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O/T didn't mean to open up a can of worms

O

old

Well-known Member
Location
Camdenton Missouri
On my sons hair color thing. Just to fill in a blank or 2. Hes 18 and this is his last year of school. This time next year he will be in the navy active hes inactive right now. This was just his way of having one last fling because next year he will have the strict rules of navy life and he know he will have to fall in line there.
 
Hey Old; Kid sounds ok. I dont agree with all the funky colored hair, but its their choice. School is a place for teachers to teach, students to learn. I for one would find (and did) mini skirts and d*&% near topless girls more distracting than a boys hair color. Ask the board what the real reason for the complaint is. Probably control/power freaks at work. Bob
 
Well Old if the Teachers would get their heads out of the sand, they would relize it would be just like a house across the road from me. I came home from some where one time, we live 1/2 way down a hill, when I came over the hill I am sure I gasped. Worker were painting the house across the road from me the color was between a bright pink and a dull orange. It really did stand out after about two weeks I didn"t notice anymore. Your sons hair would have been the same way.
 
Well, you brought out a great bunch of information anyway. I thought this whole hair thing was settled 30 years ago. I guess, like Indians & underwear, these things creep up on ya when you turn your back for awhile.
 
I follow the Bible ( using the 80/20/2 Rule )
Prov. 22: 6 (( Train up a Child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it )) ...
 
Very true. One other thing theres an add on TV for the furniture factory outlet or some thing like that and the woman in it has the same color hair his was before they made him change it back. Funny how teachers seem to go on a power trip the first of each year and seem to find any thing they can to keep a kid out of school instead of what they should do and make it a place the kids want to go to. And they complain about the drop out rate, seems there the problem with the drop out rate not the kid.
 
Guess you have no clue of my back ground. A year ago may we put my dad in the ground at the age of 84. He was a pastor and had been from the time he got out of college till he retied and even then he would fill in when a pastor went on vacation. So what does hair color have to do with what you posted. Hair color does not make a kid bad or good and my son is a good kid. He also goes to church almost every Sunday. So again how is it that hair color makes him good or bad???
 
LOL funny you should say Indians, hes 1/2 Indian. Hes my step son and his father was full Indian I have raised him since he was 4 years old when his dad died
 
To me "one last fling" just doesn't cut it. What is the real reason for changing the hair color?

To gather attention? Out of boredom? To make themselves cute? To make a statement, what statement? To be like other students? To challenge authority? OR ??

Certainly kids with weird hair color can be good kids and can have good grades. I just question why they feel the need to--perhaps rebel in some way?
 
Hi Old --- on the Pastor note -- I have known many Pastors who got Fired for not being a Good (Accountable) Pastor ---
On the Hair Color --- Looking Presentable and Respectable is the FIRST STEP to Acting and Living that way --- PROV. 22: 6
 
I remember when a lot of schools wouldn't let you wear Levi's mine did because we were a farming community. Then the girls all started wearing very short dresses and they complained about that so they went to pants and they complained about that. Now its another thing and next year it will something else. I gave up on kids a long, long time ago as ninety percent will go on to be very good citizens and the 10 percent, well we have places for them also.
Walt
 
Hair color or length has nothing to do with character.Serial killer Ted Bundy dressed like a successful businessman complete with short brown hair and he fooled many many people.Gotta look a little deeper than the color skin or hair when judging a persons character
 
Guess you need to look in the book and understand the meaning of judge not less ye be judged. And again whats that have to do with hair color its just hair and if you can't see past a person wanting to be him or her self then your blind to what the person really is or who he or she is and you are then judging them by looks not what is on the inside. You point to the book but you also don't seem to live by it because of how you try to use it. You have to read it all and use all of it not just oe or 2 things when you make a statement. So agin it goes back to the judge thing
 
Yep goes back to the old saying. Kids will be kids, they only live one year at any age so as long as there not causing trouble why not let them learn by doing instead of learning it in other ways that may have stick. No matter how long we live kid will always figure out ways to be different but we as adult do that just we don't do it in way that people notice as much. World sure would be boring is we all wore the same things and drove the same cars etc. etc.
 
Old,
My thought is for you to step out of this. An action has a consequence, he took action for whatever reason, the results are his problem. You know the rules and choose to break them; you pay the penalty. Why is it never the rule breakers fault "just one last fling"????
 
You ask a legitimate question. I didn't and don't see what some people had a prob;em with it. When I was in high school girls were not aloud to wear pants, boys in jeans were OK as we were a farming community. We had senoir dress down day each year. My senior year one of my(boy) classmates wore a dress. Principal did not have a sense of humor with this. But then he rarely did have one.
 
Here's your case, 1972 Massie v. Harris from the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals (Federal). The following is an excert from the ACLU's position on the matter and a more recent case upholding a students rights:

The issue of student suspensions over hair color is not new to the ACLU. Three years ago the ACLU of Virginia represented Surry County High School student Kent McNew after he was suspended for coloring his hair blue. That case went to court in Richmond, where a federal district judge ordered the school to reinstate McNew and to pay the ACLU's lawyers $25,000 in legal fees.

The district court's decision in McNew's case was based on a 1972 Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, Massie v. Henry, holding that students have a "right to wear their hair as they wish as an aspect of the right to be secure in one's person guaranteed by the due process clause." In 1999, the ACLU also represented a Chesterfield County Middle School student who was ordered to leave school because her hair was colored pink. That case never made it to court, as the school immediately reinstated the student once the ACLU intervened.
 
Ah but what rule. The way its listed in the school hand book it does not say any thing about hair color it just says any thing that would cause a discipline problem. So in fact there is no real rule dealing with hair color its just set up to be what ever the person in charge thinks, Which to me give the school officials to much power
 
Old, I think you are taking this too much on yourself. He is 18, let him make his own way, right or wrong. Only way a kid learns. Try not to get too upset if he gets scratched a bit. To the others, legal or not has nothing to do with it. What is disruptive in one school might go unnoticed in an other. Rules vary. Either obey them, or don't obey them and take the penalty, or change them. The world has all ways been that way. Those that disagree make lawers rich.
 
Camdenton, Missouri? You need to contact Attorney General, Jay Nixon. He is running for governor and he can help your Son. I taught school for 12 years and it seems that school officials are so easily distracted from their objective. I taught during the 1960's and 70's when there was much unrest. I recall when a new student moved into the comminity from California and was wearing bell bottom trousers. He was asked to wear more conventional dress and a year later the teachers were wearing bell bottoms.
 
Ya now days teachers do not seem to keep up with the new trends. If they would just let a kid by on most the problem as they call it would just go away on its own but nope they have to punish a kid by not letting them go to school. To me thats giving them just what they want. Never have figured out how kicking them out for a few days was punnishment
 
I can see it now.........."Seaman Old, why is your hair 'brite' red and why don't you have a buzz cut"? "Well, Chief, my dad said that according to the Supreme Court, I get to pick and choose which rules I'll obey and I choose not to obey your silly rules". :>)
 
So I guess if my 18 year old kid got a swastika & white power tattooed on his forehead that would not be disruptive but just freedom of speech ?
 
If he doesn't learn to go by the rules, he will have a bad time in the Navy. What are you and he going to do when there is something you all don't like about the Navy? Go cry on a congressman shoulder?
 
OLD --- seems you need to Study the Word -- and understand the Difference between Judge -- and Making Judgments --- See 1 Cor. 6: 2 to 4
 
> To me "one last fling" just doesn't cut it.
> What is the real reason for changing the
> hair color?

I'll offer 10-to-1 that there is a girl involved.
 
I'm not going to argue about this with you for more then one reason one is that religion is one thing that we are not suppose to talk about on this forum#2 you can believe what ever you want. I know what I know and you know and understand the way you want I'll not quote the book
 
Sorry but I know what its like in the navy did 6 years and I'm a D.A.V. If you don't understand D.A.V. then you better ask a vet what it stands for
 
Didn't say that but what I am saying is a lot of school are to the point they do have to much power thats why the ACLU fights them all the time and they win 99% of the time because of that fact. No my son isn't perfect but who is and we all rebel in some way or the other all the time. If we didn't no one would ever complain about any thing. Complaining about something is a form of rebellion you know
 
Yes but a lot of schools are going to far on a lot of stuff. If that wasn't true there would never be rulings in court about things that go on in school either that or the ACLU is in the wrong.
 
Old, I have held back on commenting because I have read many of your posts and respect both your knowledge and your beliefs - many of which match my own. The real question here is not so much what student "rights" are, but more on what is the purpose of spending all of the money and time sending kids to school.

They are there to learn so that they can contribute to society and earn their own way. Dress codes and grooming codes are implemented to help establish a non-disruptive atomosphere in which to teach. Granted that some rules are childish in their own right, but some of our laws are somewhat the same. There are many in our society that believe those of us who have enough fuel to store back until we need it should share with those who don"t - so they just help themselves at night. When we complain about these so-called "thefts", they just shrug it off as rulemakers trying to make their life tough.

We often wonder why teachers really don"t give a damm anymore. It may be that part of that attitude is enhanced when parents make a big fuss over something as insignificant as rules on hair or rules on dress. I have seen the same problems in my community - the only involvement that the majority of the parents contribute is to support the football team and loudly complain over areas that are not nearly as important as the education process - or lack therof.

There are battles that need to be fought in order to preserve both our educational system and our country - the hair color issue is not one of them.
 
Looks to me like you Don't want to Follow what is Written --- and that's your choice ---
By the way --- It takes Two to argue --- I'm just sending you advise --
just like most Parents on this Forum who are on the Respectful Side ........
 
Joe, since you live in MN I'll guess your one of those old German hard heads that live up that way. Reason I say that is because you sort of sound like my dad or should I say you sound like he did when he was alive. He was born and raised in MN and I still have family up there. Oh one other thing I'm also a German for the most part
 
Oh believe me I understand that, but theres also a point that some things in schools are going way to far. Ya I did not agree with his hair but its his so I let it go. My big thing was others did not get kicked out and had pink hair etc. But that has now changed or at least it looks like it. Of course theres other thing I do not agree on as far as the schools but who doesn't. Girls with low cut shirts on or sting strap tops but boy can not wear a muscle shirt. And of course there the mini skirts which should not be in schools
 
You may need to talk to a few teachers and see the types of problems they have. I am in favor of school uniforms and uniform discipline. Be interesting to hear about the Navy career, you don't believe his recruiter hasn't already noted that their is a little rebellion in the kid, especially if he is on delayed enlistment. Subversive rebellion is more effective, gather all his friends and all dye their hair the same day, the school won't send all home because they are paid on attendance.
 
I guess I gotta admit you have pretty much identified the problem - our society is so diverse that it is truly impossible to get everyone to agree on a definitive set of rules. I am certainly in agreement on the mini-skirts as far as being disruptive. There are a lot of mommas, however, who would call you and me too old-fashioned. They believe that their little girl is just so cute in her little mini-skirt and it would be terrible to not allow her to wear them. I guess we will all just end up agreeing to disagree, but it has been a very interesting discussion!
 
Joe,

What Paul is talking about there is lawsuits among fellow believers.... Read all of Matthew Chapter 7. We ALL need to be wary of the fruits of our labour and make sure all of our interactions with others are Christ-like, especially when we invoke God's word. Have a great evening.

-Peabo
 
The delay is because hes still in high school. Hes in fact in the navy right now just inactive reserves. He can not go active till he graduates from high school. The navy will not take people that do not have at least a high school education and hes in 12th grade this year or senior which ever you want to call it. I do understand schools my dad had a K-graduate standing as far as teaching or in other words he could teach kindergarten up to master degree. And he did teach off and on when he was not being a pastor. Shoot I could have gone to college for free if I had so wanted to but that was not for me I joined the Navy instead
 
Thats sort of reminds me of a story my dad told one time. He was at the time teaching college. One girl came into class in a ultra short mini skirt. He ended up telling her to leave his class. Why because none of the guy heard a word he was saying because they had the noses all pointing at that girl and how little was covered up. But just think if we did not rebel at times where we might be today, Specking the kings English instead of of American English
 
Rich,
You just didn't open that can of worms you ripped the lid right off that puppy.LOL
Vito
 
I love & respect all of you guys gals but you have been TOOK! The young man wanted attention and he has it. Read Kyhayman's reply, he has been there and done that, as have I.
 
I find it funny that you don't want to talk about religion on this thread. ypu started a thread knowing full well that it would open a can of worms and that it all comes down to what you beleive is right and wrong (religion). I don't have a problem with someone dying their hair if it's a normal colour but when someone dies their hair blue or red or any such colour then I lose almost all respect for that person.I also think that teachers do care but they simply can't do anything about the lazy kids that don't feel like working. Suspension gives the kid what he wants and most kids don't care when a principal talks to them because they know they (the authority) can't do anything but suspend them. It also makes me sick when a parent sues the school board because the school told a kid not to come to school with blue hair or 15 body piercings.A kid also doesn't do something for "one last fling" . He has more reason than just that. If he dyed his hair blond than whatever, nobody would even know. It's the red and blue that bothers me.
 
Paul was not using Lawsuits as a Specific example -- it was a General example --- notice the statment (( How much more THINGS PERTAIN TO THIS LIFE ))
I know what Matt. 7 says --- especially 7: 14
 
Cheap shot for a low life like your self. I do not live on welfare never have I'm a D.A.V. I earned what I have not like some people that are cowards like your self
 
Hair color like speech if a first admenment right so you either let one have it or you take it away from all. This country was founded on freedom and you sound like you do not enjoy the freedom so many of us vet have help to keep for you. Yes I'm a D.A.V. and as per the forums rules religion is a no no
 
LOL sort of tells me how close minded people are now days. This country was founded on freedom of well almost every thing so why not hair. Those people that judge others because they have pink hair or any other thing that they feel they want shows how close minded they are. I my self would never get a tattoo but I also do not tell another person they should not have one its there body and they have to live with what ever they think they want to do
 
What I'm surprised about is that no one has mentioned that there is a chance now that your son has been suspended, that he may be kicked out of the military. Seen it done before so you might want to do some checking before you go into the school and raise heck. You might be best to just lay low otherwise your son will be SOL'd. There is a big difference between being free to do something and having it be right. The military (as desperate as they are) are not fans of folks who do not conform and this whole mess is a good demonstration of such. Just because the papers are signed isn't a guaranty he will get in.
 
Well I'm not going to say yes but thats up to him but I think he would end up in trouble if he did that. I'll not judge a person because of his race color or creed and creed is open to a lot of things
 
His recruiter knows all about what is going on and hes on my sons side as far as hair color. I have talked to him and yes he says it would no fly in the navy but in school whats the big deal let him have one last year
 
The ACLU wins most of their cases because they sue small districts that can't afford the legal fees. They don't sue large districts that have lawyers on staff because those districts will fight and appeal, whereas small districts surrender because winning a lawsuit in federal court can cost more than a districts entire budget.
 
Parents like this is why I would not teach if you paid me 100,000 per year. There is little teacher/principal control left because of parents always taking the kids side of things. They are just picking on my little Johnny, and we all know little Johnny should not be forced to accept any personal responsibility for his actions. The kid acts up and the parent takes all the grief, kid learns that others will answer for his mistakes and refusals to conform. Are you going to say the Navy is picking on him when he applies the lessons learned by your always taking his side, even when he is dead wrong? One thing for sure, the military wont listen to any of your crying. When I messed up in school, I got my arse burned by the teacher or principal, they called my family and I got it again at home. Didnt take me long to learn, break the rules and pay the price - - - twice. Tom
 
Children, adolescents, and young adults who would dye their hair red are obviously looking for attention. I see this thread as an indictment of Rich's parenting skills more than anything else. Make the community pay attention to his kid so he doesn't have to make the time.
Oh, And to those comparing it to a girl who bleaches her brown hair blond is not a good analogy. It is a known fact that women spend and inordinate amount of time fussing with their hair. Solomon even commented on it.
"And a woman's pride is in her hair."
But will you further emasculate your son (beyond what the schools are already doing to him) and allow him to develop this feminine behavoir?
I should hope that a stripling son is raised differently than a willowy girl.
PS
Girls with red or blue hair are likewise a poor reflection on their parents.
 
Children, adolescents, and young adults who would dye their hair red are obviously looking for attention. I see this thread as an indictment of Rich's parenting skills more than anything else. Make the community pay attention to his kid so he doesn't have to make the time.
Oh, And to those comparing it to a girl who bleaches her brown hair blond is not a good analogy. It is a known fact that women spend and inordinate amount of time fussing with their hair. Solomon even commented on it.
"And a woman's pride is in her hair."
But will you further emasculate your son (beyond what the schools are already doing to him) and allow him to develop this feminine behavoir?
I should hope that a stripling son is raised differently than a willowy girl.
PS
Girls with red or blue hair are likewise a poor reflection on their parents.
 
Children, adolescents, and young adults who would dye their hair red are obviously looking for attention. I see this thread as an indictment of Rich's parenting skills more than anything else. Make the community pay attention to his kid so he doesn't have to make the time.
Oh, And to those comparing it to a girl who bleaches her brown hair blond is not a good analogy. It is a known fact that women spend and inordinate amount of time fussing with their hair. Solomon even commented on it.
"And a woman's pride is in her hair."
But will you further emasculate your son (beyond what the schools are already doing to him) and allow him to develop this feminine behavoir?
I should hope that a stripling son is raised differently than a willowy girl.
PS
Girls with red or blue hair are likewise a poor reflection on their parents.
 
Maybe you need to look back in time. At one time rock and roll was not allowed to be play in schools, Girls wore dress not pants, motorcycles where not allowed to be rode to school etc etc etc etc etc. Each year kid come up with new ways to stand out. It happened when we where young and it happened now and it did when your mom and dad went to school. Its just the norm of life. You need to think back to when you where young I bet you rebelded some how if not then you where not the norm
 
Guess you only read the parts you want to. I'm a D.A.V btdt for my country and did so with pride. Each class has and alway will have it way of acting out. You did it when young and ya you payed in some way and it will happen as it had for ever. My parent did it in some way so did yours. Every one unless not normal did rebel in some way as they grew up its just part of life and testing the water
 
More power to him. The "in crowd" didn't like me in school so I learned to deal with it. I've found that lots of folks that think "outside the box" are really fine folks if you will approach them with an open mind. I've been different all my life. It used to bother me, now I enjoy it. Ya, I drove a loud muscle car when I got out of high school. I also wore yellow and black flowered shorts to get attention. I joined the Air Force and was always on night shift because of my anti-lifer attitude. In Viet Nam, I made
E-5 in 2 yrs and 10 months in service. That was practically unheard of. After the AF I did construction work and finally ended up a diesel mechanic. I didn't go to college so I am still not "normal." No office work for me. I guess one of the most unnormal the that I do that city folks and Hollywood types would refer to is collect antigue tractors and go to tractor shows.
 
If he is 18 years old and only beginning his senior year, it appears that somewhere there was a "do over". Unless there was some medical consideration preventing him from attending school, he was given the taxpayer provided obligatory chance to finish his education (12 grades in 12 years). Consequently I would consider this opportunity to attend another year as a "gift". If he wants "freedom" then quit school and go for a GED. This would allow him considerably more freedom, and not be a distraction to the "silent" majority whom are attending high school for educational reasons rather than to experience a last "fling". Perhaps after the Navy stint, he will more appreciate possible educational opportunities and be able to fully utilize any forthcoming GI benefits.
 
Years ago that was true but now days its not that way BTDT But I'm also an X navy man and my son is in the navy inactive. Even the school cops do not understand what the schools problem is with my son. All of the school cops respect my son as he does them and they help him out when ever they can and have even given him boot and chaps for his motorcycle which he rides to school
 
Well I was 18 as a senior because of my birth day. Him on the other hand me and my wife do not believe in the no child left behind thing that is in schools now day and we held him back one year because we did not feel he should go to the next grade. Now days the no child left behind is a very bad and stupid thing they have in schools and they pass a kid even if he or she should not pass
 
You sort of sound like me as a kid. I never fit in. My dad being a preacher caused me a lot of problem because I had to be that perfect kid and you know there is no such thing. I worked for my money since I was 12 year old and payed income tax and S.S when I was 14 years old which is unheard of then and now. I drove to odd ball cars and rode motorcycles since I was 14 and even had my license when I was 14. I still sort of stick out. I drive the older ugly cars and trucks but hey I know they will hold up if some one hits me in a wreck. I have never been one to lead but I also have never been one that follows
 
You think BTDT is off the mark? Oh man, you and your son are in for a ride then. Recruiters haven't changed one bit. In fact, it's gotten worse since they are so short of men. They are still commissioned based on how many signatures they get. I wish you luck, but I'd hate to be in your shoes with this mess.
 
It's far better than a kid going into a school with a gun and shooting a bunch of people because he was bullied and harrassed. By some of the comments about what started off as an innocent post, you'd think that Old put a gun in his kids hands and then dropped him off at the school. His son colored his hair red. He didn't hurt anyone, he didn't threaten anyone, he didn't bully anyone and he went to school. He did something different. It's not the big deal a lot of people are making it out as. He's not going to turn into a serial killer. I guess the Simpsons should have been banned years ago because Marge has blue hair that is not "Normal"! Lighten up. Dave
 
Well I know for a fact is nothing like it was when I was in the navy. more more slap up side the face if you do not jump fast enough to suit them and no more foot on your back if you don't do a push up the way they want you to. Don't know what or who you are but I know military life is a cake walk compared to what it wa when I was in and when I was in it was a cake walk to what it was when my uncle was in WW2
 
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