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OT: Tree Clearing Advice Needed

K

Kent in KC

Member
I have a couple acres of woods along my house I'm trying to thin so the good trees can grow out better. I'm clearing mostly young locust, elm and ash 2"-6" in diameter. I'm using a small Poulan gas chainsaw.

Question 1: Does it make more sense to try to cut the stumps off at ground level (so my mower doesn't hit them) or a couple feet off the ground, then pull the stumps? I would use a JD 2020 to pull but I've never pulled stumps before so I need the short course on how you do that. (I know not to pull from the rear, pull from the front). How big a stump would you think I should be able to pull without too much trouble?

Question 2: How often should you need to sharpen a chain? (I know, when it gets dull) but how much would you expect to cut before it gets dull?

Thanks, fellers.
 
If you are just going to be growing trees on the site and not developing it for anything else, I'd just cut the stumps at ground level. Some of them might grow back, tho. Not sure of elm locust or ash that way, but I know that tag alders and hardhack and the like ("junk trees") can grow back new shoots. I'm not sure how well a Deere 2020 sized tractor would handle removing the larger stumps. Not sure if they have deep taproots or not. You can make it easier by digging around them, or if you have a buddy with a small 'dozer or hoe that would be the best route.
 
Stumps are hard to pull. I would dig down a bit around them and cut them off just below ground level and paint them with roundup so no sprouts.

On sharpening the chain, it depends on how much you hit the ground and such. I can cut up a hafl dozen or so 10" trees into firewood with one sharpening on my little Poulan if I am careful and don't cut into the ground.

When it stops cutting good sharpen it.

And be safe.
 
Re: the chain, I'm not sure. Hard to say just how long you can go. Depedns on the oiling, the kind of wood, how it has been sharpened, etc. Depends on how much dirt you get into with the saw. I usually can get a few cords of hardwood from mine. On little stuff like yours, you could go a while. But touch the ground just once and you have lost a lot of life fromt he chain.
 
If you want to try and pull the stumps out, leave them higher. 4 feet would give you better leverage for pulling but make sure to pull from the draw bar. you don't want the tractor going over backwards. Try a couple and see if they pull out. You can always cut them lower if they won't pull out. Get a chain file for your saw. Run it on the chain a couple of times a day. Only a couple of strokes and it will keep the chain sharp longer. Cutting in dirt will dull it really fast. It's a good idea to have a couple of chains. If one gets too dull, you can put another sharp one on. Dave
 
On pulling stumps, try cutting some of the trees at a 5 foot height- then chain up high, and give it a pull. Its amazing how the added leverage will help. Cut the rest of the "stump" after pulling out (or cut on down to the ground on the ones that don't budge). An easier way might be to cut at conventional height, then when done, rent a small excavator- you'll be able to dig them out in short order, and have a little fun in the process.
 
Cut the trees at ground level; save the wear and tear on your tractor from pulling stumps.

Chains are a lot cheaper than tractor repair and parts.

Dig out around the base of the tree with a grubbing hoe to clean an area for your chain saw.

Do your best to keep the chain out of the dirt.

Cover the stump with dirt after your done.

I know that the elm will sprout from the stump: not sure about the ash and locust.

Use Remedy on the stump and it will die.

Keep the chain as clean as you can and oil it before every use. Refill the chain oil each time you refill the gas.

If you sharpen your own chain, do it before every use.

A chain that is not sharpened correctly will "pull" to the left.

Elm is a "hard" wood and will shorten the life of your chain.

I do not sharpen my chain, but keep it "snug" on the bar.

When it no longer cuts I replace it with a new chain.

Be careful with your chain saw! My only farm injuries were caused by a chain saw.

Hope this helps.
 
I've been pulling trees here is VA. I do it in the spring and late fall after rains have had a chance to soften the ground. The I have been using a LS180 New Holland skid steer. Raise the bucket a bit (head high) and push on the tree, if it goes over at least a little bit put a chain around the base and and lift it out. Some times I have had to move forward or back to help it come loose. I don't let the back wheels come off the ground much--couple inches if possible. If they come off more then that it will scare you when the tree lets go. I have been able to pull up to 6 inch thick trees bigger then that get a bigger piece of equipment.
 
You wont be pulling any sizeable stumps with that size tractor. Dont even bother trying. You will just tear your equipment up. If you really want to get the stumps out get a dozer in. I would just cut them off at ground level. Then bushhog and spray the area. If it good wood you might be able to get people to help you in return for them getting the wood for firewood.
 
You buy a new chain rather than sharpen? That's a lot of chains laying around, seein's how I probably get 30-50 sharpenings on a chain before its worn out. Kind of reminds me of the old joke about the Texas oil man who bought a new car whenever the ashtray got full. . .
 
Well, I guess I'm gonna disagree with most of the other guys...............you might pull the black locust; they set on top of the ground; the ash and elm; forget it. As far as cutting them off close enough to mow over; if you're removing a few trees, go for it; if you talking about the better part of 2 acres, I wouldn't; you'll spend more time sharpening a chain than cutting. You should be able to cut for a couple of hours between sharpenings....if you're sawing wood instead of soil. This opinion is worth just a little less than you paid for it............
 
Darn, throw the chains away when dull ???

I would spend several hundred $ on chains each year.
 
If you keep a file with you and touch up the chain every time you fill up with gas and oil the chain will last a long time. Dont ever let the chain hit the ground, all bets are off.
 
I am guilty of getting in the ground too much, but I do like to cut stuff off at ground level. Must be something to do with seeing how mad my dad got after one of our landlords cut a bunch of sprouts off around the edge of the field. Cut them off about 6" high. My dad was really not wanting to buy a new 18.4 - 34 at that time, but we had to.

I keep a squeeze bottle of Tordon on the ATV to put on the stumps. After a few years they rot.


Gene
 
I save my old worn out chains for the grubbing work.

Also if you dig down around them and then wash the dirt off it helps a lot. Or dig down and let the rain clean the dirt off the stump.
 
been doing exactly that on a 5 year plan, now the 10 year plan

as you cut, watch for sparks, with that short bar you have very few cutters and those sparks are small stones or sand rounding off the cutting edge, $29 harbor freight chain grinder awful chintzy but works good enuf for me

you will be pleased with the difference if you try a better grade of saw (echo,stilh,husky), BEWARE - buying new saws kinda becomes an illness

consumer chains (green link) are very dis-appointing, Bailey's sells real chain and bars and maybe you can try a rim sprocket, cutting 90% of the time on the side causes sloppy chain to slip off a lot

if you can leave enuf room, you can bush hog in there to keep suckers down, becomes kinda like a park

brush pile is good hiding place for the bunnies, 6 inch chipper with power feed is lot handier

do not keep cutting after you get tired - do not keep cutting after you get tired - do not keep cutting after you get tired
 
As you have read below every one has a differ'nt slant of things, here's mine.

Pulling stumps sucks. Hard on equipment, chains, and leaves a hole you gotta do some thing with.

Never used a Poulan saw, so I ain't gonna knock your saw. A chain should last better part of a day if you start with it good and sharp. If it was me, I'd cut the stumps off as close as you can with out get'n in the dirt and go on. Some people claim you can drill holes in the stump and fill'm with urea and they will rot out fast. I have been told that they also rot away real fast if you paint'm with a mixture of used motor oil and crossbow.

Don't drive over the stumps till they rot out some and get soft. 6" stump, 3" high cut flat should not cause too much trouble and you should be able to mow over pretty easy.

For your chain, as others said get a file and touch up any rough spots every time you fill up. I have never been good at sharping one, but I can do a little touch up work. There is a guy at the hardware store here that will sharp'n one for $3 and it is as good as new. I have 2 GOOD chains for both saws. I have to get all 4 chains sharp'ned 2 to 4 times a year.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Dave
 
Pulling stumps is a *itch......Just cut the stump off flush with the ground (dont get the chain in the dirt or it will dull fast) then fill the stump over with dirt. Works for me.
How fast will a chain dull...Depends on the trees being cut, if it is dead dry wood then chain will dull faster. If the chain is ran and hits dirt it will dull super fast.
 
On a [hopefully helpful ]sidenote that stump eater stuff you drill into the stump and add kerosene then light[a week later] did not work for me at all.Chain will last long on wet wood without hitting the dirt.In my Husky book sharpening is listed as daily maintenance.
 
I have had to cut a lot of trees down here. I don't try to pull stumps. Too much work. I just cut them off as low as i can go. As far as chainsaws, whatever works. I have had 2 Stihls, but I don't want to be a saw snob!! As to chains, I usually figure a couple hours on a chain. Or whenever the saw starts really lugging. I might change chains 2 or 3 times in a day. A sharp chain is a lot easier on the saw. And safer. The local guy here charges $3 to sharpen a chain, I can usually get 4 or 5 turns out of it. Chains are like any other cutting tool, they are a consumable. I just bought a pair of chaps, always wear a hard hat and steel toe boots, and ear plugs. I generally drop the tree, lop off branches for awhile, then drag the brush off, changing what i am doing every 20 minutes or so, so i use different muscles - and take breaks. Don't get in a hurry and be safe. A saw has absolutely no consciense. Local guy here fell outta a tree with a saw a couple years ago. Lost his arm. Spook has cut a lot more stuff than that guy, and still has all his parts!! BE LIKE SPOOK!!
 
I have been doing tree work for many years. Most injuries are caused by using dull tools. I would recommend you learn how to sharpen the saw and save a lot grief.
 
try tossing a cable HIGH up into the tree before you cut it- even big oaks will come out of the ground on a damp day when you apply 40 feet of leverage. Then, cut 'em when they are on the ground.
 
well i was in your exact same position 3 years ago. had to thin trees down close to the house, cut 35 trees down, average 8".

i used a 18" poulan and its still running great. the 2 factory chains that came with it were decent, last through about 20 trees. i just got a pack of 2 oregon chains and they were nice and sharp and only used 1 chain for last 15 trees, buts its dull now.

i cut mine off a foot above ground, but found a local guy really cheap to grind stumps, $15 a stump.

i agree, never would pull a stump with tractor. 2 trees, i didnt have ground, i just took an old chain and cut the stump below ground level, use old chain so when u wreck it no biggie.
 
Keep the wood as clean as possible and you will be able to saw a lot of wood. I always took along my floor jack to lift the big logs and then
put limbs under the logs. Locust will take a long time to rot. You can rent those stump grinders. You can tow them with a pickup and they just used one next to me that's self-propelled. Hal
 
If you have a loader, place it high against the tree and simply push it over. Then bring the bucket down and dig into the roots lifting and pushing smultaneously. You should be able to take the whole root system out that way. If the ground is dry you can shake a lot of the dirt off with the bucket and you"ll have less need for fill in the hole you have left. I"ve taken down many ash, elm, pine and hemock this way; up to about 10" in dia. with my WD Alls and trip bucket. I don"t recommend this for trees with
dead branches as that"s why they call them "widowmakers". The ash trees have a bad habit of starting up from the stump If you cut them off at ground level.
 
Supergrumpy summed it up for me - do not keep cutting after you get tired - do not keep cutting after you get tired - do not keep cutting after you get tired.
 
They originally start out as 14" and "stretch" to 15".

Tried removing a link and resharpening, but the syncrhonization of the chain and sprocket get out of time and then you wear out the sprocket.

Maybe if I buy a John Deere chain saw the chains will last longer.
 
The only chain that I have not replaced is the chain on my granddaddy's David Bradley.

I looks like a bycicle chain with teeth.

Does David Bradley still make chain saws.
 
Never had much luck sharpening chains.

Took them to be sharpened and paid anywhere from $5-$7 dollars.

Did not get much "good" use from them.

Even took them to different shops with no difference in performance.

With all factors considered in my personal situation, in the long run for me it is easier to replace the chain.
 
At the time it was a hard decision to make.

As I mentioned above, in my set of circumstances it is easier to replace the chain.
 
I'll throw out another option: pay someone with a cat to push over all the trees you want culled and push them in a pile for burning the following year. With fuel it's probably something like $150/hour these days, but keep in mind, what takes him 1 hour would probably take you 40 with the chainsaw.
 
I would cut trees off as high as possible and still safe. This way you have a couple chunks of fire wood left to be cut later if that is what you decide to do by cutting it off at ground level. After clearing area of lims, brush and fire wood I might use chemical killer on stump or get some one with bigger equipment to push stumps over and out. In other words keep your options open by not cutting off at ground level when you make your first cut. I have found good saw chain cheap at farmers markets and also at forestry type expos. Baileys also has good loops very reasonably priced. I bought about 20 chains at penn states timber 2007 last year. Very well worth attending especially if it is your first time.
 
Kent in KC,
Lots of good advice here. Only couple of things I would add:

I agree that stumps are tough! I use my Ford 755 backhoe to dig them out and if I grab a 6" stump without loosening around the edges, it will pick the front end off the ground and it weights 18000 lbs! So, yeah, stumps can be hard on equipment. Whatever you do, work slow and methodical. Digging around the stump with your bucket to break the roots that branch out underground will help immensely on the bigger ones. If you're doing a lot of them, you'll have a field that looks like its been shelled, i.e. full of craters. Remember that each one will leave a decent size hole that will have to be filled. I use fill that I saved from cutting in a driveway to fill in the holes, then back blade with the loader bucket to level it out. If I just had a loader bucket to do it with, I'd probably use the techniques suggested by others: leave as high as possible and push the stump/tree over and cut the upper part off on the ground.

Been using a Poulan Pro with an 16" bar. It's ok, but I'm going to get a Stihl MS361 real soon, as I'm doing way more cutting that the Poulan was designed for. I sharpen by hand every time I fill the tank. Just a couple of strokes will keep the chain sharp. BUT, make sure you have a good sharp hand file. Try sharpening with an old dull file, then take a new one out of the box and you can sure tell the difference. Haven't tried the motorized DIY sharpeners. Might ask for one for Christmas.

Digging out stumps gives an appreciation for Mother Nature when you see whole trees knocked over in storms, tornadoes, hurricanes.
 
Well, I"m keeping ash and elm as well as black and white oak and sycamore as well as a few wild cherry trees. The ash and elm I"m clearing are surplus, crowding out the others. In other words, I"m trying to do a little forestry management to have somewhat fewer but healthier, trees.

I"m also leaving some "dog hair" thickets, dead trees and rotting logs for wildlife habitats. We have a wonderful array of birds, deer, fox, turkey and rabbits. They are pretty well balanced, no one is really taking over and I don"t want to upset the natural ecology. Just hoping to clean up some around the high value trees.
 
Thanks, guys. I appreciate all the advice.

I think I will skip the stump pulling and do the dig-around-cut-at-ground-level method and just keep a sharp, oilled chain on. I have four chains so I can rotate and resharpen them for quick change.

I am also bush hogging the smaller (2.5" or less) stuff and gradually getting some areas down to where I can mow them with my riding mower. It sure looks a lot prettier now.

Thanks again.
 
With the stabilizers up it wouldn't be too hard to lift the front of the backhoe. Lots of weight on the back and a lot of leverage. With them down, I can't see the front end lifting. The hydraulics wouldn't have that much power. Dave
 
(quoted from post at 12:54:12 08/21/08) With the stabilizers up it wouldn't be too hard to lift the front of the backhoe. Lots of weight on the back and a lot of leverage. With them down, I can't see the front end lifting. The hydraulics wouldn't have that much power. Dave
Click to expand...

Don't know what to tell you, Dave, except that the Ford 755 TLB backhoe hydraulics (and I suspect any construction BH) WILL lift the machine right off the ground or drag the machine in the dirt WITH the stabilizers down. Trying to use the backhoe to dig without the stabilizers is crazy. It will bounce the machine around as the weight shifts with boom movement. The only time I use the b/h w/o them down is if I'm using it like a mobile crane and moving stuff around, but then at a very slow pace.

In fact, the manual states the recommend method of repositioning is to push the BH backhoe bucket down into the ground to lift the machine, then swing it to pivot the machine to where you want it. Done it many times. (exceptionally useful when you bury it in the mud, LOL) When I bought it I didn't realize the difference between a true construction backhoe and a tractor mounted one. Now, my machine is pretty old and tired, pins not real tight, so I tend to be careful with how much I push it, but I can imagine that brand-new it was quite the machine. I've heard stories of Kubota backhoes bending cylinder rods. I can't imagine bending one of the 2" rods on the 755.

It was one of those lucky purchases where I wasn't smart enough to know that I was making a sound decision. :D
 
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