Questions for outdoor woodburning people

Looking at getting an outdoor woon burner. I might have a chance at a used Hardy H6. Wondering how much wood you burn in a year, how often you have to stoke the fire, pluses, minuses, all that stuff. I've got 2600 sq ft, but the upstairs has a new LP system, so I am looking at just my main floor. Furnace got flooded in an 8" rain and insurance isn't covering. Anyone have anything to say about the Hardy burners and what a 4 year old one might be worth? Thanks.
Aaron SEIA

neighbors had 4 and after the first year all 4 were replaced with different brands they all said they were to small in the fire box and one leaked after being fixed many times

I know a few people that have them. They burn over 10 cords a year. I wouldn't have one, only for the fact of wood consumption. They do have some pros, mess is outside, no splitting of wood, etc. I have an indoor wood furnace that is tied in series with our furnace. We burn about 6 cords, to heat 2400sq ft home. I would be worried about future leaks on a used unit, especially stainless steel. But on the other hand, if the price is right well its your choice.

Many people use them up here in MN. I am not familiar with the Hardy brand (as there are now many brands). We looked at a couple and were very close to a purchase, however, decided against it. We looked at heating approx 2500 sq feet, and the sales rep said to expect to burn between 10 and 16 cords per season. Seemed much too excessive for us. If you have unlimited wood and lots of room for storage, it may not be as big of an issue. It seems they are quite a bit less efficient than an indoor wood furnace, however, many homes are not set up for that or for the mess.

The other thing to look for (in my opinion) is the firebox construction. Many are made of mild steel as opposed to stainless. We were advised that the mild steel fireboxes rust and leak quickly, but the stainless last longer. Some say that firebrick lining is also important to help with the efficiency.

I found this website interesting with some of the dialouge with these types of stoves...

I hope this helps. Good luck
Outdoor Boilers woodheat orginization

From what I hear, and seen is stainless can produce stress cracks from heating and cooling cycles. I have heard of peope using an anti-corrosive additive for the water on the mild steel, but very costly. I forgot to add, when it gets about 0 or below, my buddy can go through a cord a week of wood. For us, thats about 1 month worth of wood. If you have a well insulated home, use the proper insulation for the lines, and somewhat season your wood before burning. You could use alot less wood than someone feeding it green logs. Burning green wood, you lose about 60+ percent of the heat trying to boil the water off the wood.

I have one and I heat an 1100 square foot two story farmhouse that is about 80 years old. I burn any and all kinds of wood in it, but mostly green aspen. Very seldom do I have dry wood for my own use. I sell that! I use about 7 cords a year in the central part of MN. My parents heat a 28x70 Rambler with a 28x28 attached garage that was built in 2000. They use about 12 cords of mostly green wood a year. If we have 20 cords between us, we know we'll have enough. I wouldn't heat with anything but an outdoor boiler.

Not very efficient and not legal in some areas.
Some townships are not permitting them.The epa is supposed to ban them like they did in california.

I've got a Heatmor and love it. Like stated already mild steel is not the best idea. Stainless (302, 304, 304L, and 305)is better then probably boiler plate. Heatmor uses 409 stainless and must be the best cause they have a lifetime warranty! Others have usually a 10-30 year warranty. Not sure how many cords I burn since I burn and cut all winter and don't really store any at the house. I heat a 2600 sqft house and a 650 sqft garage with no problems all winter. Depends on the wind and temp but ave. 20 degree day I will fill it clear full at night and half full during the following day... either morning or mid-day. Really green wood and really dry wood seem not to last as long as some that is a bit seasoned. How efficient they really are is hard to judge but I can tell you that my dads house is a 100 year old two story farm house that has been re-insulated in most of it and we used to heat with strictly an add-on unit in the basement. Switched to a Heatmor boiler and used it strictly but also heated the milking parlor and if we used but half as much more wood as just the house I'd be surprised. This will be the first year not heating the parlor so we will be able to judge better. Never heard of the Hardy brand. Most units rated to heat 3-5000 sqft are selling for about $6-7000 so if it has no problems judge for yourself.

I have electric heating in my home. But also have a wood burning furnace outside. I use it when the winter months are real cold and want to save on my electric bill.
My furnace will take a 26 " log and I find for all night burning this works the best. For your not running in and out to put more wood in like you do some of them short log burners.
For the last two years we have had an ice storm that takes the electric out with it. So since my furnace has a fan on it. I have an extra conection that cuts the power from house to fan and can operate the fan with my generator for power. ...Plus I have a nice size converter that I can also take my deep cycle battrie and hook the fan wiring to it and run fan motor easy also.
Now as I said. Lot power for 9 days just this last year in winter months. The outside furnace saved our butt. No water froze up in lines and was able to sleep nice and warm in house.
I burn the furnace during real cold winter months. I use about 5 to 6 cords myself.

neighbor has used unit they been using past couple years. The weekend he is always cutting up wood and the place always smell of smoke because of the short stack on the units. Inside the home it has some smoke smell also just because it comes thru the windows from the outside. I would not want one personally I furnish him with alot of lumber for his fire woood (used pallets). Most wives would not put up with the smell of smoke all time around the house I would think good luck

Take whatever people use in woodstoves for places in your area and double it for the boiler. Triple or quadrouple it if you plan on burning greener wood.

The things smoke pretty bad if you run them in warm weather or if you burn garbage wood or green wood. The low chimney makes you eat smoke too.

There are a handful of them around with fire brick inside and some blower controls etc that do a bit better but you'd be better off to get a gasifier like a Garn.

I looked into them,but went with geothermal last winter.I heated my 1800 sq ft house for 450 for the entire winter.

I have a Jutol wood stove inside my house with no fan. It radiates heat very well throughout my 1800 sq. ft. house. On a outside wood burner you lose all that raiant heat. Just my 2 cents...

You must have very mild winters and/or cheap electricity. Here in central New York, I've checked out many new, well insulated homes with geo-thermal. Average cost to heat mid-winter is about half of what the same house would cost with oil heat ( at current fuel and elec. prices). And, that's not including the investment in the installation and equipment.
Average well insulated 2000 square foot home here uses 1000 gallons of oil for a winter with a cost between $3000 - $4000. Most geo-thermal homes are doing it for $1500 - $2000 if they are very well insulated.

Here - with geothermal - it takes 1 KWh of electricity to make 12,000 BTUs of heat. All the installations I've looked at have either 4 ton or 5 ton pumps. All also have to have some sort of aux. heat besides the geothermal - especially when temps get down to 10 or 20 below.

Electricity here - when you factor in all the added charges and taxes comes to 18.5 cents per KWh. Right now, heating oil costs $3.50 per gallon. That comes out as:

Geothermal value - $1 buys 64,850 BTUs of heat with an extra heat source needed in very cold areas. This is with an advertised electric cost of 12.5 cents per KWh that actually costs 18.5 cents.

Oil heat - $1 buys 29,700 BTUs of heat at 80% efficiency and a $3.50 per gallon price.

Propane heat - $1 buys 27,000 BTUs of heat at $3.20 per gallon and 95% efficiency.

Firewood heat - $1 buys 88,000 BTUs of heat with 70% efficiency and a cost of $200 per full cord of hardwood.

I have an "outside furnace" installed inside and it works very well for me. You have to figure in all the extras, regardless how you heat. Even if you own your own hardwood forest, the wood is never "free." I have enough standing hardwoods to last me 10 lifetimes. But, I have to pay taxes on the property, cut the wood, get it home, split some, stack it once outside, and stack again later inside. It's a lot of work and chainsaws and fuel and other equipment costs money.

At present fuel and electric prices in my area - here are a few figures.

Geothermal value - $1 buys 64,850 BTUs of heat with an extra heat source needed in very cold areas. This is with an advertised electric cost of 12.5 cents per KWh that actually costs 18.5 cents.

Oil heat - $1 buys 29,700 BTUs of heat at 80% efficiency and a $3.50 per gallon price.

Propane heat - $1 buys 27,000 BTUs of heat at $3.20 per gallon and 95% efficiency.

Firewood heat - $1 buys 88,000 BTUs of heat with 70% efficiency and a cost of $200 per full cord of hardwood.

Upstate NY. I can only speak for myself here. Many communities, villages and cities around here are in the process of making these outdoor units illegal.
Because a lot of people insist on burning green wood they have become terrible polluters as well as highly inefficient. When burning green wood approximately 60 % of the total energy potential of wood is used up just drying the wood enough to burn. What pours out the low stacks is pretty rancid stuff.
We have an indoor Yukon forced hot air, wood/oil combination, but only use the wood. With dry seasoned wood we use about 5 full cords (15 face cords) a year to heat about 1800 sq ft. Average indoor temp stays around 78 degrees

He must have aweful leaky windows!

I'm planning on getting a Central Boiler brand furnace this winter. They have a model that is EPA approved. I plan on locating mine approx. 100' from the house, and down wind so I should not have any issues with smoke. I suspect some people have their furnace too close to the house and too short of a chimmney. there are no houses within a 1/2 mile down wind so I shouldn't affect anyone else except for a couple of days when the wind doesn't blow from the prevailing wind.

I know this is a little different, but I have a pellet stove. I used to have a mobile home that was about as tight as a screen house. The first year I contracted 1000 gal propane and used it all by the end of January. 200 more lasted through the end of the season. Thermostat stayed on 65. I bought the pellet stove and contracted 800 gal propane. I burned 3 full skids of pellets at $130 per skid. Propane was $1.29/gal. I used almost 600 gallons over 12 months. There were quite a few days that the temp in the house was nearly 90 untill I figured out how to adjust the stove so it would stay lit and not roast me out. If I figured it correctly I easily saved 1/3 on heat cost. When I figured out the stove the temp inside was about 78 so I figure actual savings was nearly 50% over propane alone.
Once a month I had to clean out the ashes and flue. Small price to pay for being toasty warm at an affordable price. Stoves like mine last I knew were about $1000 at Menards. Mine was a close out and I got it for $600. One drawback was the blower motors bearings wore out and got noisy after 3 seasons of 24/7. I got replacements but they didn't last on the exhaust blower. The exhaust blower assy was $130 but was a better design.

JD, two questions, wouldnt you still pay taxes for your property regardless of wood use,and how much does your $200 a full cord come to per 16" wide facecord? Just trying to get a handle on your equations. bill m.

In regard to the taxes on property - in my case, the answer is "yes" and "no." Hardwoods that are already on the farm that I own and live on don't really create an extra tax burden. In fact, I get an ag/forestry tax exemption for some of them. But, woodlots I buy primarily for a wood source, do indeed add extra taxes.

One example. Last year I got a chance buy (from an estate) 30 acres of mature hard maples, ash, and red oak. I bought it for $18,000 and it's less then a mile from my farm. So, I'm out the $18,000 cash that would have been getting interest somewhere at 4%. And, I'm paying around $700 a year in taxes on that 30 acre lot. My plan is to selectively cut it, and at the same time develop part of it into a building lot for a home or camp. Then, someday sell it - hopefully for a lot more than I bought it for. But, you never know.

I'm in cental New York. I also have a small farm in Northern Michigan and I'm thinking about moving there. I've got 40 acres of woods - but it's all cedar, poplar, and red pine - all pretty-much useless for firewood. I've been looking for a reasonbly priced woodlot for firewood in that area - but as of yet have not found one worth buying that will be cost-effective. Hardwood lots in northern Michigan are more scarce and more pricey.

Heating and trying to plan ahead with any fuel is a toss-up unless you own your own source (gas well, oil well, wood lot etc.). If you have to depend on getting it from somebody else - you are subject to the ever changing market, and supply-and-demand. In my area, many people changed over to wood pellet stoves a few years back and are now sorry. Wood pellets are back ordered and prices are way up. Right now, one dollar of wood pellets (if you can find any) buys you 49,000 BTUs of heat. Same dollar spent on firewood buys 117,00 BTUs of heat.

In regard to your face cord question. A true cord is 4' by 4' by 8'. A face cord is 4' by 8' by whatever the cut length is. A face cord of 16" wood is about 1/3 of a full cord. Face cords in my area were $25 a few years ago, and are now up to $65-$75. That is for hard woods only - beech, ash, hard and soft maple, red and white oak, birch, etc. Soft woods can usually be for free. Local saw mills have piles of softwood slabs that are free for the taking.

Antoher factor is what kind of wood you are buying. All wood has the same BTU energy per pound - 7800 BTUs. But, not all types of wood weigh the same - and some soft woods have resins that create chimney fire-hazzards.

Son has hardy in Lake City, Mich. Loves it, but first year.