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Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Last week at the horse farm across the road from my place a rider was hurt while riding a horse.The ambulance and fire dept responed.They called a helocopter to transport the injured rider.
This is where things go in a direction that no one can explane to me.At least to my satisfaction.In order for the choper to land they need a fire truck at the LZ. The driveway into the place crosses a creek with a bridge that is to narrow for the fire truck. So,where do they land the choper? In my Soybean field.They could have driven down the road another 10 seconds and landed in my hay field on the other side of the road,and, that has been mowed.Eveyone I have called has all said the same thing.We are not responsable for damages.The horse farm was responsable,that is where the event took place.I went over and talked to the guy that runs the horse farm.When I asked who's idea it was to land in my beans. He told me they land where ever they want.He had nothing to do with it.When I told him I wanted to be compensated for my losses. He told me I was trespassing and to get off the place.
I think in the end all I'm going to end up with is just another reason to dislike horse people.
What's a guy to do?
 
The police helicopter was chasing a guy on our road and he decided to try to hide in the sow bean field across from us. The helicopter chased him all over that field and of course the cops in cars soon joined the chase. He finally hit a low spot and got stuck but not before he went all over about twenty acres. The farmer was very uinhappy to say the least but nobody was responsible for that destruction either.
 
Contact the hospital that sent the chopper. At least around here, they carry insurance to cover the pilot and damage he may cause. If they can collect it from the injured person, let his insurance company figure that out.
 
You need to talk to the FD and ambulance, get a copy of the run reports.
Then go to the police and file a report giving them copies.
Owners insurance should pay for damages.
Fd and ambulance can only tell you location and time, nothing more but should be all you need.
Also try to find out WHO made the call for the air evac
 
I dont know who would be responsible, but my guess would be the injured party. That being said, Ive seen a lifeflight helicopter land in a soybean field. The damage is very MINIMAL. More damage from the people caring the stretcher. I guess if they drove the firetruck right up in there to that would be annoying. My guess would be 1/10th of and acre at the very most. The one that landed in my bean field last year didnt hurt 1/100th of an acre. So what Im saying is , not too big of a loss for you so move on.
 
So you don't like horses. Did it ever occur to you to show some compassion for the "Human Being" that was on that horse? Fortunately, you were able to provide a valuable contribution for that individual's rescue. I commend you. Your comments however remind me of the south end of a north bound horse.
 
I wrote a lot but decided it would be flagged as a hostile post...

Your $70 worth of beans are rather inconsequential to the fact someone was hurt bad enough to need a helicopter. A field is a safe place for a multimillion dollar air ambulance to land. A firecrew is trained to designate a safe area and to guide a pilot to the ground.

I suppose if it were your relatives it wouldn't bother you that much, huh? What if you fell off your tractor? Be ok then?

Personally I think I would stop the self centered, ambulance chasing whining and ask if the injured party was ok. Maybe even be a little proud that if you hadn't had that field that helicopter may not have had somewhere to land and the person may be much worse off than they are now.
Your beans aren't worth as much as a life or lives... and you are making yourself look bad by making something out of a hill of beans. Maybe next time you are in McDonalds you can make some money, I hear that the coffee is hot (but they didn't tell you so it MUST be their fault you burn your lip).

Too early in the morning to hear this drivvle.
 
Technically someone is responsible, but I can't imagine someone not willing to sacrifice a few soybeans to help someone in need.
 
Pretty typical attitude for someone from New Jersey. They move to Florida and share their refreshing points of view with us.
 
I don't know but I guess if it were my field of beans I would have been out there chasing them off. Giggle.

They landed in my neighbors field the other day to pick up a dumb Cop who thought the speed limit was for other people not him.
Scared me half to death when they flew over my barn to get there about 100 ft. under one of those things is real noisy.

I'm not sure but I think that they have the right to set down in any property that is close to the injured person I would check my home owners policy to see if it would cover your Dollar two ninety eight losses.
Walt

PS after this summer of selling hay to horse people I have to agree with you about horse people.
 
JT, From a strict legal viewpoint, if someone does damage to your property it is more likely they (like the helicopter people) NOT the person who was injured that necessitated the use of the helicopter. NEVER say never mind you but the helicopter people would certainyl be prime candidates while a lawyer will try and join in the lawsuit everyone and their mother in law that he or she can lol

NOTE as a matter of public policy and safety I doubt the helicopter folks can be easily sued (if at all) cuz they are probably immune absent GROSS NEGLIGENCE OR MALICIOUS CONDUCT which is awfullyyyyyyyyy hard to establish.

Bottom Line, the helicopter folks more then the horse folks are the responsible, but I doubt you could ever get far down that road, its certainly NOT a case lawyers would take on a contingency basis due to immunity and public health and safety laws protecting them. After all if youre injured your life is more important then private property in our society at least so I doubt you will get anythign out of this???

John T retired engineer now semi retired Country Lawyer
 
well, suppose someone had died over there instead. Then the horse farmer would be so appalled at your lack of respect for someone that died, that he'd just kill you right there.
 
Well, so you know this for the future, if you have a pond, pool, waterway, cistern or other water source, the fire dept. is allowed to draw from that if they need.
 
what's a guy to do......be thankfull you live in a country where the cavalry is sent to those in need, you never know when it's your turn to take ride in that chopper...........

I took my own ride several years ago and was damned happy/lucky to have had that ride.........

Under almost any other circumstances you'd have a legit gripe!!!
 
So, how is the rider that was injured? How big of an area was damaged? I understand your point about 10 seconds farther, but in most emergencies, well its an emergency, there will always be coulda, shoulda, woulda's. I would approach it as I would want it approached. Come to him as a honestly concerned neighbor, he probably has liability insurance that would cover some of your losses since it was dmages directly related to a n accident on his ranch. I know I am insured for any damages resulting from my cattle. If you went over there all agitated and being a closed minded individual, I would have kicked you out as well. Never , ever, try to work out them things when you are all P.O.'d. Heck, he probably has at lot more issues that are worrying him sick right now, such as guilt, possible law suit, lack of insurance coverage, and all that goes with having a liable injury accident on your property. Give it some time, get some "actual" and "honest" damage amounts and see how big of a deal it really is, then some day discuss it over some coffee or root beer and a DQ dilly bar.
 
I'd notify your insurance company (farm owners) first and see what they say. It would have been better IMO to ask the horse farm owner who his liability carrier is rather than asking him for damages. No use antagonizing the neighbors. Your insurance adjustor or agent should be able to walk you through who to file the claims with.

A lot depends on who the helicopter was owned by too. If it was a government entity then soverign immunity is an issue. But, even then, the state damaged your property and you are entitled to compensation.

Hopefully, this can be settled with a simple liability claim handled with among the insurance people. Otherwise I'd say its a small claims court case, listing everyone involved and let the judge sort it out.

I differ from most of the other posts who are critical here. You had damages, you are in no way apparently responsible, so you should be compensated for them.
 
Actually, the individual fleeing from the police is financially responsible for damages. The trouble is getting the money from him/her.
 
JT,

I"m in your corner, all the way. There is absolutely no excuse, that the responding folks could not have landed nearby where the injured person was...after all, IT WAS AN EMERGENCY! There is no justifiable reason for them to destroy your property in the process and then claim public safety as an excuse.
 
I think your making a big deal over nothing.You probably didn't suffer over 5 bucks worth of damage anyhow.It would take a lot of damage to loose a bushel of soybeans,and a chopper only uses two runners.All you will accomplish is making your neighors think you ars an a$$hole.
 
You are lucky if they only wrecked a 1/2 acre of beans. But.......think how you would feel if that guy died that fell off that horse. And then here you are going over to ask for compensation for some beans, maybe 40-60 bushels worth, (I dont know).
Where my parents live a middle aged lady lost control of her car while she was having a stroke. She ran her car on my parents lawn and ran the car past their house and into the lake and she drown---True story. Happened in 2005. My parents didnt think for 1 second that "their lawn" should have been fixed cause some 40 year old lady ran over it with her car and drown in the lake.
If you are really out a lot of money like say---$200 or more then approach it with a nice neighbor attitude to the farm owner.
 
Absolulty , Ponds and Lakes ect are public property for emergencywater use happenes here All the time in fire emergencies ,,
I have an idea What po s ya JT ,, on the wrong side , some of these siren and Lite Guys get pretty goofy in an emergency,, No common sense ,, Just see what All else they can f --- up while in the neighborhood
 
I forgot to add in my previous post, we've become a nation, in the last 40/50 yrs., who feel "the world owes us a living".............something happens to us our first response is "sue 'em!!".............granted there are things in life that one shouldn't have to "take on the chin" but a nation of people who feel that it is acceptable to sue a resturant for having served them coffee which when spilled on their body, burned their skin, is a definite sign of moving backwards..............
 
JT, look at what you wrote, I can understand anyones frustration with this, but that helo pilot's mission is to save lives, he had to make a decision, put yourself in his shoes for a minute, can't be a malicious act, it's one of life/safety.

I would not see this as a reason to dislike any particular people.

Now, I can also understand your side, we all get heated up and sometimes it takes a little while to sort things out and think rationally, that's part of life as I see it.

I'll share this with you, about 2 weeks ago, I spotted a flegdling robin in my yard on the bank of a cut I made for a new garage bay. I figured he was mature enough to fly, but crept up from the top and figured I'd grab him by surprise, if he could fly, well he's healthy, no not the case, though he hopped up and came right to me, with his mouth open, believe it or not, well I took him in and right away, insects, berries, moistened chicken and in no time he was perking right up, I knew I'd have seen him off, he started taking berries from the tree on his own and pecking at insects. Had him caged up outside just in case momma did come back, well I go in to have some dinner, and the neighbors wretched cat got him someghow. You know, some might think it weird, so what, but the little guy really meant the world to me, and I wanted to skin that cat alive. Well you can't do that, but I was livid, some would say what over a bird ??? Yup, I felt terrible because he was depending on me and I let him down, it's an awful feeling, my first reaction was to skin that cat, but that aint the answer. Boy I've re-habbed a few birds in my time and theres no greater feeling than seeing one off when the time comes, this guy would have been around, you should have seen him perk up when he saw me, I could call him over and he'd jump right up on my hand.

See what you can do, maybe you've got a claim there somehow, if not be grateful that the person who was evacuated lived and was better off because of it, you could also help by educating the people who fly by letting them know about crop damage, learn from this one, similar situation, they might be able to do different.

All in all, good to let some steam off, better to reason than to do something you'll regret, best of luck with it !
 
Well said, it is all about the money. And that person that burned their leg on hot coffee and got $250,000 from Mcdonalds was in it for the money plain and simple.
The screw em, I want the money attitude just doesnt cut it.
 
JT I sympathize with your plight. I suggest you talk to the authority that called the helo or to the helo company--the question your asking is "what insurance company are you billing?". Then you estimate your lose and send a nice letter to that insurance company with a claim.

To all those with the BS responses. Answer these questions: 1) how much are beans today? 2) What is the average expected yield for beans? 3) How much area is damaged? 4) What's the lose figure out to? and Finally when was the last time you said "Oh Well" when someone destroyed your front yard?
 
I'm a volunteer firefighter, and once a farmer didnt want us to set a chopper down in his field after a wreck and they had to land down the road. Once they got to the landing zone, the victim had passed. I'm apalled you want money over the value of a life saved. How are they now? The rider and the beans?
 
This is very disturbing, some people say shut up and take it, others say someone has responsibility for damages. I think the mindset on emergency vehicles is God like, they don't care about personal property or owners rights. And it is hard to recoop damages.
 
Anyone flying a helicoptor allways has a choice of where to land, a grassy field sounds better than a bean field, he could have sucked up bean stocks and downed the engine, the pilot was an idiot. But can't sue him because he is a public servent??
 
If your being compensated for your loss is really that important to you maybe this bunch of great forum guys would all kick in a few dollars so you can quite worrying over this and let you get on with life. After all, life is too short to worry about such.

Sorry the emergency landing took food off of your table.
 
You seem to be experienced in both emergency response and flying rotory winged aircraft, how many years have you driven a firetruck and flown helicopters?
 
1) It's not that they need a fire truck at the LZ. Helicopters land day in, day out without spontaneously combusting.

But what they do need is someone to mark the corners of an area roughly 100'x100' (used to be 60x60) that has been cleared of hazards. That includes walking a field to look for pipes or such that could puncture the bottom of the helicopter if it's tall vegetation like hay. It also means walking the area if you're in doubt whether it's muddy.

They also act as another set of eyes for the pilot and flight crew, to warn them of hazards like power lines.

2) We have paid, both modest cash & member's labor, as well as insurance claims, for damages done to non-involved properties as a result of fire company actions.

The most common scenario is parking of apparatus or member's vehicles on neighboring lawns during mud season. Get the rakes and grass seed out.

Then there was the day a good samaritan had an accident victim sit in the back of the samaritan's uninvolved car and we removed the roof...

Under Connecticut law, the Firefighters personally are protected unless they are "willful and wanton" (malicous). However the Town assumes the liability for their actions and can not use governmental immunity as a defense. In our case, you could put in a claim to the town, who'd likely forward it to the insurance carrier of the fire company. Once the fire company liability insurance is exhausted, then the town's liability insurance kicks in.

The reality of it...is for a couple hundred bucks you're probably in for more aggravation then it's worth trying to pursue someone.

That said, I'd take a photo of the damage, and send a letter to the Fire Department & helicopter service explaining how their poor decision did have a financial impact on you that could've been easily avoided, and ask them to incorporate it into their training in the future.

Pics do help -- I can remember going back 20 years being told to avoid driving through Alfafa fields if we could. It was another 10 years probably before I knew what Alfafa looked like.
 
We run a horse farm and the equestrian liability laws are crystal clear... The rider is responsible for all damages. I suggest making up with the owner of the farm so you can get the name and address of the rider... give this info to your insurance company.

Here's a link to the NJ equestrian activities statute...
Untitled URL Link
 
To save your time and trouble, simply turn it into your insurance company and they will take care of the rest. Despite many replies to the contrary here, altruisim is not the motivating factor in most elements of a rescue. To the pilot and crew, it is a job they are paid for.The helicopter owner will certainly bill big dollars to someone. The injured rider (or their insurance company) will sue the horse farm. The horse farm will hire lawyers, who will charge huge fees. The hospital and doctors will charge many, many dollars for their services. Insurance companies will raise their rates to recoup the cost of the lawsuit. You might as well get yours, because everyone else darn sure will get theirs. This is the way it works, and I do not mean it to reflect poorly on the dedicated, hard working first responders. They perform miracles daily at a job I cannot begin to imagine doing myself.
 
The helicopter operator is responsible for any damages form landing and taking off. However, the ground crew probably trampled more beans than the helicopter. Also, there wasn´t a need for the fire truck just because the helicopter was landing. Thos EMS pilots can pick a sufficient landing zone without help most of the time.

Uness you have significant losses, I would just mark it up as helping someone injured and finding out that your horse neighbor isn´t worth much.

PS, I work for a large helicopter operator (400+ helicopters.
 
The helicopter operator is responsible for any damages form landing and taking off. However, the ground crew probably trampled more beans than the helicopter. Also, there wasn´t a need for the fire truck just because the helicopter was landing. Thos EMS pilots can pick a sufficient landing zone without help most of the time.

Uness you have significant losses, I would just mark it up as helping someone injured and finding out that your horse neighbor isn´t worth much.

PS, I work for a large helicopter operator (400+ helicopters).
 
jt, i have just a few questions:
1. If the guy had been injured in a tractor roll-over and the same incidents were to occur, would it give you another reason to dislike tractor people?
2. If you had just had a traumatic event at your place that catestrophicly injured a family member, freind, or customer and some jacka$$ that is SUPPOSED to be your neighbor came over demanding compensation for a few rows of beans, would you use a hand gun, shot gun or rifle to usher his tail off your spread?
3. When the chips are down for you (and they will be), do you expect this neighbor to come to your aid now? You've set the standard for neighborliness - you'll be living with it now.

Talk to your accountant- he'll be able to calculate your loss and take care of it in your taxes.Talk to your insurer- they will also know how to handle it. Then talk to your pastor.
 
I would get out and take some pictures now and survey how much damage there is. If there is enough crop damage that the dollar amount makes you want to pursue this I would call my insurance carrier and let them handle it. If your actual loss is low/ not worth bothering with, consider it a cheap lesson on what kind of neighbor you have across the road. If it is a small loss, I would'nt rush to pursue it as the recovery costs may be more than the loss. I had a helicopter land in one of my haylots across from my house in early winter a few years ago to transport an accident victim - it didnt do any damage that I could see the following year, but it sure made a big whiteout with the 1nch or 2 of snow on the ground when it took off .
 
Regarding horse people, they aren't the only ones I have a gripe with. My wife, does in in fact, have a horse. I do ATTEMPT to sell hay to horse people out of the field, they look at it and say it isn't good enough. Funny thing is, it is just fine late winter after setting in my barn. I get a dollar a bale more out of my hay once it makes it to the barn, even if it is 15 minutes after it went in there.
My other big gripe is ATV's. Yes, I do have one, but don't go out and tear up fields that don't belong to me. DOUG
 
Some years ago a fireman on the way to a call[at the firehouse] in his POV came around the corner and plowed my freinds sister backing out her driveway.She was told he was an emergency vehicle and no insurance would cover it .The poor girl had to pick up the tab for the bodywork on her car.[in New jersey].I hope in this case the horse guy pays.Maybe you can get on Judge Judy.Shell fix them.
 
John,
I'm agreeing mostly with the good of emergency responders, but as in every group there are a few cowboys. In our area some volunteers use their blue lights a little irresponsibly; 1/2 block short cut to station in a town FPD of 1.5 square mile. Telling police officer they were on way home to answer a fire page. Fire Chief of 20 man & woman volunteer FD got married in his CHIEF uniform (self bought).
 
On behalf of all Fire and EMS personnel - Thank You! for your selfless contribution to the rescue of that seriously injured person.
 
in our area, we have predeginated landing zones for helicopters. if a different spot is picked, its the responsibility of the landing zone command to pick it, which is normally a fire dept. so the individual who picks it, is taking the responsibility for it. its a matter of someone thinking clearly and logically. i would say the person who picked it wasnt a farmer.

this would definitly be one for a lawyer. people need to know they cant just pick willy nilly. number one rule of fire fighting to to cause no harm to person or property. someone forgot that.
 
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here- tell me how this plays out:
My neighbor, DrPanhead, has a buddy out back working in his shop and buddy severes his leg operating a chopsaw. The ambulance comes and loads him up, and while backing out of Panhead's driveway wipes out my mailbox and 5 sections of 4 board fence.
Nxt morning, when I walk over to tell Panhead I want compensation for 160 board feet of fence retail plus installation, he sics his Pitt Bull on me- correctly identifying me as a real a-hole. Just another reason for me to hate bikers, right?
"F" Panheads buddy with no leg- Who's Judge Judy gonna get to pay for my fence?
 
I have a little different view of things. I'm an ex-volunteer firefighter, and I've run Lifeflight LZ's before.

Sounds to me like the FD just grabbed the first place open and flat enough and didn't bother to look beyond the end of their nose.

Understandable during the stress of a lifethreatening emergency, but equally understandable for the landowner to want to be compensated for the damage. I don't think the gentleman in this case is out of line at all, and I'm disappointed by the lack of professionalism on the part of the responders AND the other property owner.

It was drilled into me for 15 years that a firefighter's prioritys were Life Safety and Property Conservation, in that order.

JMHO, YMMV.
 
Boo hiss to the helicopter operator if beans grow there like they do here. I can't imagine watching people try and carry someone on a stretcher through beans up to their belly button. Plus, if they had the rotor going, it would have been a matted mess. The risk of carrying someone injured through that would have been immense if there had truly been a better place to land within a reasonable distance.

It is a little poor for your neighbor not to have at least offered something for your contribution to the effort. Just remember if him not offering makes you mad, that if this happens in the future to not make the same mistake he has.
 
It seems that the horse farm owner, as a good neighbor, should have offered some kind of compensation for the crop damage. I am thinking that the fact that no one has offered any help is the part that angers you most, rather than the real cash value of the damage..
 
everyone needs to remeber that the pilot only cares if the scene and area around landing zone is safe and if the ground is clear of flying debry.

dont blame the pilot for the peice of ground used. they rely on the person on the ground for safe landing spot. that is why the landing zone people have training classes on setting up landing zones.
 
JT, isn't it correct that by law both public and private medevac responders are required to have liability insurance? Google research would indicate so...
 
Sounds to me like you"ve got a reasonable question and if that question was put to the neighbor in a calm, reasonable manner and got the stated response then he is in fact an a--hole. In the end if his place ever catches fire it will go to the ground because the firetrucks won"t be able to reach it, a fact I"m sure his insurance company would be really happy to know about....
 
c'mon, Matt! the injured party?
When an ambulance hauling a$$ to the hospital crashes into someone else's car, does the patient pay for body work?
The patient's insurance is paying for the Medevac- that makes him a "customer", with the right to expect professional behaviour from the service provider that absolves him of any liability.
 
Ya know, where i come from the wife would have walked over and found out if her church lady's group could have sent meals over to the family of the injured...
but, heck, this is south of the mason-Dixon line and not NJ- we're just dumba$$ wannabe Christians down here.
I'm amazed that the same dirt farmers that will drop everything to harvest a sick dudes feild at substantial expense to themselves will pi$$ and moan about a few bushel of beans messed up in a medevac event. Un- freakin'-beleivable. I'm thinkin' he should bill the HORSE- that's the real culprit!
 
As I posted earlier, its the pilot who in essence set the bird down. I worked a fatal accident just this past Saturday in which originally called for 3 (yes three) choppers. I didn't realize that they avoided the hay field just off the road when they landed on the road. The fire department preferred the road so they could get the EMS unit to the chopper. I will also say that I spent 5 years on a fire department locally and yes they do avoid thinking about others property. But in reality, the chopper pilot can and will look for the best place to set down. Ours avoid anything over 6 inches of anything. They also avoid bean stubble. They also compensate for damage done. I agree that its not your fault that they are taking money off your table, but that is why they and you have insurance. You shouldn't suffer for someone else's misfortune. There is also no reason why it can't be worked out. Call the hospital where the chopper originated, they will point you in the right direction for the damage. Make sure you have a good estimate on damage when you call.
 
I dont know if you can recover anything or not. I have NO doubt and would be willing to bet however that a good percentage (i didnt say all) of the people here makeing you out to be some kind of creep would be the first to whine and complain if it were their bean field.
 
After reading all these posts it's apparent few if any of the respondents have actually seen an air ambulance land to pick up a victim. Where I work on the S.E. corner of the Des Moines metro we frequently have helicopters land on the road to meet ambulances from small communities to avoid rush hour traffic in DSM. Before the helicopter actually lands, it circles several times before landing. Having ridden in a helicopter before, unless its dark, it's easy to see where you're going and landing. The pilot ultimately decides where to land and is in communication with the ground crew. Very poor judgment on the pilot's behalf. The private hospitals own the choppers here. Broad Lawns (Polk county owned) doesn't have one.
As far as horse people go, they don't impress me at all. When Platts Nursery in the middle of Waterloo Ia closed, a couple of horse people bought the 20 acre parcel and called a meeting of all of the residential adjoining land owners and informed them that an old city ordinance allowed them to have up to 80 horses. They planned to basically have a horse farm to provide boarding to anyone citing that they had to drive about 20 miles to Raymond and it was just too far. They would probably have between 20 to 30 horses on average. When Dad stood up and asked "What about the manure and the smell?" they said their horses weren't just any kind of horse, they were Arabians and wouldn't stink. Thankfully, the city told them they could have their 80 horses, but they must be THEIR horses. No boarding. They do have 3 horses last I knew. About half of the property was sold off and 3 high dollar homes have been built.
 
Been firefighter for thirty plus, and EMS that long also. My opinion is I have to make the call regardless if you have had a week or so to observe better places. Maybe if you voleenteered you would understand as well. You are complaining about beans---ain't worth a hill of beans to me if we are trying to save a life. Any idea in dollars and cents what a vollenteer fireman or EMS donates in dollars and cents?

I'm sure that you all have ideas on how profitable our units are. Try it for goodness sake and see for yourselves. I can't think of any farmer in our area that would have the kahonas to even ask a neighbor for money. Most I would guess probably would have offfered you some sort of settlment, but again no one would have asked.

Let this drift over your minds if you need the dust off, and they don't come. We live in a small rural area, and we hear pages go out to neighboring towns numerous times with no one responding.

This is not intended for us old guys, buy maybe your kid or grand kids might also get a chance to ride one some day---except there are to many bean fields in your area, law suits. insurance claims. So they no longer try.

For Goodness sake they make mistakes, we do every call probably, but we get lots and lots of thank you's, and hugs from those that are very very thankfull. There are a few rotten beans in every field, and I'm probably one of them. We use alot of poor judgment, and seldom pay the price.

If you make a stink with the EMS / fire department they will hate your guts no doubt, but in the end they will still do their very best to try to keep you alive if your guts are hanging from your belley some day. --- bean field or no bean field, or you could have a super large cement pad that you can think of after the fact, because you see it every day. In the mean time I would suggest you stay out of their way while they try to save a life that is less important than beans.

Now if they are a vollenteer department they will probably sign a donation card for your income tax if all else fails, and you talk to them in a reasonable manner. Those volenteers are as a whole ---pretty good folks. Many may not know the differance between a bean field and a rock pile. And while you only see them in a parade in a shinny new truck---well any idea of the hours of training, lost wages, and family problems they must face. And tax money probably just pays for their liability insurance. Any idea also how many hours of maintinance it takes to keep those trucks in tip top shape? Unless you wear the shoes, you have no idea, and there has sure been alot of those that tried it for a while, and found out that its not alot of fun.

Our EMS unit just recieved three new vollenteers three months ago on a Monday night, Wed morning a new guy followed me into our silica mine to help /observe a lady run over by a Cat 988 (I think) 10 yard end loader-- tip of the toe to the top of her head--any idea what that looks like? Fri. eve a 22 year old took a shotgun in the face. We were of no help in either case, and a heck of a way to break in a new man. His biggest remark made to me is 168 hrs of class room, and all the ride alongs did not prepare him for his first week. Want to talk about problems?-- Ever enter a mine when we are no allowed to go in? We are still dealing with that issue. I will be more than happy to pay for your beans if you promise to pay for our fines. Buy the way --the mine opened in the early fiftys, and that is the very first death inside the mine. However the road that takes us there I have probably loaded a dozen dead ones. Yet we can not go into the mine because it is not safe.

I babble alot, but I hope I help you understand why I'm not as concerened about some beans as some of you folks are. I'm sure the settlement in court will pay for some of your legal fees. You will probably sit in front of a judge that knows less about beans than any five year old, or for that fact---the attorney that will be happy to take your case. But a Judges decision will be the only opinion that counts.

I realize was very unkind, and out on my limb, but we were just informed about our hazmat classes, and don't even get me started on this home land security scam to the tax payer. Hitler would be proud of our government control, and a need to create more government jobs.
 
(quoted from post at 21:40:06 07/31/08) Been firefighter for thirty plus, and EMS that long also. My opinion is I have to make the call regardless if you have had a week or so to observe better places. Maybe if you voleenteered you would understand as well. You are complaining about beans---ain't worth a hill of beans to me if we are trying to save a life. Any idea in dollars and cents what a vollenteer fireman or EMS donates in dollars and cents?

I'm sure that you all have ideas on how profitable our units are. Try it for goodness sake and see for yourselves. I can't think of any farmer in our area that would have the kahonas to even ask a neighbor for money. Most I would guess probably would have offfered you some sort of settlment, but again no one would have asked.

Let this drift over your minds if you need the dust off, and they don't come. We live in a small rural area, and we hear pages go out to neighboring towns numerous times with no one responding.

This is not intended for us old guys, buy maybe your kid or grand kids might also get a chance to ride one some day---except there are to many bean fields in your area, law suits. insurance claims. So they no longer try.

For Goodness sake they make mistakes, we do every call probably, but we get lots and lots of thank you's, and hugs from those that are very very thankfull. There are a few rotten beans in every field, and I'm probably one of them. We use alot of poor judgment, and seldom pay the price.

If you make a stink with the EMS / fire department they will hate your guts no doubt, but in the end they will still do their very best to try to keep you alive if your guts are hanging from your belley some day. --- bean field or no bean field, or you could have a super large cement pad that you can think of after the fact, because you see it every day. In the mean time I would suggest you stay out of their way while they try to save a life that is less important than beans.

Now if they are a vollenteer department they will probably sign a donation card for your income tax if all else fails, and you talk to them in a reasonable manner. Those volenteers are as a whole ---pretty good folks. Many may not know the differance between a bean field and a rock pile. And while you only see them in a parade in a shinny new truck---well any idea of the hours of training, lost wages, and family problems they must face. And tax money probably just pays for their liability insurance. Any idea also how many hours of maintinance it takes to keep those trucks in tip top shape? Unless you wear the shoes, you have no idea, and there has sure been alot of those that tried it for a while, and found out that its not alot of fun.

Our EMS unit just recieved three new vollenteers three months ago on a Monday night, Wed morning a new guy followed me into our silica mine to help /observe a lady run over by a Cat 988 (I think) 10 yard end loader-- tip of the toe to the top of her head--any idea what that looks like? Fri. eve a 22 year old took a shotgun in the face. We were of no help in either case, and a heck of a way to break in a new man. His biggest remark made to me is 168 hrs of class room, and all the ride alongs did not prepare him for his first week. Want to talk about problems?-- Ever enter a mine when we are no allowed to go in? We are still dealing with that issue. I will be more than happy to pay for your beans if you promise to pay for our fines. Buy the way --the mine opened in the early fiftys, and that is the very first death inside the mine. However the road that takes us there I have probably loaded a dozen dead ones. Yet we can not go into the mine because it is not safe.

I babble alot, but I hope I help you understand why I'm not as concerened about some beans as some of you folks are. I'm sure the settlement in court will pay for some of your legal fees. You will probably sit in front of a judge that knows less about beans than any five year old, or for that fact---the attorney that will be happy to take your case. But a Judges decision will be the only opinion that counts.

I realize was very unkind, and out on my limb, but we were just informed about our hazmat classes, and don't even get me started on this home land security scam to the tax payer. Hitler would be proud of our government control, and a need to create more government jobs.
Click to expand...

DAMN! AINT NO WAY I COULD HAVE SAID IT BETTER ive been the fire service since 1984 around here the EMS can only call for a bird not first responders ,police, fire so i guess its their fault :D i had a homeowner come out one night to tell me to land the bird somewhere else( a good wide spot on a public road) cause it would wake up his wife :shock: i told him he better carry his a$$ back in that house while he still could
 
If youll bother to scroll down a bit, I stated that I watched a life flight land in my soybean field just last year. I stated that the damage was approximately 1/100th of and acre. Yes I know that is only 435.6 square feet. Piddly crap!!!! Ill admit I was surprised at the lack of damage after watching and ffeling all that down draft. It takes alot of damage to be worth a fight. GROW UP and quit being so danged pety.
 
Whoa Jose, I did say "my guess". Take it easy man, maybe I should list my credentials before I "guess". Lets see, Im a farmer, not a lawer, not a judge , just a farmer!
 
Seldom do we have any problems as you mentioned. Perhaps its because I'm also the village idiot, and tipping on the edge. I'm very outspoken on smoking, drinking, drugs, life jackets and helmets, but never when someone is down because of their habbits. Drunks often hinder our responce units, and we deal with them red neck style sometimes. Most everyone knows me, probably because my picture is in almost every post office in the USA.

I'm blessed with a wonderful comunity, we often must forgive a few because they simply do not understand. So many times we don't have the man power to get family members away so we feel bad about that. In a small comunity we have issues with folks wanting to know what happened. Just as often the local coffee shop members can fill me in on the details of a accident etc. Got to wonder if telling the story wrong will make me offer a different story. As you know ---NO CAN DO!

I'm not totaly convinced we are heading in the right dirrection with our emergency teams. Our government simply wants all forms filled out, and if we get enough time we can also work on a patient. Most of all this is probably to create jobs for government workers. When the young snot nose kids come in to examine our records I sometimes get the opertunity to explain why certian forms are not completed. As you know from past posts the good Lord never gave me the sence to shut up. Ain't had much school housin, seldom tactfull---but I sure as heck get my point across. When the snot nose inspectors leave you can usualy notice they lost the chip on their shoulder.

Had a deal a couple years ago -guy with heart attack on top of water tower while checking paint. I'm old, never wore a saftey harness in my life and was chewed out for not doing so this time. There wasn't a harness at the site, and no one had a idea where there was one stored. Do the math! After a dozen butt chewings, or suggestions on what must be done next time, I calmly mowed them down below knee level with all the saftey wrong doings by everyone on the ground. Lets just say that a saftey harness wasn't quite as big a deal as they had first thought.

No I'm not this big butt head that I'm implying, actualy a very friendly person who just plain has to inject common sence. You see that many times with new cops in our home town that think they must inforce the law just because it is on the books. Once they inform me that I broke the law, I tell them where they can put the law book, and to shut the-----up! Or If you are going to be here you best assist or get the he11 out of our way. I will have Andy take away your bullet Barney if you don't calm down --works wonders also. After a few times they will be more than happy to assist in any way they can.

I have three boys, all three are firemen in different towns except the youngest that is on our home town team till he starts college this next few weeks. The older two both have offered words of how do you manage both, fire and EMS as it seems to be alot of work. I told them both they just haven't got enough thank you's yet to understand.

We are in a world of hurt the last few years as most jobs have left our small town, the businesses that are here are run by older folks till they retire. So daytime emergency means, no one to help, and I don't see it getting any better. Yet I have no answers to the problem, or can I imagine the next ten years.

If you watch the news you no doubt heard of a town just up the road that Imigration officers took the largest number of non English speaking folks away from the packing house pay roll. The non English speaking has indeed created alot of problems for us red necks that figured everyone spoke English up to a few years ago.
 
Don't want to start anything here, but we have to do what we see is right---at the time when alot of things are going on. They will sit down where they feel is best regardless of public opinion. They are trying to save a life, not win a popularity contest with anyone. They did not drop down in a bean field to tick anyone off, and probably lack knowledge as to who owns what real estate. For that probably they realy don't care---heck yes it probably was a very big mistake that a attorney and bean ground owners could make a good argument. I wasn't there so my opinion doesn't count, probably more unknown facts than there are beans but I would best guess they did the best they could. And there will always be a crowd of onlookers with better ideas.

We figure any time we get a dust off that $5,000.00 --$7,000.00 is a given min.---And I realize $13.00 beans is a very valid point. Yet few emergency workers would so much as give it any thought.

Granted, like I stated before the neighbor should have offered, but who knows another neighbors thoughts.
 
I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like something that might have to be decided by a judge--that is what we elect them for and pay them the big bucks.

One of the things you would have to show is that you were harmed, and just how much you were harmed in dollar figures. I would suggest taking lots of photos of both the damaged area and of undamaged areas for possible displays in court at a later time. This needs to be done ASAP.

You might want to talk to an experienced attorney to decide if the matter is worth doing a lawsuit, and if so, just who to sue. There might be laws that protect the emergency responders. The attorney also might suggest making a claim against the horse ranch's business insurance.

Or you might just decide that it is not that big of a loss to be worth your time to go to court or get in a big hassle with the neighbors. One of the best things that anyone ever told me was: Don't sweat the small stuff, and everything is the small stuff. Trying to do that over the years has made me a much happier, calmer individual.

But still, having what happened to you would make you mad!
 

I am amazed at how little the folks on this board seem to know about the horse business. That 20 acres could have supported that operation and more, because "high end" horses get very little turnout. You can't afford to let a $20K animal go out and tear itself up on a fence or playing with another animal. They go out to work and train, and they know when they leave the stall that it's to work and train. They love to work because that's fun time for them- any turnout is icing on the cake, and it's relatively short and closely supervised.
Folks dealing with 80 horses aren't dealing with lawn ornaments- and their horses aren't living on pasture grass.
You don't let prize hunting dawgs free range- why would you free range high dollar horses?
 
Brian Jasper co. Ia,
Place where we board our horse has 55 horses on 10 acres in the middle of suburbia. The worst manure smell is when you're standing in the barn aisle where a horse just let go with a mess. Grazing my horse last night along the fence line bordering a stretch suburban homes on 70' wide lots with the wind blowing over the top of the storage manure pile (probably 50 cubic yds, 10' high) a few hundred feet away, I couldn't smell a thing. Granted, there are days when you get a whiff, but not nearly as bad as the NIMBYs would have you think.

As for the original topic, I agree with those that advocate a "get on with life" approach. In the USA today, the Trial Lawyers have led us to believe that every time something bad happens, somebody must pay.

Years ago, my daughter (6 yr old at the time) was pulled off of a swing by a neighbor brat in another neighbor's yard and got her wind knocked out. When I got there, I tried to explain that she only got her wind knocked out but the women in the neighborhood were hysterical and had already called 911. The ambulance came, took her off to a hospital sirens screaming for CAT scans because she said her neck was sore (ergo a backboard was used). The reason her neck was sore was because the brat jerked her by her hair off the swing! I ended up paying a few hundred out of pocket for this. Now get this, the mother of the brat who did it urged me to sue the neighbor whose house it happened at! (which I would not do)

I've also helped as a good samaritan in several situations where I've put my safety in jeopardy to help someone in need.

As for horse people being a$$h---s, yes, I know a few who are. I also know farmers, truck drivers, dog owners, cat owners, electricians who are ALSO a$$es. The point is don't make judgements on a group of people based upon your experience with a few. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt when I meet them and assume them to be decent people until they give me reason to change my opinion.
 
Now THAT's a working horse farm... townies and dirt farmers seem to confuse the realities of the horse business with an episode of Bonanza!
Some of the best horse facilities in the US are on 10 acres or less- including mine!
 
Tunnel vision?

Patient was complaining of neck pain, so they wanted to remove him with minimal manipulation. Didn't occur to them that the car the patient was sitting in hadn't been involved in the accident.
 
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