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Tractor engines in pickups

C

CWL

Member
I saw an interesting article on the web yesterday. There is a guy putting tractor engines in pickups and claiming to get 50mpg. Now I have thought about how well doing something like that would work for years. Dad has an old H Farmall and we have always marveled at how fuel efficient it is for the work it does. I’ve always been skeptical about how well the engine would work in an over the road vehicle though. I think that there are two limiting factors. One is that the engine horsepower is relatively low compared to a car engine. The other is the low engine rpm range. I think even with a 5 speed transmission the low red line of the tractor engine would pose a problem. What do you think?
 
Probably on a HP/gallon/hour ratio tractor engines aren't the best for fuel.

I did see a 70's Ford PU with a Deutz air-cooled diesel in it. I don't think they drove it on the road though.
 
Many years ago there was a shop that installed Ford 6000 engines in pickups. Think it was in Iowa someplace. I don't know the reason why the 6000 was used. Maybe bought cheap because of selectospeed failures.
 
WEEEELLL... The Cummins 5.9 is a tractor engine, designed by Consolidated Diesel, a company set up by CASE and Cummins.

Any 50 MPG Goat pickups out there?
 
I would think (depends on load of course) youre gonna need at least 150 HP and that sounds like a fairly decent sized 6 cylinder diesel. Of course a lil 4 cylinder IHC M engine would get gas mileage but isnt that true of any 50 HP engine you would throw at it?? Also if a 50 HP were installed where say a 150 HP were originally, Im not sure of the gears n transmissions and ratios PLUS the road speed of an under 1500 to 200 RPM engine where a design of 2000 to 3000 RPM was original.

Im NOT knocking a try, Im just concerned you need a larger engine at higher RPM to get a good roadworthy vehicle and once all thats done I dont see all that much, if any, MPG improvement cuz its still an internal combustion engine with all its inefficiencies

John T Electrical NOT a Mechanical Engineer so NO WARRANTY LOL
 
An engine is an engine is an engine. They've been putting tractor engines in trucks and truck engines in tractors for years, not to mention all the marine uses for the same engines. Detroits, CAT's, Cummins, etc have all had the same engines used in various OTR vehicles that were also used in equipment. That said, there are also engines that were designed and are still being designed primarily for the OTR market due to emissions standards, wanting different torque characteristics from the engine for conditions found OTR vs offroad. The differences you see in the OTR engines vs offroad engines are typically in variations of bore size vs stroke to obtain the require torque characteristics, and in the the governors and injectors to meet emmisions regulations. beyond that an engine is an engine is an engine, if it has the HP to pull the load and the proper gearing that engine isn't gonna care what kind of vehicle it's setting in....even though the vehicles suspension system might care when you replace say a 400HP big block V8 with a 6V71Detroit which is gonna weigh substantially more.
 
There is also a big difference between gasoline and diesel engines. A gasoline tractor engine in a truck would be limited by rpm, low horsepower in relation to size, etc..., but a diesel is more suited to crossing over. My uncle has an power unit that is a Perkins diesel out of a 165 MF that a man tried to run in a 1 ton dump truck but said it was to weak, so he set it up to pull a generator. I remember an article in Farm Show where a man put an Allis Chalmers diesel in a Ford pickup and claimed to have run it over 200,000 miles.
 
The Ford 6000 diesel engine was relatively light as these things go, and had about 66 hp under tractor usage conditions. That would be plenty for a half-ton unless you were towing a trailer. There was a guy around here had built one at home. He had the smoke screw turned up pretty high on it.
 
John,
This an interesting concept; think back to the 60s, Chevy II with 150 cubic inch engines, VWs, Willys. I doubt if any of these or even several combined were close to 150 hp. Aren't several makers fooling with variable displacement (8 cylinders to get you moving, then 4 or 6 at speed) ??
 
Interesting subject ,,Around here I have a 3 spd with overdrive Dodge Tranny that Came off of a Slant 6.. perhaps The Perkins Diesel 4 cyl , that is in the Massey 300 combine Could be married together some day easy enough, Combine has a lot of Good hours yet to give,, So in the mean time I am watching for a good motor ,.. J im
 
Other than those that have been used by manufacturers for the purpose of both, several factors chime in. They are heavy. They are slow turning. They are governed to modest RPM.
They do not have any where near the sophistication of Fuel injection, computer control, combustion and volumetric flow science, or metallurgy in them. They are good at torque, but not HP.
Putting a computer controlled auto engine in a tractor is also modestly unwise unless re configured to 2500rpm, and detuned some. They are not designed to produce their maxHP for continuous operation. It takes about 15hp to go 60 mph. So Truck and car engines are designed to feel comfy doing that, not making 125hp for 10 hours on a feed mill. JimN
 
I think Cadillac already has such an engine runs on 4 or 8 etc. Some of those vehicles you mentioned were small (like the 4 cylinder Jeeps) lightweight with manual transmissions NOT a full sized pickem up truck.........which Id think you would need 150 HP to haul a load???????

John T
 
One thing to remember is that the 40hp Farmall M (or any other tractor) is measured at the PTO or belt pully... as opposed to the flywheel in a comparable car engine.

I would be interested to find out how much power is lost between point A and B in a tractor.
 
In the 1980's Deutz marketed a conversion engine designed for the Ford pickup, based on their tractor AirDiesel. I have the brochure.
 
I've wondered that myself. I would assume that taking a HP reading at the PTO might actually be higher than at the flywheel. I say this because the engine is turning around 1500rpm?? and the pto is 540rpm on the older tractors. So there has to be some gain in gear reduction that would offset mechanical losses. Right??
 
The horsepower will never be higher at the pto than the flywheel. The torque will increase and the the rpm will decrease, plus there are always mechanical losses.
 
back in the 80's a deutz diesel fan tryd to put 1 in a ford pickup. wound up putting a 5 speed manuel tranny behind the automatic, just could not get enought power to the wheels with the deutz. It was far more powerful than a h or m motor.
 
I recall a farm truck with a 100 hp flathead that didn't need 150hp to haul a load. I think the GVW of that truck was around 16000 lb. Coulda hauled one of them 150hp pickups with no problem.
 
Sorry, fooling was a poor choice of wording, didn't Caddy try a similar thing back before computers were as sophisticated as they are now ?
 
Here is an address for an article about this guy. I did some looking around on the net during lunch and there is a lot of lively disscusion on this topic in some of the truck forums.

http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8391814&nav=menu91_2
 
You have to get back to the basics, don't look at the HP ratings. HP is the product of the engine speed x torque at that engine speed x conversion factor. HP is also constant through a gear train with the exception of loses to friction. Look at the torque rating and at what engine speed the max torque is.

An older Ford 300 6 cyl puts out 240 ft-lbs of torque at 2000 rpm. If you had a tractor engine at this same rating then you could do something.

Problem is you can get 2500 RPM's out of the tractor engine, the old Ford 300 6 cly is good for another couple of thousand before it red lines.

As you drive watch your tack and see how well you can drive if you can not go over 2500 RPM.
 
IHC had a V8 diesel that ran on 4 when idling and all 8 when somewhere before full load. 1468 or 1568. Engine was also used in smaller trucks.
 
I do know of a mechanic who puts Ford diesel tractor engines in pickups. Don't know how well it works. Also saw a turbocharged 354 Perkins in a '68' Chevy pickup about twenty five years ago. Sounded really neat. This was when factory diesel pickups were few and far between so this '68' was quite a big sensation. Jim
 
I have a 38 hp yanmar 4 cyl in an S-10. Turboed it and turned the fuel up a little. Gets 45 mpg and will run 70 all day Top speed is 80. used the s-10 trans, a 4 speed. runs 2700 @ 70mph. Have 8000 miles on it since I put it in. LOve it

Dave
 
Dave,
Would you e-mail me what you had to modify ? Where is the torque band on your engine, a 5 speed would drop 350-400 RPMs at 70, would this still be in the power band ?
 
I just retired from GM Powertrain, building Northstar engines for Cadillac. The Cadillac engines are not currently DoD. Back in the 1980's, we did produce a engine ( 472 or 500? ) that was called the 8 - 6 - 4. This was phased out very shortly after maybe 2 years. The electronics of the day were not up to the task. I remember hearing that the engine tended to get a sticky solenoid valve, leaving the engine in 4 cyl mode. Since this was 5,000 lb car, it had a 0 to 60 time of maybe a week. The current GM DoD engines have computer controls on everything. It really helps on milage. I was told that at highway speeds of 70 mph, the average car is only drawing about 28 hp. So the engine is generally loafing at 70. So I can see how a tractor engine could power a vehicle, but you would probably not be impressed by the performance. It might take a couple of minutes to get to 70.
 
sure it"ll climb a tree, but it"ll only go down the road at 45 mph tops, you gonna be happy with that in todays world?
 
I put a 4045T john deere engine out of a 6400 tractor in my ford ranger. It gets about 38 mpg and has plenty of power and speed with a 5 speed trans behind it.Although it is very hard on the ball joints and wheel brgs.
 
Dave,

What model of Yanmar engine did you use?

I may have seen a 4TNE84T-EG1(turbo) and a 4TNE88-G1A(natural)laying around.........they are in a generator application(set for 1800 rpm) but are good for 3000 rpm................

Thanks,

Glen
 
A few years ago when my employer sent me to Costa Rica a man came to the parts store with a half ton Dodge pickup. Underneath the hood was a 220 cubic inch Fordson Major Diesel. No 4 lane freeway there either so speed was not the prime issue. Climbing hills was.. He said cheap to operate.
 
I don't know but for years Dad has been talking about putting a V4 Wisconsin engine in a Vega car. The car has such a lightweight body that you can push it around by yourself, and the Wisconsin engine will run all day on less than 5 gallons of gas. I'm thinking the V4 engine is about 30HP.
 
Well Ford has an engine that was used in both tractors and cars.
My 722 Bobcat has a 1.6L 4cyl engine. That version was used in alot of industrial applications. Except for better quality valves that same engine with a different carb was used in the famous Pinto. My SIL had one of those.
 
Dave,

Thanks for the reply, did you build an adaptor for the transmission to flywheel housing?? Also, what about the clutch and flywheel combination??

I've seen those Yanmars take more abuse than you can shake stick at............I can't help but think they'd run forever, not to mention the great economy........


Thanks again,

Glen
 
I turned all the mass off both flywheels that i could get by with, leaving the balance holes on the yanmar. Then made a dummy crank and bolted it to the yanmar flywheel and bolted the s-10 flywheel to the dummy crank. Turned a .808 ring to fit the bell housing on the yanmar and bolted the trans to it. all in all it was pretty simple.
 
Dave,

Good idea! Out of curiousity, what was the weight increase with the two flywheels bolted together??

Also, what kind of boost does the Yanmar build(at cruising speed & at full fuel/acceleration)Did you install an intercooler??

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just very interested in your creation............

Thanks,

Glen
 
Back some time ago, Frito Lay corp had Cummins put together a kit that used the 3.9 4 cylinder turbocharged version of the 5.9 that went into the Dodge pickups. This went into step vans and replaced the Chevy 350 cid V-8. About the same torque I guess and they handled it pretty good according to some. I think a different version of that went into tractors.
 
Hey Dave, How we coming on the John Deere D? Give me a holler. I want to run a couple of tractors by you to see what you think. Maybe you can talk me out of buying them or talk me into buying them. Mitch Van Horn
 
I would take a small pickup truck and put a diesel engine out of a 430 or 530 Case in it. Those engines had no trouble getting the triple range trannys power to get down the road in max gear. Lots of torque. And extremely fuel efficent I might add
 
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