Just a general question.....I think everybody acknowledges that the old Ford"s are notorious for bad brakes...mainly because oil seeps onto the shoes....but what other makes and models also suffer from poor brakes? My old Allis CA was a brake nightmare and so was an early 80"s JD 1050 I had.
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
Fordfarmer
Well-known Member
Grandpa's Super H Farmall... he just gave up trying to get them to work.
THEkyroastnear
Member
most of the farmalls with disc brakes
Gene Davis(Ga.)
Member
- Location
- Middle Georgia.
The H John Deere always had oily brake shoes and poor stopping power.
My Super M would lock up and I would have to back up to release the brakes, especially the left wheel brake. Obviously, this presents a dangerous situation, especially if you're on a hillside or anywhere else where you want absolute control of motion and need definite braking. The disc brakes on those have an arrangement which is like ball bearings which move in grooves to actuate the discs. If those get rusty they'll seize up and can't work properly and they'll lock up. A tractor that sets outside for an extended length of time will tend to develop this problem due to rain or melted snow seeping in or condensate accumulating due to changing temps. I ordered a brake actuator assembly here on YT and put it in, adjusted the brakes according to the IH manual and they work perfectly now.
Pat
Pat
cadet trooper
Well-known Member
I agree with Pat H and any other tractor that has that ball and socket arrangement.
sammy the RED
Well-known Member
The brakes on my Super M-TA does the same thing.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
SC Case. Generally bad in any direction. B Farmall- good at stopping you going forward but worthless when going backward. Jim
That reminds me of another old tractor I had years ago....a "59 JD 430. The left wheel would lock up and slide and I"d have to back up to knock it loose.
That tractor was absolutely the biggest POS I ever owned and I have had more green ones than any other make. The day it went Pop-Pop-Pop down the road with its new owner was one of the happiest I ever had...hehehe!
In truthfulness, I have never been overjoyed with any old tractor....regardless of make, that I have ever owned. I started out on a "46 Oliver RC 60 many moons ago...so long ago, I can"t remember it"s shortcomings....probably just as well. I do recall that JD #5 sickle mower we pulled with it...that combination was just one step ahead of a team of horses and a McCormick mower...and some would say a step backwards. I"m rambling now..best hush up.
That tractor was absolutely the biggest POS I ever owned and I have had more green ones than any other make. The day it went Pop-Pop-Pop down the road with its new owner was one of the happiest I ever had...hehehe!
In truthfulness, I have never been overjoyed with any old tractor....regardless of make, that I have ever owned. I started out on a "46 Oliver RC 60 many moons ago...so long ago, I can"t remember it"s shortcomings....probably just as well. I do recall that JD #5 sickle mower we pulled with it...that combination was just one step ahead of a team of horses and a McCormick mower...and some would say a step backwards. I"m rambling now..best hush up.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Well, this is going back more years than most of you have been around, but the Fordson Model F didn't have any brakes at all when it was first introduced. OK for prairie farmers, but less-than-optimum for anyone with crops or pastures on hillsides...
Apparently bowing to customer demand, Ford began putting a primitive bronze-disc brake in the transmission starting in 1923 -- it was a little better than nothing, in that (if properly adjusted) it would stop the tractor within a couple of dozen feet on a level surface. (The manual instructed owners to set the adjuster to "the thickness of a thin dime"... After all, who needs feeler gauges!)
Folks talk about the good ol' days all the time, but there are some things that are best left in the past; give me modern hydraulic disc brakes any day!
-- Geo. D.
Apparently bowing to customer demand, Ford began putting a primitive bronze-disc brake in the transmission starting in 1923 -- it was a little better than nothing, in that (if properly adjusted) it would stop the tractor within a couple of dozen feet on a level surface. (The manual instructed owners to set the adjuster to "the thickness of a thin dime"... After all, who needs feeler gauges!)
Folks talk about the good ol' days all the time, but there are some things that are best left in the past; give me modern hydraulic disc brakes any day!
-- Geo. D.
HENRY E NC
Member
Dont really try to stop a Farmall letter series going down hill with anything on behind.Better get into a lower gear before you get there, Don't ask me how I know about this. Henry
rednekelmo
Member
well it's a little newer than most others mentiones but I never was impressed with the brakes on any series II or III steiger. you talk about a whole lot of tractor with a little bit of break
There's a difference between tractors with brakes that DEVELOP problems and then don't work well until fixed . . . as compared to tractors with brakes that never worked - even when new.
I've worked at several tractor dealerships since the 1960s and have never come across a wheel tractor with worse brakes the the John Deere 1010 and 2010 series. They didn't work when brand new - and there's no practical way to fix them without re-engineering.
As to your comments about Fords and bad brakes? I've never heard that nor have I experienced it. I've got several old Fords - an 8N, a 641, and a 4000 and all work fine. They have conventional automotive expanding-shoe brakes and when kept in good order - work very well for non-power.
I've worked at several tractor dealerships since the 1960s and have never come across a wheel tractor with worse brakes the the John Deere 1010 and 2010 series. They didn't work when brand new - and there's no practical way to fix them without re-engineering.
As to your comments about Fords and bad brakes? I've never heard that nor have I experienced it. I've got several old Fords - an 8N, a 641, and a 4000 and all work fine. They have conventional automotive expanding-shoe brakes and when kept in good order - work very well for non-power.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
On the hundred series fords, the axle seal can fail and let oil into the brakes, but besides brake pads that are worn, or incorrectly adjusted, the only other problem is when the actuating cam on the end of the shaft that comes through the backing plate and is what expands the pads, it gets worn from use, the wear on those ends is from metal against metal, have to carefully build em up with weld and re-shape so that the pedal is stiff, too much and you can't get the drum back on.
I rebuilt the brakes on my 850, with the hills around here you have no choice, however, they're so good they easily lock up when in the field, and most times you'll slide, using too low of a gear does the same thing, not a major project if those axle seals are good, they can be hard to get out and replaced, just more work to do.
I never liked the old equipment, brakes no good mentality, especially where in many cases they're easily repaired, used to see a lot of that with heavy equipment, like older pay loaders and scrapers, well those you can just use the bowl, can recall one time where on a case W series loader, the system just needed fluid and the air bled out of them, nice to have when the machine is getting a lot of use, also a safety concern
I rebuilt the brakes on my 850, with the hills around here you have no choice, however, they're so good they easily lock up when in the field, and most times you'll slide, using too low of a gear does the same thing, not a major project if those axle seals are good, they can be hard to get out and replaced, just more work to do.
I never liked the old equipment, brakes no good mentality, especially where in many cases they're easily repaired, used to see a lot of that with heavy equipment, like older pay loaders and scrapers, well those you can just use the bowl, can recall one time where on a case W series loader, the system just needed fluid and the air bled out of them, nice to have when the machine is getting a lot of use, also a safety concern
The Dukester
Well-known Member
Yeah, my Super M's brakes did that to me...once when I was slowing to turn on the road with a big load behind it. It was a scary moment...right wheel sliding, load shoving the tractor and getting sideways, patches of hard snow on the road. Finally got around the corner sort of okay and stopped, kicked the brake pedal again and the brake released. I took the brakes apart that same day , cleaned everything up and lubed the ball ramps with anti-seize, never had any trouble after that.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
The IH and Case/IH x84 and x85 series of tractors, no warning light for the parking brake so every one over a few hours old had no parking brake left on it.
Its a bugger of a job to strip them down to change it too.
Its a bugger of a job to strip them down to change it too.
If you enjoy replacing axle seals on a fairly regular basis, you can keep brakes on an N series or 600 series. Then again, that left turning brake soon gets glazed from constant use.
I think some of you fellers just enjoy working on old tractors and never had your a$$ glued to the seat of one day in and day out trying to make a living on a hard scrabble farm.
Working on a tractor wasn"t fun and games in preparation of mowing the lawn or an upcoming parade. The farm tractor was a daily working tool and after you had fixed something 3 times, you usually said to hell with it after that. Being so lightweight and impossible to keep brakes are the very reason we never had a Ford tractor on our place years ago. Run an old Ford down in a ditch mowing or on a steep bank and see how long your automotive brake shoes last. Those axle seals will invariably leak and then your brakes are shot. I was raised here in eastern Kentucky which has always been small tobacco farm country. I have seen and been around hundreds and hundreds of smaller farm tractors in the 25-60 horse class of every color and description. Most all of them had reliable engines.......precious few had decent brakes.
The vast majority of folks in attendance here, don"t "farm" with these old machines nowadays...they play with them. Nothing wrong with that, but there"s a world of difference in a toy or amusement, than a daily worker. I have one old tractor left on the place.....a "52 Super A, and it does nothing but cultivate the garden. It does a fine job for that.....beyond that, it"s useless as teats on a boar hog. Brakes need fixing too.
I think some of you fellers just enjoy working on old tractors and never had your a$$ glued to the seat of one day in and day out trying to make a living on a hard scrabble farm.
Working on a tractor wasn"t fun and games in preparation of mowing the lawn or an upcoming parade. The farm tractor was a daily working tool and after you had fixed something 3 times, you usually said to hell with it after that. Being so lightweight and impossible to keep brakes are the very reason we never had a Ford tractor on our place years ago. Run an old Ford down in a ditch mowing or on a steep bank and see how long your automotive brake shoes last. Those axle seals will invariably leak and then your brakes are shot. I was raised here in eastern Kentucky which has always been small tobacco farm country. I have seen and been around hundreds and hundreds of smaller farm tractors in the 25-60 horse class of every color and description. Most all of them had reliable engines.......precious few had decent brakes.
The vast majority of folks in attendance here, don"t "farm" with these old machines nowadays...they play with them. Nothing wrong with that, but there"s a world of difference in a toy or amusement, than a daily worker. I have one old tractor left on the place.....a "52 Super A, and it does nothing but cultivate the garden. It does a fine job for that.....beyond that, it"s useless as teats on a boar hog. Brakes need fixing too.
As to your comment . . .
"I think some of you fellers just enjoy working on old tractors and never had your a$$ glued to the seat of one day in and day out trying to make a living on a hard scrabble farm. "
I've lived and worked around "hard scrabble" farms for over 40 years - including winters when it gets down to 30 F below. And soil is all hard-pan and gives any tractor a workout when spring or fall plowing. From what I've experienced, first-hand, with small scale farms and steep land with short growing seasons . . .
the people that used (and still use) older equipment and keep it in good shape have faired a lot better then those using mostly new equipment. That mainly because the latter are usually hopelessly in dept.
One good friend of mine who retired from dairy farming 5 years ago - was one of the top producers in this area, paid cash for everything - and was then - and is now - doing very well. His farm was once a Deere dealership - which used to be common. All his tractors except one were dealership leftovers from the 1950s. A 420, two 530s, and a 620. He also used - for his "big" tractor a Deere 2520. Besides that he kept a Ford 4000 backhoe-loader around that he bought used in 1965 (I have it now). He also had a Deere 4420 combine. He outfarmed - and out-profited all the other farmers in this area - and also made enough to take off for a few weeks every year to Florida. I did much of his repair work for 30 years - and know, first-hand how he did things, how his equipment held up, etc. And, by the way - as I said - I now own his old Ford 4000 backhoe-loader. It's basically just a glorified 800 series tractor with a Sherman aux and attachments. That tractor has done an incredible amount of work over the years and has had one set of brakes put into it ever. Right now - they are squeaking on one side - which is the least of my worries.
The second largest farm that still exists in my area (since most went broke and quit) is another personal friend who took over the farm from his parents over 25 years ago. He has two Deere Bs (for raking hay), a 520, a 2510, a 4030, and a 4520. He does all his own repairs, builds his own farm buildings, etc. Also has a Ford 4000 backhoe along with a Ford 545 hoe and a Deere 350 crawler/dozer. Zero debt and he does very well at dairy farming. Better then most - except for the Amish around here.
I'll also add that I've worked for three Deere dealerships since the 1960s - all focused in areas with small family farms. I presently own two small farms and sell produce and maple syrup. I don't rely on it for all my income - but it goes pretty well. I don't own a single piece of equipment newer than 1972 - and for on-the-road trucks - my newest is a 1994. I can fix all the stuff myself, parts are easy to get - and I don't own anyone a dime. Works good for me.
One more note - I've never been, nor will I ever be a Ford fan. But, that being said - with most - their brakes are worlds better than any 1010 or 2010 Deere ever made - and that's where my comments began.
"I think some of you fellers just enjoy working on old tractors and never had your a$$ glued to the seat of one day in and day out trying to make a living on a hard scrabble farm. "
I've lived and worked around "hard scrabble" farms for over 40 years - including winters when it gets down to 30 F below. And soil is all hard-pan and gives any tractor a workout when spring or fall plowing. From what I've experienced, first-hand, with small scale farms and steep land with short growing seasons . . .
the people that used (and still use) older equipment and keep it in good shape have faired a lot better then those using mostly new equipment. That mainly because the latter are usually hopelessly in dept.
One good friend of mine who retired from dairy farming 5 years ago - was one of the top producers in this area, paid cash for everything - and was then - and is now - doing very well. His farm was once a Deere dealership - which used to be common. All his tractors except one were dealership leftovers from the 1950s. A 420, two 530s, and a 620. He also used - for his "big" tractor a Deere 2520. Besides that he kept a Ford 4000 backhoe-loader around that he bought used in 1965 (I have it now). He also had a Deere 4420 combine. He outfarmed - and out-profited all the other farmers in this area - and also made enough to take off for a few weeks every year to Florida. I did much of his repair work for 30 years - and know, first-hand how he did things, how his equipment held up, etc. And, by the way - as I said - I now own his old Ford 4000 backhoe-loader. It's basically just a glorified 800 series tractor with a Sherman aux and attachments. That tractor has done an incredible amount of work over the years and has had one set of brakes put into it ever. Right now - they are squeaking on one side - which is the least of my worries.
The second largest farm that still exists in my area (since most went broke and quit) is another personal friend who took over the farm from his parents over 25 years ago. He has two Deere Bs (for raking hay), a 520, a 2510, a 4030, and a 4520. He does all his own repairs, builds his own farm buildings, etc. Also has a Ford 4000 backhoe along with a Ford 545 hoe and a Deere 350 crawler/dozer. Zero debt and he does very well at dairy farming. Better then most - except for the Amish around here.
I'll also add that I've worked for three Deere dealerships since the 1960s - all focused in areas with small family farms. I presently own two small farms and sell produce and maple syrup. I don't rely on it for all my income - but it goes pretty well. I don't own a single piece of equipment newer than 1972 - and for on-the-road trucks - my newest is a 1994. I can fix all the stuff myself, parts are easy to get - and I don't own anyone a dime. Works good for me.
One more note - I've never been, nor will I ever be a Ford fan. But, that being said - with most - their brakes are worlds better than any 1010 or 2010 Deere ever made - and that's where my comments began.
We had a 1175 Case that had horrible brakes. One time in the winter we were pulling out of our drive-way and the tractor wouldn't stop and almost drove a milk truck into a snow-bank. The 1175 also had problems with the steering. Air would would get compressed in the ball at the end of the steering rod ,and once that got filled up with air and you went to turn to the right the tractor would lunge to the left. It would do the same when you would turn to the left.
495man
Well-known Member
No warning light?
Have had 385 and 485 in the past, both had a parking brake light plus TWO flashing lights in the dash, so three orange lights on at once the second the parking brake came on.
Our 495 only had a single flashing light (newer dash style than 84/85 series), flasher went so I wired it to be solid light and added a buzzer.
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