Shibaura SL1643 is REAL UNSTABLE, Help, I almost tipped over

I"m a real tractor rookie and just wanted something small to do a
little work around my .75 acres which is partially on a grade. I found
a real nice Shibaura SL1643 (19hp, 1500 lbs, 4WD) w/loader that I
thought would work nicely. I got it home and before I even got near the
steepest area of the property I damn near tipped it over. It seems to
have a loader that is a little too large for the tractor (5 ft. wide)
which puts a lot of weight on the front tires along with the fact that
the front differential pivots it wants to tip right over. Do these
little grey market tractors only work well on level ground or do I need
some ballast in back to improve weight distribution and get the weight
on the back tires? Do some tractors not pivot at the front
differentials? Are the modern Kubota type tractors with the squatty
little tires have a much lower center of gravity and perform better for
what I need to do? I was thinking about making a big concrete ballast
to hang off the back of the 3pt hitch, how much should I make it weigh.
Is there an ideal weight distribution I should shoot for (ex. 50/50
between front and back wheels)? Thanks, Mike.

Our new kubota is NOT stable, but after using that stupid thing, tippiness is the least of our concerns.

If you keep the bucket low to the ground that'll help alot. And find someone who knows what theye doing and will be able to help you.

Looks like too much loader for that little tractor. You may be able to get the rear wheels wider by swapping the left wheel for the right, if the offset of the wheel is set up that way. The first thing that I would do, though is to get a smaller loader for it, or narrow that one down.

Try turning all four wheels around ,so the dish will be out.Should give a little more width.Also may need to add weigh's to wheels

I didnt know that Shibaura made tractors, I thought they only made engines for Case Ih NH. How old is it? What did you pay for it?
I agree that you should keep the bucket as low to the ground as possible, you may want to get a 3 point weight box.

I'd load the rear tires and put on at least 1 set of wheel weights.Also a counter weight on the 3 pt hitch would help

Rear wheel weights are a must when a loader is on the machine. Might want to check if the previous owner had or still has them. The bucket width is too much for that unit as is also.

Get your local tire shop to come out and load the rear tires w/ fluid or better yet, take the tractor to them to avoid service call. Then, as others have said get a set of rear wheel weights and/or a ballast box for the 3 pt.

OK,
I think I'll see about swapping the wheels to see if they will sit wider, look into a weight on the hitch, and see if I can get a smaller loader. Now you guys are saying two things, "add wheel weights" and also "load the rear tires", are these two different things? Filling the tires with liquid and also some type of addition weights on the wheels? Apparently Shibaura made tractors for Ford/New Holland, I don't know what year it is yet, just got it.

Lanse is right, with a little tractor like that, keep the bucket low while you're moving. First if will let you see where you're going, and second, it gets the CG low for stability.

Rear axles on these are designed to work properly with the wheel dish out. Some 50 HP and higher tractors have front axles that are designed with the strength and steering geometry to handle reversed wheels (dish out) without damage but these small ones are definitely not. That causes a huge overload on the outer bearings and the leverage ends up causing seal leakage, excessive wear and breakage at the outer 4WD parts. The change in steering geometry requires much more steering effort, more rapid wear and breakage of steering parts. I see the loader is not sized properly to the tractor with respect to the distance between the loader and the front tires when the bucket is down. Especially on a tractor this small and with such a short wheelbase, that distance should be as short as is possible without hitting the tires. Yes, you need the maximum safe ballast in the rear; fluid, wheel weights and rear weight. If you don't already have one, get a manual for that tractor (or the comparable Ford/NH) and follow the guidelines for the maximum safe ballast. So glad you didn't get hurt and hope the tips you're getting here help.

Very good advice from Lanse. Your first sentence says it all. "I have a new toy and I want to play." Learn to walk before you try to run, tractors are NOT unsafe they are only machines, operators make them unsafe. To make it more stable adjust the wheels out as far as possible, weight the rear end, and carry the bucket LOW unless stopped to dump. The bucket should not be wider than the tractor tires. Remember you don't have a tractor you have a glorified lawn mower.

here is a link to tire ballast chart for loading the rears. example if you have 12-24 rears, using a 5lb per gallon of chloride, you add about 330 lbs per rear tire. that would give you an extra 600 or so lbs aditional. looking at the photo it does look like a little bit too much loader for the tractor. if you hve hilly ground look in to a set of rear duals, (2 tires per rear axle) that would give you a wider stance, last would be to use a 55 gallon drum, set it up so it attaches to the 3 point hitch, add another 500 or so lbs of either concrete or gravel to the drum for a counterweight. load it, dual it, and rear weight it, use common sense take it slow and be careful.
tire ballast chart

like most said LOAD THE REAR TIRES and if they are add some more to the three point but keep it low and make sure you keep your seat belt on and if it don't have one GET ONE looks like it has a roll bar but thats the first one i have seen in the center of the tractor should be over the rear axle and over the seat

Thanks gary, i learned from the best.

SHIBAURA built the 1000,00,10,15 and 20 series for ford in (TWO&FWD) models in gas and diesel.Two and three cylinder.Production for 20 years from 1973to 1993. CENTAUR

Windshield washer fluid or Rim Guard/beet juice instead of calcium chloride. Do you want to carry salt water around in your tractor with it always trying to corrode parts.
My Father just made a service call on his 2355. The valve stem rusted/corroded to bits where it bonded to the tube.

So the way I got the tractor is as you see it in the picture, wheel dishes out in back and dishes in on the fronts. This had the valve stems in on the back and out on the fronts. So you're saying don't turn the dish out on the fronts? That would widen my stance a good couple of inches per side. You think it will cause problems. As far as filling the tires, is it as simple as removing the valve from the stem and filling the tires up with fluid through the stems? I actually had the bucket damn near rubbing on the ground when it started tipping on me, that's how tippy and unstable this thing currently is. Thanks, Mike.

if you are in a warm place and it don't freeze you can fill with just water but if you have tubeless tires you MUST fill above the rim with what ever you use

Didn't read all the replies, I can guess what they were.

I farm, drive tractors for 40 years now, small to large. About 1/2 of my 8 tractors are narrow front, others are wide front. Been through it all.

I got a compact Ford tractor with loader a couple years ago, 27hp, 4wd, with loader.

That is the SCARIEST!!!!!! thing I ever drove in my life. I was pulling an epty wagon down the driveway hill, & it about shoved me down the hill & over on my side. I have never driven anything else on the farm that scared me so much in 4 decades.......

Of course, no fluid in the rear tires. I called the very next day & had the coop come out & fill (75% is considered 'full', need the small air cushion....) the tires with calcium cloride.

What a difference! Very useful & safe machine now. I just used it this very evening, to pull 400 bu of oats in a big gravity wagon into the shed. Works with full wagons now.

I can't believe the dealers are allowed to sell these things to inexperienced people without fluid in the rears. They are horribly unstable without it.

Some folks don't like the calcium cloride. It can rust things if it leaks. But, it is by far the best option. It weights over 11lbs per gallon depending how it is mixed. It doesn't freeze. It is not poisonious (it'll kill grass if it spills out, but it won't kill your pets like antifreezes do...).

Antifreeze weighs less than water - around 7 lbs per gallon. You only get what, 60% the weight????

You want weight on the back of that tractor. Get some good fluid in it. When not exposed to oxygen, CC doesn't rust anything. You just have to watch for, flush off, & fix leaks. Normal maintenence....

Rim Guard costs more, made from beet juice, if you don't want the CC.

My coop would be pretty mad at me if I used washer fluid or antifreeze & contaminated their supply of CC when they come to service my tractors.

I'd want no part of these off fluids.

Your call, of course - it's your tractor.

When I really use the loader for a hard day's work, I have a weight box I hang on the 3pt. This makes it very stable, even with a big load on the loader. I don't rely on just the weight in the tires..... This weight, extended behind the rear axle, helps take a little weight off the front axle. It acts like a teeter totter, weight hanging behind the rear of the tractor pulls a littlew weight off the front axle.

You do not want to widen the front wheels. This puts extreme stress on the front joints - your whole tractor is balancing on that front axle, lot of weight & stress there - it would be against the warrentee. Since your (and all) tractors pivot on the front axle anyhow, it wouldn't make any difference anyhow.

I know, so often folks are tld how unstable oan old narrow front tractor is, and a newer wide front end is safer. But that really isn't the big deal it's made to be. All tractors pivot in front, so it only is a small stability thing, not a big deal.

The loader tractor I grew up on and used - and still have - is a Farmall H tractor, narrow front. Dad made cement wheel weights for it, 200lbs on each side. For heavy work, we put a platform & another 500lbs on the back of it.

Never felt unsafe on that tricycle tractor - because it is balasted properly.

Wow was I scared on the compact before it had fluid in it. Can't believe they can sell something like that.

Put some good fluid in the tires - CC or Rim Guard - and have a weight box or weights to go on the 3pt for real hard use.

Be safe.

--->Paul

A lot of those grey market japanese tractors were narrow from the start, also very short wheelbase. Not only would I load the tires, I'd try to find a way to make it wider. Sometimes, with the rims dished out, you can still buy another couple of inches by moving the tires out more. I have a David Brown and one of the things I love about it is the weight and the super wide stance.

I know of one dealer in my area who is smart enough to not let a loader tractor they sell go out without fluid in the rear or some other form of counterweight. It takes ALOT of weight to counter balance a loader tractor.

One problem is many of those little tractor companies will let anyone sell them and the dealers are as inexperienced as many of the buyers are. The other problem is they are overgrown lawn tractors and were not built with weight in them like many of the older tractors used to be. As Marlowe said. BUCKLE UP! Since you have a roll bar of sorts use the seat belt. I would recommend loading the tires (all 4) with rim guard. If you're doing a lot of loader work you'll want some extra rear weight either on the wheels or on the 3pt hitch. As with any tractor you HAVE to be careful, keep the loader low and your speed down. This and some weight should get things going for you.

I've had a 1300 LB cement weight on the back of the loader tractor (630 JD) for thirty years or so and I wouldn't be without it. In fact, it saved the life of a guy who was driving it when the steering locked and he went into a steep road ditch. The wheels stayed on the ground and he drove it back up on the road again. Without the weight hanging low on the back the tractor would have rolled on him for sure.

The downfall to a rear weight is it gets in the way of drawbar work and it can do damage to anything you accidentally back into. (don't ask me how I know)

Unlike fluid, the weight can be easily removed if you want to make the tractor light again to prevent damage to the lawn if the ground is soft.Jim

Listen to him. And you DO NOT want to turn the front wheels out to widen, that will make it more unsafe. The ideal is for the king pin to be in the exact center of the tire but as that can probably not be it has to be as close as possible. That wheel the farther out it is takes that buch more power for you to turn them BUT if you hit a hole or other object it makes it so much easier for it to wipp the stering wheel out of your hands and breaking a hand in doing that and also causing the tractor to turn so sharp in can cause it to roll if it hasent broke something first. The reason the old cars turned so much easier without power steering is that they had the kingpin closer to the center of the tire than cars now that need the power steering to turn.

Continuing, keep the rear wheels in line with the front wheels, if they are wider then in narrow places where the front end will go thru OK you will forget about that rear end being enough wider that te rear wheel will hit that tree,post,wall or what ever and cause the front end to be wiped to the side so fast you will not know what happened. On a narrow front you are automaticaly aware of the wider rear end but not on a wide front end tractor. Use the CC or the beat juice and plenty of cast weight on the rear wheels.

That tractor looks just about like my gray market yanmar, and it is truly dangerous on any kind of slop when using the loader and infact will catapult you from the seat if you lift a load to high on level ground.
some actions i took:
> made rear wheel weights out of dually wheels filled with cement. chesap and pretty effective. really wanted to go with a stack of manhole covers, but couldn't find any.
> when lifting anything but sawdust, i keep the box blade on back.
> keep the bucket as low as possible while moving from spot to spot with the bucket filled
> use the bigger tractor when ever I'm really lifting!

The thing that makes these lil guys handy is also what makes them deadly!

Seeing that front end loader with that huge bucket reminds of an ant carrying a twig or leaf that is twice as big as its own body.............

I'm certain the addition of ballast would help your situation..........but so would a bucket 1/3 or even 1/2 smaller in size!!

I know it's been mentioned before but it wont hurt you to hear it again.........keep that bucket as low to the ground as absolutley possible and avoid side-hilling as much as possible, either drive straight up or straight down!! Be carefull!!

That loader is too big. It sticks out too far in front of the tractor and the bucket is way too big. With that loader you probably wouldn't want to pick up more than a hundred pounds. Even the smaller tractors with the right size loader are only good for about 5 or 600 lbs. Carry a heavy implement on the back if doing anything with the loader. If not using the loader, take the bucket off. Any welder could narrow the bucket for you pretty easily. A 42 inch bucket would be more appropriate. Dave