O/T Grazing lease cancelling

I leased 115 acres to a guy for his cattle at $14 per acre. He put a full third more cattle on it than I wanted. I am new to all this so I never questioned anything and trusted that he wouldn't let anything bad happen like overgrazing. He said he would take care of the fence. I have 160 acres total and the cows are running on the part he didn't rent because the fence is broken because the cows are going in and out of it. He hasn't come to fix it and even got me feeling like I should do it.

The total cattle that should be on here according to other people that are renting is 20 head and he has 44 now. He took a couple off already when they went through a fence.

I want to cancel the agreement. It was a handshake deal, no written contract. He paid me $800 in advance. They have been on for about 2 1/2 months. The grass is running short.

I definitely am getting the short end of the stick.
Can I just tell him to get his cattle off because of a lack of adherring to the agreement we made?

In SD a oral handshake lease has to be cancelled with a written cancellation by Sept.1 or it continues until the next year.

If you told him how many cows you wanted then I believe you have a right to tell him to leave. But if you just rented him the land and you only WANTED a certain amount and didn't tell him, I think he is doing nothing "wrong" enough to break the lease on the amount of cattle he has there. Now the fence thing is a different story. If both parties agreed to who fixes the fence, then the "fixing party" should get busy or get kicked out. Around here, most of the pasture is rented out on a per head/per month basis. That way you can say I only want 22 head for 5 months. Whenever anyone rents around here on an "acre" method, the pasture usually gets abused really, really bad, like you are seeing. So if you told the renter you only wanted a certain amount of cattle then you can probably kick him out.

115 ac. with 20 head, 5 3/4 ac. per head? must be poor pasture too start with.

The Animal Unit per acre for my area is 6 acres per head for non cow/calf pairs. I did tell him a wanted no more than 35 because I can rotationally graze them. He seems to forget everything we had talked about unless I remind him.

Sure won't have these mistakes next year. The going rate around here now is $20 - $25 and the renter pays for everything... fences, thistles, water, etc... AND they are willing to sign a lease. This guy convinced me we could do it on a handshake. Screw that....

Your learning.

Never rent by the acre, only by the head per day/month. They will do it to you every time.

Never rent to him again.

When you tell him to get off, have your great big BIL with you.

Did the handshake specify how long he could keep the cattle there? There's a good chance he'll claim it was for a year unless otherwise stated, so be prepared to refund most of the $800 and write if off as a lesson learned.

I can see his point if you rented the land per acre he pretty much can do what he wants with it. However the fence is another thing make him live up to the agreement on that by giving him two days to take care of it or move them out or charge him for the extra acreage that he is using that will wake him up real fast.
Walt

PS people will push you just as far as you let them.

115 ac. with 20 head, 5 3/4 ac. per head? must be poor pasture too start with.

Click to expand...

Stocking rates vary greatly across the country. From an acre or less per head to many many acres per head. Just depends on where you live.

That's unless it is less than 40 acres. Most people don't know that one, but it is in the SD Codified Laws.

There are a lot of fellows in drier western Kansas that would be thrilled with that high of a stocking rate.

We generally figure 8 acres per cow/calf pair.

They are 1st calf heifers. So they aren't pairs.. He had 2 bulls on for about a month and a half to finish them out.
The damaged fence and overpopulation is the part getting me. No two ways about it that if he has grazed off about 6 months grass in 3 months...
So basically I am just disgusted and want them out. He has/is making a ton in how much grass they are eating and the end result. Tired of being the new idiot/take him for what you can and run guy....

I'd think that if HE was to fix the fence as part of the agreement, then HE fixes the fence NOW, or go to blazes, with his cows. There's no reason you should have the rest of your land tromped on because he won't fix the fence.
As far as the stocking rate goes, I don't think I'd get too excited about that. We typically have about 1 cow to the acre and at times we've had that down to 1/2 an acre per cow in a good year on annual ryegrass.
We've also had poor pasture, over run with crap, weeds and bushes. A gang of heifers INTENSIVELY grazed for one year was the best thing we ever did for that land. The pressure cleaned it up quite nicely... It's actually started producing a decent crop every year again now. So.. I wouldn't get too worried about the stocking rate. It's him that's going to lose on that deal if there isn't enough feed there to keep them gaining.
Also, if you're not happy with the deal, don't invite him back next year...

Rod

Think man Think. Dont you have gates from the other pasures to the highway? Cant you accidently leave the gate open to the road? Make it rough on him. Tell him to fix the fence within 72 hours or get all cattle off the land. Give him written notice by regtistered mail of termination at the end of current lease period. Next time do a written lease that is very specific as to number of head, fixing of fences, cancellation clause, etc. You have shown this man that you are a pushover. Get some spunk and take up for your own interests. Tom

Yeah... never had to deal with civilians, much less small town america.. So I have been bending over backwards trying to fit in or whatever. Figuring that people are basically honest. That a handshake matters, but it seems it is all about the buck. Never had to deal with this... add to that that I have no experience or background in ranching and I really screwed myself.

Steaks anyone?

I am having a hard time feeling to sympathetic to your situation. The only point you have is that he should be completely responsible for any fence repairs as it is his cattle that caused it. As for the stocking rate, unless you specified an exact number in the beginning, mind your own business, he rented the land and is managing it how he feels is best in the situation. He is not going to ruin the land or even the forage stand by running the numbers you are talking, so what is your point, you like seeing a pasture that has a 3 foot of grass in it all the time. Even if he was running 40 full grown milk cows on 115 acres, if fertilized and rotated correctly, he would not be over stocking. So what if his cattle ate 6 months of grass in 3 months, which really doesn't make sense anyways. Grass has the most nutritional value when it is young, not when it is 5 months old, tall and fibrous. So if he has put that many head on the land to use the forage while it has the most nutritional value, he is being a sound manager. He is using the grass that is there and will have to supplement the pasture when the growing spurt of the forage is past. I graze dairy heifers and have done the same thing for the past 5 years. You stock the acres to use the grass when it is at its best, not stock it low so you have something for them to eat all season, because if you did this, they end up having mature stemmy crap to eat by the middle of the season.
I would get on the guys case about the ill care of the fence, he should be on it pronto. But I can't fault him about what he is paying per acre, regardless of what the going rate is in your area. You agreed to the original amount, so you have nothing to complain about. If you don't like it, deal with it till next year when a new contract can be set. As far as stocking rate, he rented the land for grazing and is managing it as he thinks is best. He is not hurting your land in the slightest, he is using the land to get the most best feed for his cattle. I do not see that you have much to complain about as far as stocking rate. You have every right to lease the land to someone else next year but suspect that you will have a problem with who ever is there because you will second guess how they are managing feeding their cattle.

You also seem to forget that the more cattle he is running on it, the more fertilizer he is naturally applying, so if you decide not to have him back next year, and crop it or rent to someone else, you have gained by the manure his cows are applying. I am just having a hard time seeing how you are getting taken advantage of. Get the guy to fix the fence and then go find something else you can worry about.

Ok... lets clear this up.. I am not on here whining and wanting someone to pamper my a$$. I am looking for constructive opinions and ideas as to how to approach and deal with this. My kneejerk reaction is to tell him to take him and his cattle and get the hell off.

1. I don't have an issue with the price per acre. I DO have an issue with the management of the pastures as he has only come out twice to look at the cows. So as far as trusting him, I have doubts. The real doubts come from the other peolple renting out their pastures who have lived and farmed/ranched out here all their lives. The opinions I am hearing from people that know him are "He should know better than that" and "he is really overcrowding the pastures". This from the guy 5 minutes up the road.

2. Cattle population in YOUR area is going to be different from MY area.

I want to be diplomatic but not get screwed OR be unfair. THAT is what I am talking about. Not sympathy. This land was SERIOUSLY overgrazed in the past 6 or 7 years (bare ground from what I have been told). I will NOT allow that.

An overstocked pasture will destroy even a good fence. I wouldn't police the stocking rate so much as the starvation rate. Overgrazing can be good for a pasture (depending on what is growing there). You just have to keep the animals from declaring mutiny on your fences. I would tell him to remove some animals or to start feeding them hay.

Pasture renters have a very bad reputation around here. They come in from out of the area and outbid all the local guys. They promise the world, but just abuse your property. In the end, they don't even pay what they owe. If don't want to get screwed, rent to a local guy with a good reputation.

If he offered you a deal where he would pay you when he sells the cattle, keep in mind that the day he removes his animals may be the last time you ever see him.

The reputation is good.... that is part of my problem with telling him to bugger off. I am trying to learn. I want to learn. I don't have the experience to start spouting orders around here in regards to the cattle. THATS why I am asking for advice and opinions here. At the same time I don't want to harm an already fragile land. There are lots of weeds and the cattle don't eat them. The don't knock them down/walk over them much either so I am not sure how overgrazing is helping.

I have decided to pursue the fence issue but ask about why so many head before I decide to kick him out. I have been reining in my temper over the last couple days....

$14 per acre.........for how long? Sounds like he paid for 6 months? Was the agreement for 6 months or for a year? I've been on both sides........lessee and lessor; I pretty much agree with everything Blinwmi had to say.......

"You have every right to lease the land to someone else next year but suspect that you will have a problem with who ever is there because you will second guess how they are managing feeding their cattle."
That was constructive. Guess you know me as a person, huh?


I wouldn't be second guessing anything if the other folks renting their pastures out weren't second guessing what is happening here. I ask to learn... When the answers bring up questions about why so many head, then I have issues. I am going to bring all this up tomorrow. The fence issue is going to cause a pissy response from him, I think, as that is what I got last week when I mentioned it to him. The stocking rate I am going to see what he has to say.

Out here you dont have to watch for a group of people, just people in general. Was helping divorced neighbor guy pack up his stuff and move out, and his wife who owns the place still owes me for ferdilizing her sweet corn AND her dad still owes me for stacking wagons IN 2007!! I tracked him down and sent him letters and left messages.

He offered to help me pay myself in hay since she wasnt home, but i declined and just told him to tell her good luck finding someone with all the equiptment i have next year. Writing it all off as a cheap education.

I think that i would tell him to get his cows by this date or you'll do it for him. Im pretty good friends with sevral people who would probabally help me if i were in your shoes, and one of them has a nice big trailer.

If you put "pasture rental agreement" into Google, you may hit on something beneficial. Also a search through the University of Nebraska Ag. site could help you.

I am mostly mad at myself because I KNEW about the lease agreements... read them... was told to make sure I do it in writing.. just, I guess, thought a handshake was good. The easy, neighborly way... Talking to my neighbor north of me, even relatives take advantage of that.

I am mostly mad at myself because I KNEW about the lease agreements... I read them... was told to make sure I do it in writing.. just, I guess, thought a handshake was good. The easy, neighborly way... Talking to my neighbor north of me, even relatives take advantage of that.

I am mostly mad at myself because I KNEW about the lease agreements... I read them... was told to make sure I do it in writing.. just, I guess, thought a handshake was good. The easy, neighborly way... Talking to my neighbor north of me, even relatives take advantage of that.

If you tell him to get his stock off, don't do it like Rodney Heemstra did here in central Ia. (thumbnail sketch, Heemstra bought land another guy was renting with cattle on it. Other guy was made out to be an a**hole by many accounts. Refused to remove cows. Several confrontations Heemstra shot and killed other guy and ended up in prison.)
Just give written notice by registered mail that he has 30 days to get his stock off your land and if they're still there after 30 days, it will be assumed that he has abandoned them and you will dispose of them as you see fit. Have the Sheriff there if you have to remove them.

I would lease my pasture for 10 cents per cow per day as cows were being moved in and out. I also took care of fences and water.

steveormary

Man, I would love to lease pasture from you. I could raise 40 heifers for 120 a month. I am currently renting 10 acres for 100 a month, and am running a dozen heifers on it. The lack of rain here in Michigan is not kind to the grass, been supplementing with hay lately.

Just some observations from down south.We have several cattlemen in my neck of the woods who lease grazing land.I see tracts similar in size to yours that support more cattle than he is running on yours.But they have good stands of quality grass and are fertilized yearly and limed when needed.Any weeds that grow are cut off before they go to seed.And most of the land owners have good fences that are well maintained.The cross fences are also kept in good shape as a lot of the pastures are also hayed during the year.The cattle are rotated back and forth as the grass is depleted in one area.I understand your complaints but,It sounds like you may not be quite ready for the business arrangement that you have enterd into with your renter just yet.And the renter may have also jumped a little too quick also.First of all you are charging a fair amount of rent for your property.The renter agreed to your price so there should be no problems there.But you in your discription of your property say you have little grass available for grazing and that a lot of weeds are there that the cattle will not eat.And your fences seem to be in need of some repair.I'm sure that the renter if he is an experienced cattleman also was and is aware of this.It is probably in both yours and his interest to cancel this agreement.However you may need to to honor you handshake agreement before ending the arrangement.It would not be good as a landlord for word to get out that you are not a man of you word.All the good you ever do might not help your reputation much but,one bad move can ruin your standing forever in your community.Now you say that you are knew to this game so here is my take on what you should try to do if you want to lease your property in the future.First of all you need to improve your property to charge rent for its use.In other words make it attractive to tenants.Start by taking soil samples to find out what nutrients the land needs to grow grass.Next get rid of the weeds,then do any maintenance such are filling and levelings any washouts ect.When you get this done repair or install new dependable fences and gates on the property.Then apply the fertilizer and the forage seed of your choice.Allow plenty of time for the pasture to establish and start growing before allowing cattle to start grazing again.Get your cross fences and water supply in good shape also.You want your land to support the cattle that are run on it.You have to have good grass that supplies good nutrition to the cattle.Fertilization and a good water source is a must.If you are going to rent you must furnish a good product.Tenants will see this and be willing to pay for it.If you won't or cannot furnish this to potential renters then you wll continue to have problems like you are having now.Clients that just need a spot to hold a few cattle for a few weeks or months will still rent from you but,as you are seeing now they will not want to do fence repairs or be told how many head they can put on the ground.Finally,When you get your ground in tip top shape consult with your County Farm Coopertive Agent as he can look at the property and advise as to how many animals the land can support.Use this information in a signed contract with your next renter.The contract should also contain binding info about who maintains fences,fertilize,monetary agreements,lenght of contract and anything else pertaining to the rental agreement.Get it all on paper and there will be no suprises for either party.Give a good product for the money with a written contract and things will be much easier.

The era in which you could have had such an agreement has long past.Now it's all business,so you have to approach it from that aspect. Tell him you want him out because of the problems and he not keeping the agreement .be a little honorable and return portion of the prepaid amount.OR submit a form of agreement for his signature.
The old saying.." an oral agreement is not worth the paper it is written on" seems relevant.