Reworking Hayfield - need advice

I would like to re-seed (timothy/orchard grass) a hayfield, but would like advice on the best way to break up the ground.
Ground is common and rolling, but no rocks. Tried a small disk last year, disked 7 times(yep!) and grass still didn't come up.
Someone told me to buy an old chisel.
Do I need a heavier disk or try a chisel? I grew up farming, but we never had a chisel (had a heavy disk chisel, and tines or chisels on a finisher, but never a spring tooth chisel.)
Would a chisel allow some of the clover to stay/vs a disk?
Have tried drilling, but that doesn't work for me.
THanks..

How are you putting the seed down? If you're disking it in, it's too deep. Small seeds like to be shallow... like 1/4". Timothy can reseed itself... right on top of the ground. Some people use a broadcast seeder just as the snow is melting, and let the movement of the ground from the frost work the seeds into the soil, or they simply germinate on top, since there isn't any competition that early.

just borrow a no till drill and inter seed with clover orchard grass. just dont plant alfalfa into alfalfa as it will not grow. I do this all the time and never had any problems as long as you have moisture in the soil.

IMHO, the best way to break the ground is to spray it a couple times with Roundup and disc it as soon as the vegetation is dead. Then sow the seed and cultipack.

I'd vote for drilling it in notil. Most notil failures (and conventional seeding failures) are seed placement. Seed has got to be shallow. If renting aa drill around here its usually a Tye or a Haybusster. On the Tyes, seems no one ever resets the front coulters and they run too deep. Last time I rented one took me 6 hrs to get them set, every one took heat and a cheater bar. On the Haybuster you have to set the cylinder float collars.

With that said, if you really want to go conventional, see about getting a Brillon seeder.

Last year was a terrible year to try and establish anything around here. Ground was too dry until it was too late in the fall for plants to really get their roots under them.

We always reseed clover on a frost and have good luck that way. Seeding grass for me means disking sowing and then running over it with a packer. By the responses I'm getting, no one is recomending a harrow/spring-type chisel? Is that the consenus?
My dad has tried drilling with absolutely no luck, but may not have set the depth right and may have only tried it a few times.
Looks like that may be the only option this year as the disk tractor is losing a bunch of hydraulic fluid and the other tractors are too big for the disc (6').
In the dictionary under "breakdown" it should say - "see farming"!
THanks for the replies.

I've had some luck with using a chisel plow for pasture renovation (seeding Trefoil). Chisel plow North to South, then come back and chisel East West. Then disk it twice and seeded with a Brillion cultipack seeder. This method does not kill all of the existing grass/clover/weeds, it just gives you a chance to get something else growing up in there. Also, you can't do this in the Spring since weeds will outgrow just about anything except Ryegrass. It has worked OK for me in August though. If you want a clean slate, you pretty much have to moldboard plow or burn down with herbicide.

Our county soil conservation office has a no till drill available for loan just for this sort of event. Unfortunately it requires more power than I have available, or I would borrow it to redo our hayfield.

Turn it with a bottom plow, disk it, and drill or broadcast, pack. Bottom plows still do a good job, just don't overuse.

If you can get a haybuster drill set right and get it no tilled in this fall, it would be by far cheaper. The county NRCS here rents 107's for (I think) $6/acre. Even if you are wanting to start fresh and not interseed, a pass with round up and then the drill would still be alot cheaper than turn'n or chisel'n it then disk'n it a few times, sow'n it, and harrow'n it in.

If you are going to work it up, the best luck I have had with get'n grass to come up behind tobacco is disk it up best I can, sow, and go over it with a cultimulcher with the shoes set where they just scratch the soil top.

Good luck.

Dave

Wev'e always had better luck in the fall with renovating pastures. It's easiest to spray then no-till. We do all our pasture work/fall planting near Labor Day.
The others are right-you have to set the depth right on the drill. Also, sometimes it's better to drill the hardier stuff in the fall, then broadcast clover over it in the early spring.
We like to mix some winter wheat with our planting because it grows well in the fall and seems to sort of "insulate" other tender plant types. The wheat makes good early browse, and will not stick around later to interfere with your intended plants.
We've actually drilled wheat directly into all of our established pastures in the fall. It grows well, makes good deer browse for hunting, and makes good early browse for the cows. Also wheat is relatively inexpensive.
If you plan to completely work the ground before replanting, I'd spray the field first, then get a good heavy disk and go to town on it. Moldboard plowing is good but creates a ton of extra work. I'm sure you know how bad you get beat up disking after rolling the ground. If you have a good disk and really go over it (without plowing), then all you'll have left is harrow (or cultipack) and plant.