs. $49 an hour for the transplants.

NOW how "overpaid" are those UAW workers?

Here's a link to the chart I cited, which is at the end ot this news story. According to the article, the UAW is NOT the source for these numbers; Ford Motor Co. is.
The Wage Gap

I think the big three will get gov. help. What concerns me is, who will be next? McDonalds, BurgerKing etc.
All this givaway money has to come from somewhere!

Another thing, once you start taking concessions where does it end? I've seen companies demand and get wage cuts and eventually close and move offshore anyhow. Who's suppose to buy things when wages are rock bottom? Just saw yesterday someone making minimum wage would have to spend 93% of his income to buy health insurance.

I just wonder who Congress is gonna demand a pay cut for next. Auto workers were just the first; since the whole country didn't get outraged, there WILL be more targets. It sure won't be those crooked bankers who started this financial mess, and it won't be doctors, lawyers, or legislators, either. But mark my words, this is only the beginning of attacks on American workers. Heaven help us before it turns into something that'll make the Great Depression look like a Sunday-school picnic.

Plow Hand you sound pretty rational about the situation. If it came down to keeping food on the table you would take the concessions. I have said the same thing. You can buy a lot more food and heat with a pay cut than you can with a job cut! We had that situation in St Johns Mi at the Federal Mogul plant. The 500 workers had the option of dealing with the company and were offered about $15 per hour instead of their current wage of $19 per hour. The majority of them figured they were better off working for $0 because they voted the offer down and they closed the plant. I thought that union should have been doing anything they could to keep that building going no matter what. Even if you have to work for $10 dollars an hour you have to do it. If your married, let the wife go earn some money too. The unions are in la la land. Gettlefinger is as dumb as a rock and arrogant. That is a very bad combination. They should throw him to the curb and get somebody in there that has half a brain.

Let me tell you all about health insurance. My wife has "pre-existing conditions," including diabetes and a history of heart problems.

When the plant where I worked at closed in 2005, I qualified for just under $400 a week in unemployment benefits...before taxes. Indiana withholds 10% for income taxes on unemployment. So figuring your average 4.3-week month, that figures just over $1500 a month after taxes.

But insurance--whether COBRA coverage or a private plan, because I priced both--would cost me $1200 a month. That leaves about $300 a month for mortgage, utilities, food, clothing, and medical expenses for copays and prescriptions [like insulin] before the deductibles are met. And at that rate of unemployment, I didn't qualify for food stamps or Medicaid or any other assistance.

So I went uninsured while I went back to school. After I graduated, I got a job that offered insurance. But I found out that, since I hadn't had insurance prior to this, I had a 1-year "waiting period" --while the insurance company still collecte premiums--before any of my wife's "pre-existing conditions" were covered.

So, effectively, for a year I got to pay the insurance company for NO coverage. At the "family plan" rate, that was $3,702 for a year of NOTHING. If my wife would've had another heart attack, since her history shows prior heart problems, that $3,702 would've paid NOTHING. Anything short of an auto accident or a broken bone would've been considered a "pre-existing condition," in the eyes of the in surance company.

So pardon me if I show little sympathy toward insurance companies.

Concessions are going to have to be made before 2011 or there will be nothing left.

Well the nnalert were the ones against it from the beginning,and as much as said one of the companies at least would not survive.I think they meant Chrysler.I doubt that the bail out is dead,but its not going to get through this Senate.Now nnalert are supposedly elected to support their constituents.However the ones making the big deal out of it have Foreign car plants in their state.They are trying to bust the union.Next,once they get the union busted,they will want lower and lower pay.That seems sort of treasonous to me.Like the nnalert are cutting workers pay,and supporting foreign interests,plus eliminating American jobs.Now on the other hand unions may need to do a little more to help their company out.To my way of thinking right off at the start,for nnalert to say one of you is going to fail,is loosing more jobs,than just denying everything else to protect the foreigners,blaming it on the unions,is trying to have their cake and eat it too.They will be gone in a month anyway.As bad as it is that these companies had to ask for help,because instead of loaning them money the bailed out banks are buying foreign debt,and not loaning American businesses money.Not just auto companies either.I would bet that not a nnalert anywhere will even say a word to the banks that wont loan American companies money,yet they will allow them to squander every penny of that bailout money on foreign debt,crushing American companies,using our own tax dollars to do it.I bet 75% of them are too ignorant to even know thats whats happening.Yet they will put up all kinds of hoops for American companies to jump through,and still wont help them.I wouldnt think it would be a good time to be a powerful southern nnalert,that will go down in history as causing the collapse of American industry.It would be a lot better for them to fail by trying,rather than be dragged down by ignorant biased Senators who are obviously in the pocket of foreign automakers.

I noticed Harry Reid voted against it.

Just to add fuel to the debate here about UAW pay. I have a nephew who lives in Michigan. He is a UAW member and worked for GM. He was laid off earlier this year. Guess what he still gets a paycheck, his benefits but get this, since hes laid off and considered unemployed, even though he stills gets his check and benefits he also is eligible and receives and unemployment check from Michigan.

He told me the other month that he is making more money now, by being laid off then he was working on the line for GM. And of course hes for the bailout.

Whats wrong with this picture?

I would consider Reid an "ignorant" Southern senator as well.

In these precipitous economic times, watch for efforts to roll back the minimum wage as well. But don't expect any calls for cuts in the pay of doctors, lawyers, and bankers.

In Louisville, KY, the budget shortfall there has the mayor wanting to cut the pay of police, fire, EMS personnel, as well as cutting back on other city services...while the city's multi-million dollar commitment to a development deal with the Cordish company goes forward. As the Commonwealth of Kentucky deals with budget shortfalls, one of the first areas the legislature wants to cut back is education...and we all know that Kentucky already rates near the bottom in dollars spent on educating their kids.

Sounds like there's something seriously wrong with the priorities of our government representatives.

Michigan is sure different then Alabama. You can't draw unemployment benefits while drawing a check from your former employer!
When I was laid off, I signed up for unemployment and was informed that since I worked Sunday of my last week, I was not entitled to the next week benefits. They consider Sunday as the first day of the week.

I call him greedyfinger

Check your calendar. Sunday IS the first day of the week.

When the UAW plant where I worked closed, it was in Ron Gettelfinger's original home county.

And Gettlefinger didn't lift a finger to even say "Sorry 'bout yer luck," much less try to help us out.

So where it comes to Ron Gettelfinger, I givethefinger...the middle one.

THANKS for the advise. In every job I have ever had, MONDAY is the first day of week. Does your paycheck go from Sunday to Sunday?
I asked the woman if her week started on Sunday and she informed me she didn't work Sunday.

The supplemental unemployment you speak of comes from a fund set up by the UAW years ago. The workers gave a nickle an hour to the fund instead of receiving a wage increase. Each week you worked gave you a half credit so in two years you could acquire 52 credits. If you were laid off you could draw supplemental unemployment for one year cause each check was one credit. You didn't receive the supplement until after you got your unemployment check from the state. So you can see that he was only drawing money from an account that he already paid into, in effect he't drawing his own money. rw

trucker40, We must think alike. My thoughts exactly. Most people don't see the nnalert game plan. I've been watching this deal with the big three. Listening to both sides. Trying to fit together the pieces of the puzzle. I put the puzzle together a couple nights ago, while watching television. Guess I'm not the only one who see's the corruption. I'll stop before I say something I regret.