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Just thinking about the car situation OT

A

Animal

Well-known Member
The weather here in Mo. is terrible, so I have some think time today which can be dangerous! How many of you remember the Chevy II and the ford falcons of the sixties? I had a Falcon with 144 straight 6, got 30 m.p.g. all day long, four could ride comfortable, radio heater and rubber floor coverings. This car cost as I recall right around 2k new, had well over 100,000 when I sold it, still ran decent used about a quart of oil between changes. You had to change plugs and point every third oil change, but that was all I had to do to that car. My question is in this day and age can we go back to that basic of a car and small truck,with electronic ignition, radial tires and do away with all the creature comforts? If such an auto could be purchased for $5 K would they sell? As it is now I will never buy a brand new car, I refuse to take the hit depreciaton, insurance and taxes, but on a 5000 dollar purchase I would do it.
 

I remember those cars. Simple, inexpensive, easy to work on, and cheap to operate. Todays cars, with the exception of creature comforts, are not one bit better than what we had in the sixties.
 
I had a Falcon , great little car . I agree about going back to the past models . Get rid of the push buttons and the gadgets and I bet theyed sell more than people think and make them so WE can repair them . I want a new 89 4x4 chevy pickup !!
 
My dad tells the story of a Studebaker car late 50's ? early 60's ? that he could pull a boat and 6 adults and get 20 + MPG ? Hey it's my Dad I only kinda listened , I don't have the exact figures straight. LOL

All the laws we have here in the USA mandating air bags and flimsy bumpers and who knows what else ? will keep a cheap simple car or truck out of our reach. These type vechicles are still being made and sold in other countries.
 
Your 89' musta been better then my 83' Chevy as mine was totally problematic. Dad still has an 81' F350 that has been a pretty good truck. Never driven in the salt and is mint with no rust too.
 
No 5 MPH bumpers, no shoulder belts, wouldn't pass a federal crash test, no emission controls, wouldn't pass 50,000-mile or 80,000-mile EPA emission requirements...so they wouldn't be legal to sell here in the US.

In 1999 I bought a pickup truck with about 58,000 miles from the dealerhsip where I worked...got it for a lot less than book price, because the truck didn't have a/c. Used truck manager said it wouldn't sell [at retail] in today's market with no a/c.

Back in about 1970-'71, GM came out with the Vega, Ford had the Pinto, and AMC came out with the Gremlin. All 3 could be had as "stripper" models, with a FOB list price of right at $2000. Basic transportation, no more, no less. And the public shunned the stripped models in favor of the better-accessoried versions.

And in 1986, Hyundai came to America with a stripped car that started ar a MSRP of $5295, and got 30+ MPG...and people wanted the ones with automatic, a/c, and lots of frills instead. The Hyundai dealership where I worked had a stripped 1989 model that sat on the showroom floor until the 1991 models came out, simply because nobody wanted the "stripper." But we certainly had one if anyone wanted it.
 
Oh yes I remember the 67 blue Falcon convertible that my classmate Barbara Bowen drove.

She would always stop by the Gulf station where I worked on her way to the lake...........................................................................................................

Sorry about that...

Fainted from recalling the image of her wearing a bikini in her convertible, I'm OK now.

I will admit that my preference is older model vehicles because they are inexpensive to maintain.

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Less money spent on vehicles means more money to buy old tractors!
 
I`m drivin one and it aint nothin like a 2009 . Like alot of chevys it needs a body . I do all my own work on my 89 . wont touch my wifes 05 .
 
Well, except that now they often go to 200 or 300K without
major work, allow occupants to survive incredible crashes, rarely
need tuneups, accelerate like crazy, handle so much better, can
start and drive off in the cold etc etc.

And I think the gas mileage people recall is a little bit optimistic,
I've got all kinds of old magazines that listed the new tested
mileages and they never match up to what people post here.

I love the simplicity of old vehicles but there are a lot of things I
don't miss. I'd say the best spot maintenance wise for a lot of
brands was early 90's. TBI had eliminated a hundred feet of
vaccum tubing. Most had no air pump, the computer had maybe
5 sensors and the engine compartments were clean. Computer
only ran the engine.

By mid 90's we were back into a mess of vaccum circuits,
computers with dozens of sensors and a mass of wiring, and it
ran a dozen other things. What a nightmare to diagnose!
 
Yep, remember those 60's cars, my first 2 vehicles where Pontiacs, 63 Tempest and 63 Lemans, slant 4's, they got lows 20's at thier best. And I do believe that most of the so called economy cars of the time would be hard pressed to get more than mid 20's when driven the way and speeds that todays vehicles are driven. Not many carburated vehicle did more then 100,000 miles without major work and a lot of tune ups to get it, and none of them would start as good when it gets really cold as these new fuel injected cars and trucks do. While in a great many ways I would like a simpler vehicle then I have now: I do like my power windows, AC, power mirrors, sliding rear window, flip a switch 4 wheel drive on the go; 2002 Dodge Dakota quad cab with 152,000 miles, on its 3rd set of upper ball joints, second battery, second gas cap, second set of spark plugs, a few head lamp bulbs (a real pain to change), a couple of brake and tail lights, numerous oil changes, all work has been done by myself at my place. None of my previous vehicles have done better when I really look at them closely, however I don't really like it. But I can't complain about it either.
Over 20 vehiles since the mid 60's.
Lou
 
In the middle 1970's, I had a Fiat 850 Spyder roadster. Watercooled rear engine, 4 speed stick, strictly a 2 seater.

I had more dang fun with that car! It sounded and felt like a Ferrari when you drove it, but with 47 cubic inches and 51 hp you could drive the he11 out of it and not get too far outside the law. 55 mph was 3800 rpm. It was redlined at 7000, and it would go there in the bottom gears. Plus it got 34 mpg when everyone else was getting 12-14. It only had a 6 gallon gas tank. The only time I put the top up in the summer was if it was raining.

I wish I still had it.
 
I had one. A hand brushed,(with silver roof coating)easy on gas, and was simple to operate and take care of. The Good old days(?!?) are gone.
 
Alot of engine life depends on maintenance, typically ran my small block Chevys 150-200K with minimal problems. Years of having "defensive driving" pounded into me have thankfully helped me avoid crashes. Handling is more an improvement in tires/shocks since there is very little difference in the rest of the suspension. I agree that performance and driveability are way above the old carbed engines. Remember that a bunch of those old Studes, Chevy II, Falcons had a manual shift WITH overdrive, 1964 Malibu-283/two barrel;three speed overdrive,2.36 rear gear=30Mph,no power took forever to get to 60 but once there engine ran 1600 Rpm.
 
Yeah, the good old days. My first car was a '64 Ford Custom 500 with a 289 v-8. Great car, got 15mpg, no seat belts, no abs, no air, no fuel injection, no power steering or brakes, bias belted tires that got 20k miles if you were lucky. It also needed frequent tune-ups, didn't like to run in the rain, and the automatic choke never gave me a good idle. It also had plain non coated steel so it rusted out in a few years, unlike todays 409 stainless exhuast systems and galvanized sheet metal. I could go on but I think I made my point. By the way, adjusted for inflation, todays vehicles with all the government mandated safety features and other improvements are still a bargain.
 
In 1984 I was a young soldier, not married very long, without much money and a long way from home needing a car. Had to be a classic and possibly a muscle car. At that time (probably still today) outside Military installation was a bunch of fly by night dealers to take advantage of the situation. One lot had Chevelles and a couple of Mustangs in varying conditions for around $2k with instant financing. There was a back lot with cash cars that were the unpopular versions. All the way in the back was a '64 Buick Special for $350. Bench seats, no seat belts, AM Radio, and a v-6 motor. Original paint was oxidized but there. 400 bucks later, I had the car and a set of Cragar wheels that were laying in the corner. Spent a weekend cleaning and polishing and drove it to work.
My generic Chevelle that was like a Timex and easy to work if necessary.
Wish I had it now.

Dave
 
65 - 66 ??? Chevy (not sure exactly which year the wrap around windshield went away)

I had a pea green 66 GMC. V6 2sp power glide. Crome front bumper and lights.

Loved that truck.....
 
I've got my grandpas 87 Chevy S10 and wouldn't trade it for the world. It has over 167k on it, still gets around 20mph and runs like a top. He got it used and my uncle had it for a while after grampa died. It sat in a hayshed for a few years before I got it, Put in a new batterie and it fired right up.
Other than general mantinence and a new master brake cilinder I put on a few weeks ago, its all origanal.
 
You know I think I remember my dad saying something about playing bumper cars in the old cars with no ill effects cause the were build so good then. Have to ask him about that.
 
I have been wondering:

Since the car manufacturer's problems are related to lack of sales, how about the government give us all $10,000 to buy a new car? I for one would be willing to spring for new wheels and help the economy out. They are giving the auto guys money anyway, how about us working guys getting some direct benefit?

This should stimulate some discussion.
 
My first car was a 62? Chevy II. My dad bought it used, then it got passed down to my brothers. But the new cars are much safer and last longer.
 
Had a 64 Chevy II nova. First new car. It only got 20 mpg hwy. My 01 chevy silverado will do that. The new cars i have owned thru the years have been far better than the ones in 60,70,80. Current buick lasabre (04) will get 26-30 mpg with power to spare & zero repairs in 4 years.
 
had a 69 chevell in 71, funny thing never knew how many mpg, and never much cared! even dumped sunoco 260 in!
 
I don't understand many of the replies to this post.
I am 63 years old and have had virtually every size and make of automobile.
I have never had an older car that would get the gas mileage some have stated.
Today's cars are much more fuel efficient, have more performance and last over 200K
A vehicle the size of the old Chevy II could be made today that wold easily get 30-35 MPG in town, but it would not have enough power to satisfy many.
Todays cars are too powerful and too heavy to get substancial gas mileage.

In conclusion, here is something else to think about--Nearly all auto manufacturers produce a vast majority of front wheel drive cars. This type vehicle can be mass produced much cheaper then RWD
When they first came out, they boasted about them having more traction. WRONG they give you more control!
My I.H. tractor want even come chose to backing up a steep hill, but it will lift the front end going up forward. What about a riding lawnmower? It will do the same thing.
They also bragged about the FLAT floor. Show me a front wheel drive with a flat floor made today!
I may be old fashoned but I drive a rear wheel drive autommobile.
 
Hey... you know if the government gives money to the common man, that's socialism! If they give it to the 'Big Three', that's being patriotic... or so the experts tell us.

Rod
 
94 Honda del Sol (2 seater targa top based on the Civic) 42 mpg all the time no problem. Very reliable, easy to maintain and repair, etc. 1.5 liter 4-cylinder and a 5-speed. Paid $4k for it with 100k on it.

100_0173.jpg


Pretty much any mid-90's Civic HX, VX, CX, or DX will make 40 mpg with a 5-speed, even the 4-doors.

For a step up in creature comforts and power, let's go to the 96 Thunderbird LX 4.6 v-8 automatic. Not real good mileage around town, but at 75mph on the interstate I would make 30 mpg consistently. Had a 95 model that did the same. Nice cars, of course Ford quit making them.

Got the 96 with 66k on it wrecked for $900, put $1500 in repairs, drove it a while and sold it for profit.
tbird2.jpg

Here's the 95 paid $7k for it in '01 with 70k on it:
3_4_front_drive.jpg



The point is, there are reasonably priced used cars out there that make decent mileage for well under $10k.
 
Sure, anything is possible. Tata in India came out with a car for two thousand bucks earlier this year. The market in India for simple, inexpensive cars is HUGE.

Now, back here in the US, why don't we have cheap, simple cars? The number one reason is that they aren't that profitable. There are certain costs fixed into building a car: Federal safety and emissions requirements, product liability, shipping, not to mention the development costs. For most of the past twenty years, domestic auto makers have had a hard time building cheap cars that they can sell for a profit. Light trucks, on the other hand, were in big demand and could be sold at a huge profit.

Another thing to consider is people's expectations. You can sell a simple car in a lot of foreign markets, but US drivers expect many more amenities these days: air conditioning, power windows and locks, power steering, power brakes are all things that are pretty much standard. But they weren't even available as options on the base cars of the '60s.

The closest thing to "strippers" these days are some of the small pickups such as the Chevrolet Colorado. These vehicles are available with four cylinder engines, manual transmissions and without power windows and locks. But even the small pickups offer amenities that you couldn't get in the old strippers: air conditioning, power steering, air bags and brakes that actually work.
 
Had a brother in law with an old buick. Telling that had over 100 thousand miles and never changed the plugs. Guess what< When he tried to change them, couldn't get'm out.
 
Well,when you take it to Ford,they put it on a computer and you spend 300 dollars,then it still doesnt fix it,plus I spent more than that trying several things,it gets to where it costs way more than its worth to fix them.All of the ones Ive had with an electric fuel pump have had to have that replaced,at from about 125 to 85 dollars.The old kind of fuel pump costs less than 20 dollars.When I had to replace something on top of my DOHC 4.6 it took a day and a half,plus I had to get a girl with a small hand to start one of the bolts.Changed that motor,had to cut it out with a torch.I think they made them not to be worked on by average people.My opinion might be biased because its mostly Ford I had trouble with.For my 2 1988 Chevy pickups I ran one 100,000 and it had 115,000 on it when I got it.It didnt run all that good,burnt lots of gas,and had to put a new fuel pump on it twice used about 3 quarts of oil in 2000 miles.I dont see the big advantage,theres still lots of old Chevys running with a carburetor that have that many or more miles.Metric sockets and wrenches dont make much difference,its just the time they started making things you cant work on.The newer stuff doesnt rust away as bad.Now the real new stuff that Ive seen is way worse as far as fixable.Lots of vehicles running around with check engine light on,but they still run.I guess what I was saying is the maintenance is way more on the new stuff,unless you are a company mechanic you probably dont know what to look for,and some things are hard for anybody to figure out.Ive worked on lots of things and working on new vehicles makes me want to quit being a mechanic.It also makes me think that it could be made easy to work on,even if they have to lower some standards,so we can be able to buy them.I wont ever give them 30 or 40 thousand for their stuff unless I win the lottery.If they could build something comparable to the old cars for 5 or 6 thousand lots of people here and in other countrys would probably buy them.
 
My idea was to give everybody $100k, before they ever gave it to the banks.
This would have stimulated the economy. Money would have naturally went to the banks because of the ones who would have saved or paid off their mortgage, credit cards, or cars. The car companies and every other type of retailer would have had big sales.
 
Thanks for the compliment [b:654c4848f0]ericlb[/b:654c4848f0].

My father bought that truck new in '65 for $1,700 cash.

Truck is back on the farm and sees "light" duty.
 
If they would just get rid of the computer crap in cars, I have a 99 Ford explorer Has some weired electical problems, sometimes a airbag warning lite comes on than goes away, sometimes I get a blinking overdrive warning lite,& it goes away, Than when it's cold out side I get a door ajar warning, some times I have all the stupid waring lite's on the sametime. drive me crazy, also my 99 dodge caravan on it's third transmission, who Ideal was it to put a computer in a hot transmission oil?, You would think the manufacture would want to make a reliable product to keep you as a future customer. Dave F.
 
If they would just get rid of the computer crap in cars, I have a 99 Ford explorer Has some weired electical problems, sometimes a airbag warning lite comes on than goes away, sometimes I get a blinking overdrive warning lite,& it goes away, Than when it's cold out side I get a door ajar warning, some times I have all the stupid waring lite's on the sametime. drive me crazy, also my 99 dodge caravan on it's third transmission, who Ideal was it to put a computer in a hot transmission oil?, You would think the manufacture would want to make a reliable product to keep you as a future customer. Dave F.
 
If they would just get rid of the computer crap in cars, I have a 99 Ford explorer Has some weired electical problems, sometimes a airbag warning lite comes on than goes away, sometimes I get a blinking overdrive warning lite,& it goes away, Than when it's cold out side I get a door ajar warning, some times I have all the stupid waring lite's on the sametime. drive me crazy, also my 99 dodge caravan on it's third transmission, who Ideal was it to put a computer in a hot transmission oil?, You would think the manufacture would want to make a reliable product to keep you as a future customer. Dave F.
 
This is a big problem with auto makers too much crap piled on cars and trucks.I would still be running my 77 Chevy C20 if the road salt had not eaten up the chassis.The Chevy had a heater and radio, nothing else.No pollution crap.Pcv valve thats all.The truck has a 1/4 million miles on it.I put 100,000 on it ,cost 1300.00 used.I put a new starter and water pump on it and lots of exhaust parts.Brake shoes and pads once.One new heater core.A few small items on the engine.Several batteries were needed.
 
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