Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Heard about a proposed program to buy old polluting cars for $3,500/ea., to help the auto industry and people with old cars. Anyone else hear of this bill?
- Thread starter Anonymous-0
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charles lendman
Member
We'd send you a check right away BUT you'r NOT in New Orleans or Houston sooo...Too bad!!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
California had something like that a few years back. Price was about $700.00 for cars that were earlier than sometime in 70s and were otherwise exempt from pollution control laws so couldn't get junker off the road by failing them at inspection they weren't required to pass. Some later cars that failed inspection given option of sale to state agent and void pollution ticket and other related to smoking tickets. RN
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Shoot, if that is the case, I am going to go out tonite and purchase as many junkers as I can !!!
Dave from MN
Well-known Member
I have a 84 cheyenne 4x4 that burns more oil than gas. I"ll gladly take $3500 for it as long as I do not have to spend $35,000 to replace it. You wait, some day the an economic stimulus package will be that the govt will require any vehicle made prior to 1985 to be classified as a collector, only to be driven on weekends and holidays. This would force many, many people, all of whom are just perfectly happy not having to have a new vehicle every few years, to go out and buy a newer vehicle so they will be able to comute mon-fri. Just think of all the demand it would create for the good ol American auto industry, er, uh, well, just think how many more cars the foreign automakers will be able to sell here, which will boost, umm, gee, foreign nations economy. I sure hope no one in congress reads this thread or that"ll be the 1st bill that goes through when they get back in session.
Haywood
Well-known Member
I think California had some sort of vehicle buyout for the old Ford Falcon Vintage cars???
I decided to keep my old trucks.
96 F150 EC 4x4. 52,000 miles.
91 F250 4x4 LD with 300 EFI...116,000 miles.
I will not replace these trucks at todays prices.
Now there are way to many good used ones to pick from
to consider new.
I decided to keep my old trucks.
96 F150 EC 4x4. 52,000 miles.
91 F250 4x4 LD with 300 EFI...116,000 miles.
I will not replace these trucks at todays prices.
Now there are way to many good used ones to pick from
to consider new.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
in 2000 I sold a 1985 Nissan Pickup with a purned valve to a program being ran by the Bay Area Air Quality Mgmt Dist. My then employeer. Cars had to be 1982 and newer, failed the smog test, registered in the Dist for the last 2 years, Have seats, steering wheel, doors, no major body damage and start and drive around by itself. I had problems keeping the thing running during the smog test, something it easily failed. I towed the truck to the contract station in Fairfield. Wired up two batteries and had my friend load a rag up with either and throw it in the air cleaner when he saw the refere and me approaching. I prayed as the ref got in and started it and drove around. I got $1000 for a truck that wasn't worth anything. There was a similar program that paid $500 for any pre 1973 car, with similar restrictions. With Californias budjet problems, those programs are now just a pleasant memory of the past.
I thought they closed that loop hole a few years ago. Coperations buy them then trade them for polution credits towards there factory emissions that won't meet EPA standards.
That's correct, the company's keep on poluting the air/water from the mfg'ing process as it's cheaper to buy junk cars then fix there problem. The EPA lets them get away with this.
Only in America folks!
T_Bone
That's correct, the company's keep on poluting the air/water from the mfg'ing process as it's cheaper to buy junk cars then fix there problem. The EPA lets them get away with this.
Only in America folks!
T_Bone
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Those pollution credits get discounted. For example for every 1000 pounds you bank you only can only sell 800( or whatever the formula is where you live, it was negociated, no beurocrat made it up). Everybody wins with credits. It is a market oriented approach to emission control not the command and control regulations that everyone hates so much. Anyway, none of the car buy back programs had anything to do with emission banking. It would be far to expensive.
What government? State or federal? Sounds like nonsense to me. Here in New York, we get incentives to keep our old rigs. Pre-1995 annual MV inspection is half-price.
My son was stationed in Japan for a few years while in the military. He told me that over there, they tax your vehicle, and the tax goes up for every year it gets older until you are basically forced - to either by a new car - or walk. That has nothing to do with pollution though, it's to force people to buy new and keep the economy going.
My son was stationed in Japan for a few years while in the military. He told me that over there, they tax your vehicle, and the tax goes up for every year it gets older until you are basically forced - to either by a new car - or walk. That has nothing to do with pollution though, it's to force people to buy new and keep the economy going.
Hi Scott,
That sounds just like what was said the last time this same train rolled in. First the news about junk cars being bought for extreme prices then about a year latter the EPA trying to explain why the polluting companys working the system while saving millions of dollars and still pollulating the enviroment.
I'll wait till the other shoe drops before I change my mind.
T_Bone
That sounds just like what was said the last time this same train rolled in. First the news about junk cars being bought for extreme prices then about a year latter the EPA trying to explain why the polluting companys working the system while saving millions of dollars and still pollulating the enviroment.
I'll wait till the other shoe drops before I change my mind.
T_Bone
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
T Bone my friend, don't we all work "the system", Don't we all pollute ? It has been proven the emission banking systems reduce pollution. Don't we buy stuff from polluting factories (ie: oil refinery or power plant). Any better ideas ? How tight can we make the valve flange and connector rules ? Low NOx burners are great but what about NH3 slip at the thermal NOx control ? Why not let the coker, cat cracker or whatever live out its design life in 10 or so years and mean while we replace a bunch of dirty uncontrolled diesel engines that operate irrigation systems, or whatever you drag in. When the cokers life is over it will be replaced with something super clean and efficient. And all those dirty irrigation pumps will be replaced with electric motors. What is wrong with saving millions ( or billions) of dollars if there is a less expensive and better way to get to where you want to be?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Also to note, around here Title 5 permits are "Living Documents". And we are abought as tough as it gets.
Buckeye Oliver collector
Well-known Member
No we get enough of that going on with tractors going to scrapyards. Who knows where the metal ends up. Likely China and possibly Iran. I'm not for keeping absolute junk but most of them can have alot of parts sold off before even considering scrapping.
Walt Davies
Well-known Member
Hi Scott,
I don't have a problem with a correct designed working program as like you say pollution is pollution if were comparring apples with apples. Taking "X" amount of pollutants out of the enviroment is a fare trade, however I remember the problem was the factories pollution was far greater than the pollution removed that the cars made "had" they been running.
On the last program I remember junk cars being turned in that had not ran for many years thus was causing very little pollution as they sat. To me and a few other thousand people, that was not what the program intent was too be.
On the surface the link that Walt just posted appears to be a sound program provided there's no loop holes in that program for the same thing too happen again.
Time will tell.
T_Bone
I don't have a problem with a correct designed working program as like you say pollution is pollution if were comparring apples with apples. Taking "X" amount of pollutants out of the enviroment is a fare trade, however I remember the problem was the factories pollution was far greater than the pollution removed that the cars made "had" they been running.
On the last program I remember junk cars being turned in that had not ran for many years thus was causing very little pollution as they sat. To me and a few other thousand people, that was not what the program intent was too be.
On the surface the link that Walt just posted appears to be a sound program provided there's no loop holes in that program for the same thing too happen again.
Time will tell.
T_Bone
From what I read, 80% of all automobile polution comes from 20% of the automobiles, so it sounds like Japan rewards its people for not poluting, unlike here in the US, where the taxes are on the new vehicle.
I dont think the US government is able to do anything well, with the exception of spending tax money (which by the way 80% goes to administration costs, and the 20% is spread to the masses), but why should a person be punished and made to smog check their new car, that probably passed emissions comming out of the factory.
It is a proven fact that if you keep punishing people for doing good deeds, then people will stop doing good deeds. How many of us over 40 types have seen an extreme deterioration in the good neighbor policy over the last couple decades
I dont think the US government is able to do anything well, with the exception of spending tax money (which by the way 80% goes to administration costs, and the 20% is spread to the masses), but why should a person be punished and made to smog check their new car, that probably passed emissions comming out of the factory.
It is a proven fact that if you keep punishing people for doing good deeds, then people will stop doing good deeds. How many of us over 40 types have seen an extreme deterioration in the good neighbor policy over the last couple decades
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
T Bone, before I switched to the Fire/Hazmat/Paramedic thing I do now I spent nearly 20 years in the envrionmental field as a owners representative, consultant, remediation contractor and a regulator. Other than NESHAP, the National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Polluants which I have been involved with from Guam and the Christmass Islands to Maine, almost all of my work was in California. Without knowing what program you are talking about I can not comment. However, if you are living near some polluting company that has odors, fallout or is outherwise making a nusiance of itself I can tell you all the levers to pull and all the buttons to push to change that.
Hi Scott,
Na, it was just what I was remembering from one of the early 80's(?) simular programs. It's just been too many moons ago to remember the details. As you can see, I don't even know if I got the right era...LOL I think It was during the time I was getting certified for Indoor Air Quality.
Sounds like you've been around the horn in your profession.
T_Bone
Na, it was just what I was remembering from one of the early 80's(?) simular programs. It's just been too many moons ago to remember the details. As you can see, I don't even know if I got the right era...LOL I think It was during the time I was getting certified for Indoor Air Quality.
Sounds like you've been around the horn in your profession.
T_Bone
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
yep, I have been around. It got old !
You may have read it, but I don't believe it.
Who is measuring pollution, and at what extent?
Frivolous air travel and factory smokestacks are the biggest polluters.
Have you seen the specs. on how much fossil fuel is burnt up running factories to retool new cars and trucks every year, recycle steel from old ones, etc.? That figure is very high - and that sort of pollution coming out of factory smokestack counts for a lot.
One case in point is this nonsense with hybrids being "green." Most hydrid cars - pollute more than gas cars when the fuel used in their design, production, and end-of-life recyling are figured in. Same goes with solar-electric panels, but to a lesser extent.
I'm on 100% solar, and for me - it basically pays for itself with some added security. But, that is only because the cost was 50% subsudized by the government - i.e. partially paid for by taxpayers.
In reference to Japan, the main reason for the tax is to boost the economy, not to prevent, or limit pollution.
A few quick Japanese facts.
Average cost of a new small car - $9,600 US dollars - i.e. 1,000,000 Yen.
Cost of mandatory Japanese saftey inspection - every two years -known as "shaken." $100 to $500 US dollars, depending on age of vehicle. Old vehicles cost more to inspect.
As far as the US government not being good at anything - seems we haven't done bad with protecting ourselves via the military. We did basically win two world wars - remember? In fact, the federal government also won the Civil War.
Who is measuring pollution, and at what extent?
Frivolous air travel and factory smokestacks are the biggest polluters.
Have you seen the specs. on how much fossil fuel is burnt up running factories to retool new cars and trucks every year, recycle steel from old ones, etc.? That figure is very high - and that sort of pollution coming out of factory smokestack counts for a lot.
One case in point is this nonsense with hybrids being "green." Most hydrid cars - pollute more than gas cars when the fuel used in their design, production, and end-of-life recyling are figured in. Same goes with solar-electric panels, but to a lesser extent.
I'm on 100% solar, and for me - it basically pays for itself with some added security. But, that is only because the cost was 50% subsudized by the government - i.e. partially paid for by taxpayers.
In reference to Japan, the main reason for the tax is to boost the economy, not to prevent, or limit pollution.
A few quick Japanese facts.
Average cost of a new small car - $9,600 US dollars - i.e. 1,000,000 Yen.
Cost of mandatory Japanese saftey inspection - every two years -known as "shaken." $100 to $500 US dollars, depending on age of vehicle. Old vehicles cost more to inspect.
As far as the US government not being good at anything - seems we haven't done bad with protecting ourselves via the military. We did basically win two world wars - remember? In fact, the federal government also won the Civil War.
greenbeanman in Kansas
Well-known Member
With the vehicle passing inspections or emissions tests how can they call them polluting?
"The vehicle must have been registered in an area county for at least 12 months before the voucher application, and it must have passed an inspection or emissions test within the last 15 months."
"The vehicle must have been registered in an area county for at least 12 months before the voucher application, and it must have passed an inspection or emissions test within the last 15 months."
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The way I understand it:
Vehicles are emissions-tested to see if they comply with the emission regs that were in place when the vehicle was manufactured. So, even though my '68 Chevy pickup "passes emissions," it's still quite a polluter, since about the only "emissions requirements" in 1968 were that the thing ran and wasn't blowing black smoke.
So I think the goal of these programs is to get the older vehicles off the road, since while they're legal, they still pollute.
Vehicles are emissions-tested to see if they comply with the emission regs that were in place when the vehicle was manufactured. So, even though my '68 Chevy pickup "passes emissions," it's still quite a polluter, since about the only "emissions requirements" in 1968 were that the thing ran and wasn't blowing black smoke.
So I think the goal of these programs is to get the older vehicles off the road, since while they're legal, they still pollute.
Glen D Anderson
Member
VERY good question, something very few think about let alone ask...................
We just took on how many billions or trillions of dollars of debt from Freddy and Fannie (where's the investigation of the Congress critters who let this scheme go belly up?) and someone thinks it's a good idea to spend MORE money we don't have? I like clean air too, but MORE SPENDING isn't the answer!!!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
When I first clicked that link I got a message about "Antivirus 2009"
That's a very pernecious trojan going around, and one way it's spread is by ads on legitimate sites (they hack -- physically or socially -- the ad server that provides them).
If you see that, on Windows go CTRL-ALT-DELETE and choose "Task Manager" then select the Internet Explorer applications and "End Task" them. If you click on ANYTHING in the message box that mentions Antivirus 2009, it installs -- OK, CANCEL, the "X" in the corner...they're all programmed to infect your computer.
Since the Dallas News is a legitimate sight, after I killed IE the first time I went back in and it was safe that time.
That's a very pernecious trojan going around, and one way it's spread is by ads on legitimate sites (they hack -- physically or socially -- the ad server that provides them).
If you see that, on Windows go CTRL-ALT-DELETE and choose "Task Manager" then select the Internet Explorer applications and "End Task" them. If you click on ANYTHING in the message box that mentions Antivirus 2009, it installs -- OK, CANCEL, the "X" in the corner...they're all programmed to infect your computer.
Since the Dallas News is a legitimate sight, after I killed IE the first time I went back in and it was safe that time.
Everybody is allowed to beleive what they like, but the EPA says 80% of automobile CO polution comes from 20% of autos, I think the EPA is a federal department.
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline5.html
I totally agree with you about the "no free energy" statement, and I think solar cells are a terrible waste of mined mineral resources, with very poor ROI.Our government also supported people like the Shaw of Iran, Sadam Hussain, Stalin, and many many nefarious individuals who were often times the cause of many wars. The civil war was a follow on from the revolutionary war, and was an attempt to keep the south from sending goods to Europe to be processed cheaper than what they could be processed in this country. Sounds to me like the same thing is happening now, just the less expensive producer is in asia. Intresting thing about the asians, and their culture being thousands of years older than our country, if you ask them who won the Civil war, they will reply "it is too early to tell" kind of prophetic it seems.
These are just my observations, and are not ment to be inflamatory, and have no value to anyone, including myself. I am like everyone else, trying to make a living, whith what knowledge I have. I have two newer imports because they dont spend time in the shop, and I dont think any worse of anyone who has other types of vehicles. But it is silly for me to smog my car every year. I always pretend to be very releived that they passed, and pass by being so far under the limit, that it is almost not measurable. I think it helps the people at the government garage feel like they are contributing to society.
Good luck
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline5.html
I totally agree with you about the "no free energy" statement, and I think solar cells are a terrible waste of mined mineral resources, with very poor ROI.Our government also supported people like the Shaw of Iran, Sadam Hussain, Stalin, and many many nefarious individuals who were often times the cause of many wars. The civil war was a follow on from the revolutionary war, and was an attempt to keep the south from sending goods to Europe to be processed cheaper than what they could be processed in this country. Sounds to me like the same thing is happening now, just the less expensive producer is in asia. Intresting thing about the asians, and their culture being thousands of years older than our country, if you ask them who won the Civil war, they will reply "it is too early to tell" kind of prophetic it seems.
These are just my observations, and are not ment to be inflamatory, and have no value to anyone, including myself. I am like everyone else, trying to make a living, whith what knowledge I have. I have two newer imports because they dont spend time in the shop, and I dont think any worse of anyone who has other types of vehicles. But it is silly for me to smog my car every year. I always pretend to be very releived that they passed, and pass by being so far under the limit, that it is almost not measurable. I think it helps the people at the government garage feel like they are contributing to society.
Good luck
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