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Who killed the electric car

It was killed by the lack of operating range. I just read an article in Forbes that their isn't enough lithuim to make the new battarys plus the supply is in the hands of crooks outside USA. Just another opec deal.
 
Because nobody has discovered the "Star Trek" technology.
At this time the nobody can carry the energy of 25 gallons of hydrocarbon fuel. In the space or weight that 25 gallons of hydrocarbon fuel occupies.
Closest would be the formation of alcohol from methane and nuclear steam. The methane can be made from anything organic, doesn't have to be from natural gas.
An electric car has roughly the speed and range of a male professional bike rider.
 
The "Plug In Hybrid" still showing some promise, I think- few will buy an all electric with its limited range, but would love one that goes up to 40 miles or so on a recharge (plenty for most round-trip commutes), but can also be used as a hybrid with gasoline for weekend trips, with unlimited range. The Chevy Volt is still in developement, I think, at least until GM goes broke.
 
I used to get kind of excited about the Volt. I have a long commute and the idea of a plug-in hybrid seems like it could be a great money saver.

However, it seems that GM is up to it's old tricks on this one. Even though the car will have an onboard generator for powering the car when the batteries drain, it will NOT recharge the battery while it runs like a normal hybrid does. I can't think of a legitimate reason to design it like that except as an effort to make it less fuel efficient.

To be truly efficient these cars should be charging the battery the whole time they are operating including by using energy that is captured during braking.
No
 
per google:

Currently, the US is the leader in lithium ore mining.
"Chile was the largest lithium chemical producer in the world; Argentina, China,
Russia, and the United States were large producers also. Australia,
Canada, and Zimbabwe were major producers of lithium ore
concentrates."
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lithium/450301.pdf


"Approximately 50% of U.S. production came from spodumene ore in Bessemer
City, North Carolina (Lithco), 25% from spodumene ore in Kings Mountain,
North Carolina (Foote Mineral Company), and 25% from brine in Silver
Peak, Nevada (Foote Mineral Company). Chemetall sourced most of its sales from
Foote Mineral in the United States."
http://doc.tms.org/ezMerchant/prodtms.nsf/ProductLookupItemID/JOM-9805-27/$FILE/JOM-9805-27F.pdf?OpenElement
 
You should watch this. Chrysler is ahead of the curve and will release these vehicles in 2010 to fleet and 2012 to public.

https://www.chryslerllc.com/en/innovation/envi/overview/
 
Well, wouldn't that rasp ya'. So, after you run out of juice and the gas motor/generator starts running the electric motor, what kind of mileage do you get?
 
Something like that. I was gonna say the brain dead idiot that hasn't invented a reliable battery yet.
 
I am not at all impressed with the Chevy Volt with its 40 mile electric cruising range. I think with limited supplies I could build one out in my garage that could do that. My neighbors kids drive their EZ GO electric golf cart 50 miles a night around their house after they get out of school. GM is going to have to do better than EZ GO or they might as well hang it up. Give me a 2 liter 3 cylinder turbo diesel that gets 60 mpg in a Ford Escort sized vehicle. That shouldn't be too hard to come up with.
 
The electric car at GM was done as a PR exercise. Period.

GM had to subsidize purchase with $10,000 rebate...everybody wants mileage and a clean environment...they just don't want to pay for it.

The batteries were huge, heavy and most of all environmentally unfriendly to charge/dispose of and were a legal nightmare...lawyers kill all innovation.

GM could easily build a very sophiscated EZ Go golf cart for the road...except it would have to meet all crash test and EPA regs that a golf cart doesn't.

GM has scientists and engineers to rival any company in the world...I worked in a non engineering non-scientific role in the same bldgs for several yrs.

If every American could visit the GM labs at the Tech Center and facilities around the world, GM stock would be trading at $100/share...instead, we get all our info from media talking heads who drive Land Rovers and Range Rovers to work in Manhatan....talk about quality and mileage ????
 
Batteries have got to get a lot better and cheaper first. The electric car part is pretty easy. Far simpler than internal combustion engine.
 
My sons BIL bought I think a Chevy hybrid 4yrs ago, 150k bumper too bumper warranty with NO time limit, $22000 and change OTD, a medium sized car.

He says. for a work vehicle, if he spends $40mth in gas, he starts looking too see how many miles he's driven or if he's got a problem.

I'll see him for Thanksgiving and will get the low down on what he's got and see the hard numbers as I want one if that's true.

His is suppose to be using super-capacitors for battery's.

T_Bone
 
German VW 1.8 TDI gets about that mileage now. I used to get over 45mpg from a 1981 VW rabbit diesel. Brothers diesel Escort gets about that- was a 2 liter 4 German pattern. A 3 wheeler like Daihatsu Midget or Indian Bajaj get 60/70 mpg and is mostly street legal here in most places- legally classed as a motorcycle or motordriven cycle. Electric 3 wheeled golf carts slightly modified used on a few streets- again they are classed as motorcycle and don't need air bags and crash bumpers. Something like TriHawk with a 400lb battery pack and under 150cc generator engine to charge on highway could be use 2 seater- in Wisconsin under 1500 hundred pound trike with a cab is a class 2 motorcycle(DOT example is Cushman) and can be street licensed- a electric trike version meeting weight standards about 1200 pounds is used in Madison by wrecker outfit -Schmidts- as a downtown service/trouble call vehicle, rechraged overnight, cheap runner. Electric car may be legally difficult but the 'Motorcycle' loophole is being used. RN
 
There was an article on MSN a month or so back telling how Ford has a new vehicle around the same size as an escort that will get I believe 40 or 50 mpg. Its a diesel. However, they arent releasing it in the US because they're afraid it wont sell because everyone is on the "hybrid kick". I realize a hybrid is in most cases more environmentally friendly but diesel is pretty darn efficient and with the new technology its not near as bad for the environment as people tend to think. They were also supposed to be doing something along those lines with an escape sized vehicle as well.
 
There was an article on MSN a month or so back telling how Ford has a new vehicle around the same size as an escort that will get I believe 40 or 50 mpg. Its a diesel. However, they arent releasing it in the US because they're afraid it wont sell because everyone is on the "hybrid kick". I realize a hybrid is in most cases more environmentally friendly but diesel is pretty darn efficient and with the new technology its not near as bad for the environment as people tend to think. They were also supposed to be doing something along those lines with an escape sized vehicle as well.
 
I wondered why most of these electric vehicles didn't have a roof full of solar cells.

There are air powered vehicles. One I read about had 60 mile limit w/ 30 mph top speed. Not good for general all around use. Had a gas engine, I guess a gas powered air compressor. Said over 100 mpg. Till they over run the place it looks like you could drive around for cheap to free till the garages figured out when you ask for air, you're getting a free fill-up.
 
You can't cheat the laws of physics and chemistry.
There is no way to store enough energy in a small, light and safe package.No matter what the cost/
 
The electric vehicles built by GM and others were in response to legislation in California requiring 10 percent of vehicles sold in that state to be "zero emission" vehicles by 2003. GM had little choice: either develop an electric car or leave the California car market. (Even though Californians tend to favor imports over domestic vehicles, the huge size of the CA market still means a lot of business for the Big Three.)

There can be little doubt that GM sunk considerable investment into the design, engineering and manufacture of their electric car. The only problem was that the market wasn't really there. GM lost money on every car they leased. (GM refused to sell the vehicles; you could only lease them.) In the end, the automakers chose to sue California to relax the zero emission mandate, as there was no way (short of giving them away) that they could sell enough electric cars to meet the 10 percent zero emision vehicle mandate.
 
Randy where have you been hiding? How is the working for yourself going? Stop in over at Howard`s new site. Kevin
 
any body remember the "citi car" electric car that was sold in the 1970's in the U.S.? here is a link, if you google vanguard citicar a whole bunch of information comes up. did about 40 mph, range about 60 miles.
and if you are really adventureous google the ford nucleon, that was a concept car ford had on the drawing boards in the late 1950's/ powered by an atomic reactor!!!!!!!!!!! but dont worry, the reactor was in the very back of the car to keep radiation away from the driver.
poke here for the citi car
 

Doesn't matter who killed it - they are not yet relevant since there is plenty of hydrocarbon for several more decades.

By the time we get remotely close to running out of gas the technology will be there to build some alternative - but doubt it will be pure electric. Hydrogen maybe - but probably something we haven't even dreamed of yet.

Drill here and drill NOW!
 
Davpal, the 40 mile range would suffice for a fair percentage of people. Most people drive to work 5 days a week. Those in rural environments would be SOL, but most commutes where people work in/near town are well under 40 miles. Once you get to work, plug it in there.

Can't make everyone happy.
 
Yes, I saw that it also had the gas engine. I just thought GM could do better than that. That Tesla Motors car can go 200 miles on a charge and goes 0-60 in 4 seconds. That guy built that company for about 55 million dollars. If I were GM I would bring him on board and help with theirs. Electric probably won't work good in the great white north either. Better off with just a gas or diesel if you want heat!
 
tjdub, ya lost me there... How would it be more efficient to charge the battery AND provide power for locomotion? You "lose" energy when converting from one source to another. That power outlet in your house is whole he!! of a lot more efficient than any internal combustion engine that I know of. You can"t spin the generator for free, just cuz the tires are turning. Takes power to turn the genny. That"s like thinking you can use an electric motor to turn the generator and run the generator back in to the motor and get "free" energy.

Makes more sense this way, use a small motor to lump home, rather than have some 150 HP motor sucking gas to power the generator and the wheels. I don"t know why they wouldn"t put regenerative braking in there, unless they couldn"t hit their cost targets with that there. 40 miles would work for many. Not all, but many people.
 
How much do those Teslas cost?

Ya up north would be tough, tractor trailers couldn't use batteries, I don't think, buses, airliners.

Electric seems fine for short in town trips. I still wonder about the safety of batteries in an accident.

Glenn Beck drove GM's hydrogen car around, said it was great. Just had to make sure you got to one of the very few refill stations on time.

B
 
Charging an electric car in the day time defeats the clean energy concept.
More "dirty" coal generating stations would have to be built to carry the electric car's charging on top of normal daily peak power demand.
Then even more generating capacity would sit idle at night. Costing money but making nothing.
The idea is to charge electric vehicles at night with clean cheap off peak power. From existing power plants that don't operate at night.
 
B&D, isn't the WORST power generation station 2-3 times more efficient than a car engine at generating electricity? I think most car engines are at most 25% efficient at turning gasoline into Power, then lose another % turning crankshaft into electricity? If it's only a 10 mile hike to work, you wouldn't need to plug it in until you got home (off peak), but for those that had a 20-35 mile hike, could still drive them and charge them when they get there.

Although, it appears with the Volt, that it doesn't matter how far you have to drive the gas motor will get you there regardless, just that you only get to use the electric power for 40 miles.
 
Some of the better combined cycle gas turbines and coal thermal plants are pushing 50% efficiency.
Problem is there is barely enough installed capacity to carry peak loads Mon-Fri during the daytime and early evening. From approx 6 or7AM to appprox 7or 9 or so PM is peak demand for 12-15 hrs.
To plug in electric cars galore daytime will require every dirty antiquated coal thermal plant to be fired up. Electric cars plugged in at 08:00 and 5,6,7PM when people get home. That isn't making clean air with electric cars.
More high priced peak generating plants will have to be built to carry the electric cars. These $$$ are going to sit idle all weekend and from midnight to morning weekdays.
Net result is your hydro bill is going up per KW/hr.
For electric cars to work the only time to plug them in weekdays is 11:00AM to 4PM during the spring and fall.And not at all during the summer and winter. Any time weekends and from midnight to 6:00AM.
 
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