OT- Vacuum Pumps

T

TimWafer

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Over the last few years I’ve been pumping out fuel oil tanks in people basements and salvaging the oil after they convert to some other type of heat. This past weekend I bought a nearly new 200-gallon pressure tank at an auction for $40. My idea was to hook a vacuum pump of some sort to it and vacuum the oil out of the tanks rather than hauling a pump into the basement every time. Just thought it would be easier and less of a mess and hassle.
I know very little (read that as nothing) about vacuum pumps. Any ideas as to what to look for in a pump or what kind of capacity or size I would need to get? Probably start looking on Ebay but not sure what I would need to look for. Any and all advice welcome!
Thanks
Tim
WWW.TIMWAFER.COM

 

S

sammydwm

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Most vacuum pumps don't like pumping liquids.

 

OP

OP

T

TimWafer

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Well the vacuum pump wouldn’t be pumping liquid. My idea is to hook vacuum to the top of the pressure tank and just run a hose from elsewhere on the pressure tank to the oil tank in the basement. Then just suck the oil directly into the tank and not through any pump.
WWW.TIMWAFER.COM

 

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

All the septic tank pumpers around here that clean out septic tanks use a vacuum pump to pull a vacuum on the tank, and the liquid is pulled into the tank. This seams to work very well. Air is removed from the top of the tank through the vac pump so the liquid never reaches the pump. I think your idea is a good one. You might go to a septic tank pumping company to look at their turcks. You will also need a tank that will withstand the vacuum.Stan

 

D

dlplost

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

about the only real difference is gonna be how it's powered and how many cubic feet per minute (cfm) or cubic inches per minute (cim) it sucks. Calculate volume of tank and divide will tell you how long it's gonna take to suck all the air out of the tank, and remember the oil will take a while to flow up and fill the tank.

I used to do similar with an old jeep I had. I just put a valve on a vacume line on the motor, and used that for suction.

 

N

NawlensGator

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Usually tanks rated for 30 psi or more are good for full vacuum. Will the tank stay topside while you go down with a hose? The septic tank vacuum pump is the way I would go. You could also just buy the whole septic tank truck.

 

OP

OP

T

TimWafer

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Yes the pressure tank will stay on my trailer. The tank is rated I think at 150PSI and looks to be epoxy or fiber glassed lined steel. Quite a heavy tank. I guess my main concern is in getting a pump that will draw enough vacuum to suck the oil up from a basement. Not sure if I should be looking for a minimum vacuum rating? I read about inches of vacuum but not sure what amount I would need.
Tim

 

I

INCase

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

could work. If they'll pull sludge they ought to pull oil. BE CAREFUL about getting a pump that can handle the vapors without causing an explosion! There are probably vacuum pumps for oil/fuel used in the oil industry if you look around.

 

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Another thing to consider, are the fumes comming from the pump. The fumes may be somewhat flammable? Stan

 

R

RodinNS

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

An old Surge Alamo pump is probably about what you want. They're cheap, readily available, and easily repairable/reliable.
I'm not sure what model's ran on 110, but the 55 plus is a 2.5 hp pump that easily runs on 220 if you have a power supply for it. Just watch out that you don't go too big an get a 75 plus... that will want 5 horse, and then you're getting into more complications in running the pump.
There's hardly a farm consignment auction around here that doesn't have a Surge or DeLaval pump somewhere in the mess...

Rod

 

C

cadet trooper

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

You're dealing with a fluid dynamics problem that is hard to overcome on one hand distance of head causes problems with standard pumps and lift causes problems with vacuum pumps. My guess is it will be a trade off to the laws of gravity. The best thing I've seen for something like this is an air pump like a Sandpiper, however the air demand is high and could require a 3/4" air line. The best way to figure vacuum is everything is in the negative and is figured in Hg or inches of Mercury and rarely goes higher than barometric pressure. I'm sure there is a fluid dynamics specialist on here that can chime in I'm certainly not one. Good Luck

 

R

Ryan - WI

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Would a fuel oil tank be able to withstand being pressurized a bit?

Could you use an air compressor to create an Air over oil hydraulic system and then have the air pressure in the fuel oil tank push the fuel up the hose to the trailer.

 

OP

OP

T

TimWafer

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

I tried that as an experiment once outside. It will only take a few pounds before bulging badly. The really bad part is any pinholes or leaks become fountains of oil in their basement. Exactly what I’m trying to avoid. My idea of using a vacuum is any pinhole leaks would suck air in rather than dribble out.

 

Janicholson

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

I think it would be easier and less trouble to use a positive displacement (synthetic rubber vane) style pump to draw the oil out the fill tube. The pump could be self priming, or you could put a foot valve on the end of the hose to keep it in prime.
In my opinion, it will be easier to handle, and just as effective. Electrical fuel handling pumps are easily found in old gasoline filling station pumps. Or commercially available. They routinely lift fuel from underground tanks. JimN

 

W

WantACaseLASomeday

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Real nice web site and terrific projects and photos - thank you for posting the link!

 

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Just because it is a pressure rated tank does not mean it will withstand vacuum. Test very thoroughly first, a catastrophic collapse half full of oil will be messy and costly.

Also a release of oil to sanitary and storm sewers will require several emergency calls.

I would proceed with extreme caution.

A air operated diaphragm pump would be my first choice. Cheap, rugged, self priming and run on compressed air.

 

L

Leland

Well-known Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

I have saw gas powered air compressures hooked up to make a vacaum pump just hook the intake to the tank they pull real nice

 

M

MPK

Member

• Oct 21, 2008

• #1

Years ago there was a septic tank pumper near here that had a homemade unit and all he had was 2 milking machine vacuum pumps that he run side by side off the truck trans and the pumps sucked from the top of the tank. It worked pretty good, didn't take too long to get enough vacuum to start sucking. He just had to watch so he didn't overfill or it would go into the pump but I never saw that happen. He had a glass sight gauge on the end of the tank so he could see how full it was.

 

O

olddog

Well-known Member

• Oct 22, 2008

• #1

Vacuum pumps pump air and are rated in CFM.
ASME rated at atmosphere pressure (14 PSI)
and NZ rated at 15 inches (working)vacuum.
I usta could rebuild Surge Alamo pumps in my sleep. They all used oil to lube the vanes (either metal or fibre) as well as lube the bearings. The oil is recycled in the reclaimer. You may be able to get along with heating oil for lube but consider the consequences of compressing it as a vapor. Also consider a muffler on it in a residential setting.
Your variables are the size of the suction line, height that you are lifting it, (20 ft may be max) and your patience for time to draw it off.
Good news .. we recommended to flush any pump whose oil was contaminated with milk or water; with diesel! There are those around here using milker (vacuum) pumps to draw septic tanks.