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O.T. Power Company Tree Clearing, Trimming etc.

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Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I'm wondering how it's done in your neck of the woods and if the property owners rights are superceded by public utilities if your land is adjacent to or close proximity to the utility owners land. I know a lot of these easements, right of way's and outright utility owned properties cross many peoples lands, so at some point they need to trim and cut trees.

I've often wondered how far they can go onto a persons property to take a tree down that if was to fall in a storm would hit the utility line. Understanding this may vary by location quite a bit, as well as having all kinds of stipulations included in deeds and property type documents, but in general there must be some of this that is "boiler plate" no matter where you are.

The power company took a pair of nice young 12"-14" healthy maples down yesterday while I was at work, without any prior notification, with the exception of sending a letter about trimming in the utility bill, nothing about removal, this letter I never saw, but was told about later, so who knows what it really said. The location of one was near a pole with a transformer, at a corner of our property, along the town road I live on, but was just off the towns eminent domain from center of road, the other one was further away from the utility lines, that one I don't agree with taking, but also understand same tree hugger mentality LOL !!! would be the first to complain when it knocks your power out :) so ok on that, and most similar situations, but it does make you take notice when they do this.

In one respect they cleared next to an old property corner monument, we have a surveyor due to come in to re-establish property lines, the neighbors have been taking advantage of our old farmstead area, dumping their lawn and yard waste over the fence, time to rattle their cages, another tree near another corner monument, a maple 2/3 split off it so that area is clear, I guess the surveyor will be happy at least !
 
I suspect your right when you state it probably varies region by region as to what they can do. Here in Missouri, if you want electricity you have to give the utility company an easement. If they want to run across your property and its not your choice, I believe they have to purchase an easment from you. The utility can cut or spray anything on that easement at any time they choose. I have 1/4 mile of road frontage with utility lines and they just cut and cleared the whole thing (60 foot wide) and made a nice clear cut. I tried to get them to leave their equipment overnight since I would like to do some other trimming as well but they wouldn't go for it.

Rocky in MO
 
You know I actually was able to get permission to use contractors equipment from 2 outfits that were here for another unrelated job, on the weekends, most was rented anyway, they did a big upgrade on the 175'-0" swath they own through our place, I was very fortunate on that, but I asked first which is the right thing to do, the foreman probably went out on a limb, and would not acknowledge this permission if asked by anyone, but did give his business card in case anyone asked, I was pushing off fill that came out of the big hole they drilled, he saw I was an experienced operator, even asked if I was looking for work. I fueled and greased the equipment like it was mine, and did nothing risky either. This was an oddity, as you're really not likely to get permission due to the potential risk and some people will tell others they are operators with golden hands, and have never set foot in a machine before.
 
I know in florida, the power co. came on my land to trim trees 'around' a power line. The coridore they trimmed was no where near the lines.. but they did it.. with my protest.. etc..

soundguy
 
I think they have 30 ft` no either side of the line center at least in my area that is what I was told when they put my line in. my problem is they just left the trimmings and ran over them with a bush hog when they made their last rounds. I usually take care of it myself bush hogging and stuff but the high stuff I can't get to and they left it laying on the county right of way I usually cut in with my mower now I got to clean all that up before I cut all of the grass.
 
You know, as much as I love open fields, I also love just a few trees dotted around it for the sake of shade and something different.

"Nuff said.
 
Power company out here tried to cut down a tree that has been declared a state historical landmark- some kind of Northern Pine that was brought down by a Yankee soilder and planted during the civil war. Should have seen the State vs Power guys going at it!
In the end, they merely butchered the bottom branches
 
Yes, it breaks up the landscape, years back, even the early 70's, looking at old photos here, the land and fields were certainly more open, hedgerows much thinner etc., now you have fields that are almost hidden, surrounded by thick hedgerows, all for that too, but the fields perimeters have been reduced, lot of em need to be trimmed back, no one does that anymore it seems. Way back maybe turn of the 19th century, to the 40's the landscape was clear everywhere, and was farmed, it's amazing, if it were flat it would look like the plains out west, lot of areas have grown back into forest even if small, those unused areas that were once kept clear are now young forest areas.
 
They have no rights whatsover - unless they have a deeded easement - when it comes to property they do not own. It's that simple. And, even with a written easement - the wood is yours - they can' take it away if you want it.

I don't know if you have NYSEG (soon to be owned by a company in Spain) or National Grid - former Niagra Mohawk and now owned by a company in England. They both will bully people and usually get away with it. I've had them thrown off my land by State Police and also chained their crawler to a tree once - and would not let them get it back until they paid me damages.

It goes like this. They aren't going to install power-lines anywhere UNLESS they've secrued some sort of permanent easement - or purchased the property. So, if they have lines - they have permission - somewhere. And that permission depends exactly on what is written in the agreement. The varies - since some property owners agree to anything - and other's are more careful.

I've got eight different rural properties in New York - in Hamilton, Jefferson, and Otsego Counties. Every one of has power lines - along the road and interior. Keep in mind - that few towns own roads either. So, if a power line runs down the road - on your side - you probably own the property the lines are on.

I have a few lines through my fields - and the ROW reads - they have the right to maintain the lines and cut trees - when necessary. "Necessary to be determined by them - but - I must be asked first if available. All brush must be removed. Any interence in crop production - and I get compensated.

I have several more - and they are all different. If you want to know about your own - read the written agreement. The Power Company usually does NOT file these with public records. They store in their own files - and whatever person owned the property at the time the agreement was made had a copy. So - for you to search - you have to find out what year the power lines were put in - then track County deed records and find out the name of the property owners then. Then, call the power-company - and give them that name - since the easements are filed alphabetically by property owner AT the time the agreement was written.

Or - make them produce the easement when they try to enter your property. It is their responsibility to prove their right to enter your land - and not the converse. If they refuse - call the State Police for trespassing. Then, they'll produce the records very fast.
 
A group of people raised cane with power company trimming trees. Got news people out, city involved and they won, power company left them alone. We had a big wind storm and limbs blew down knocking power out to some of the complainers. Guess who hollered first and loudest. Guess who was last to get power restored. The funny thing the trees weren't even on their property. They were in front of their house but on city property.
 

They wanted to cut the pines along 600ft. of the power line that feeds my house. Said they were told not to haul the logs away (they cut them down in about 4 ft sections). Since I didn't want to clean up after them, and can't use pine in the fireplace, I said no and they left. At least they asked first. If I loose power due to a fallen tree I'll be the first to complain. Such is life.
 
See, that'll get you everytime. The thing is, trees do have to come down sometimes, those maples do tend to break more easily than the black cherry often found in hedgerows and property lines, so knowing that, I can understand clearing near lines, because of the potential damage and risk from downed lines, including risk to linemen doing repairs.

However, when someone does this work, it does need to be done in a professional manner and I have seen where they have taken trees down that I would consider excessive, and not a danger, it's when they go to that extreme or further that concerns me most, these were both in close proximity so hard to argue that. Our road has a nice maintained hedge row along it, with some nice trees, so there is now a hole in it, but I think the hazard takes precedence over aesthetics here.
 
A few years back the local power company came knocking with the desire to trim some trees out of the power lines. What they described was going to butcher the tree to the point of almost being bare on one side. They could have cut the entire thing in a bucket truck, but it didn't extend over my property line. I provided written permission to take it all the way down AND grind the stump to the homeowners expectation. All wood needed to be in less than 4 foot lengths and stacked in my west yard. I also put in the clause that all work needed to be complete in 14 days or the written permission would be void and the power company (NIPSCO) would be invoiced for outside labor to cleanup what was left.
I never had a problem and it was all done in 3 days. Buddy of mine came over and loaded the wood. Now I have oak trees growing where the maples were.
 
We have national grid, now sometime in the 50's the subdvision was designed and my old neighbor built the first house on the new road deeded to the town. So at that time the power lines were installed, but I suspect that this particular pole is borderline on the eminent domain area from center of road beyond the pavement, the town does have rights to that I believe for snow removal etc. the setback of a home or building is also referenced from this or center of road to include that dimension in the setback, funny it conflicts with the U.S. Post office mail box location specifications, as the towns specifications state any obstruction is in violation. When you look at the layout though, we own that extra area, but it must be with stipulations, as they only own 50'-0" of road, 25'-0" from center line each side. The power lines are within that eminent domain area beyond the pavement.

Yeah, I remember your experiences in regards to dealing with them on the right of ways and easements, thankfully I averted that here during that job they did and had friendly dealings with them, they were outwardly nice and generous, that may have been influenced by previous bad situations like yours. I mentioned my concern about the 115,000 volt lines being low, and although I believe they checked into it, and I'm still here after crossing under there for so many years, one of NIGRID's people that came in from Syracuse that deals with these property owner issues, told one of her subordinates to get a Sagometer ha ha ha, she thought I bought into that I think, I never said anything, but was going to ask if they also have board stretchers, particularly red ones, not blue as they're metric, we want SAE which are RED !

By right I should have taught her a few things by responding with some typical sarcasm or slightly scathing remarks as is common for me to do when in the mood, ha ha ha.... Sagometer or Sag-O-Meter??? LOL !!! they do think your stupid don't they sometimes ?
 
We have a Co-op here and as such we own part of the company and have votes to clear out anyone that gives us trouble. It makes for a nice setup between us and the power company they are real nice about anything they do on your property.
I call them every once in a while to clear the limbs around my power line coming into the house, they are alway very nice even do more than they are required just because they are there and you want a limb or two extra cut for safety or looks.
I have three lines on the property that cross it they have right of ways but will not come on your land unless its an emergany or they get permission first.
A while back a tree on my neighbors property was almost on the power line after a strong wind they came when I called but wanted to know if I had the authority to Ok it. I said the owner was gone and I had the right to give them permission to cut it down. It would have knocked out power all around us as it was a main line.
I really like our Co-Op they are all real nice people to deal with.
When I bought the house I hooked up my 220 table saw to the 200 amp service that the last owner had put in. When I turned it on the lights went out and the saw took several seconds to start.
So I called them and they looked up the house on their computer and said that it had a very old and small transformer, they were out the next day to replace it.
Walt
 
Billy NY,
This is a hot topic here in Michigan
( see http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008806010659)

ITC (owns the primary transmission lines here) says that the state is pressing for fewer power outages and the primary culprit is storm damage caused by falling treees. Local utilities are also aggressively trimming/harvesting trees on individual customer aerial feeds.

We live in a 1000 home sub with underground utilities but the main power feeds from the sub-station are aerial. We still get an occasional outage from a lightning strike that hits a pole-mounted switch or a sub-station. Best way to prevent power outages is to buy a generator. Pretty much guaranteed you won't have one after you spend money on a backup plan. LOL
 
Connecticut they need the landowner's permission.

They'll ask for it even if the trees are technically on town/state deeded roadway -- if you deny it, they could always measure afterwards and decide your permission wasn't needed ;)

If you refuse, IIRC the utility can appeal to the town's Tree Warden. Yes, we have people called Tree Wardens. They're responsible for protecting "shade trees" but also removing dangerous trees from along the roads.

Usually I don't see a big hassle either way. You do see the occassional hack job that makes you cringe and wonder why they didn't just take the whole thing down.

Gave 'em permission a few weeks back for my place -- I have 600' of frontage on two roads. I'm not worried about the roads since there's nothing particularly scenic on either.

They will be trimming on my property, too -- my transformer is on a pole 200' in from the road. Actually real happy to see that -- I have a couple Ash trees with ash yellowing that ain't looking so hot, plus a maple near the lines there. I work from home mostly, so when they're here, I'm going to see how much I can convince them to drop the whole trees. I can cut 'em up for firewood, and it'll give my garden more late afternoon sunlight.
 
Sure makes it a lot easier when people work together. The crew on the forestry service, Asplundh, that came through here was about as nice a crew you could have on your property, when they did the restoration and finishing touches, I spent the day working with them at our place. It helps quite a bit to make friends with these people whenever possible.
 
Here in Illinois the power company can trim trees that are within 40 feet of the powerlines. Pine trees can be 20 feet from the powerlines.

Our power company is great, they came around and asked about trimming trees, my wife took them around the property and showed them what to do. They totally removed 6 trees that were under the powerlines and did a nice job trimming a dozen others. They cleaned up the whole mess and hauled it away. If we had called a tree service it would have cost over $2000.

I agree with the guys that said the people who complain about the tree trimming/cutting have nothing to complain about when those trees knock out the power. If they are cold and hungry for a little while their attitude will change.
 
That's a wild one, but some of those kinds of landmarks are worth protecting when possible. The thing that is amazing about trees is how long it takes for them to mature, and how fast a chain saw can change that, big fan of thinning, selectively clearing and trimming with some careful thought first, especially seeing how nice things can look if you just take the time to think it out first, clear cutting only makes sense if you are putting land back into crops, putting up a building or really have to change the landscape for similar purposes.
 
Don't get me wrong - I'm not anti-power company or anti-Town government. I am, however - anti-being-jerked-around.

A few things to think about. First - I think you've got the meaning of "emminent domain" confused. It means one thing - and one thing only. It is a transfer of land against the owner's wishes - supposedly for the "common good." It is a legal procedure - in court - and once done - the ownership of the property is transferred and deeded. So - there is no "implied" emminent domain by the town - or anyone else. With public roads in New York - 99% of the time the town owns none of them. If you live by the side of the road - you probably own to the center of that road. If you own land on both sides of that road - then you own ALL the road. The town simply has a "right of way" OVER your land. The issues of what rights the town has - to right of way on the sides of the road ar complicated. Keep in mind that very often the town highway supervisor does NOT know the law, nor does the town attorney. Many roads in rural parts of New York became roads by "easement by prescription." These types of roads do NOT grant the town any right to do anything but maintain the existing road-bed that is actually driven on. But, they do what they want anyway and often claim a "right" to clear on the sides - which they legally do not have. It usually goes unchallenged - and once done - if seven years goes by - they then HAVE the right. So, they can widen a bit each year - with tree trimming, road plowing or grading, etc. And, as time goes by - they have it legally since nobody asks questions. I did, and I un-did some work here and put the road back where it was before.

One catch to all that is - they can just proceed to quick-take Emminent Domain and take what they need. But, it's not a simple 10 minute process. It cost money, time, and public input. My town has tried to take my land twice - and so far, they failed both times.
 
Not me. I've got solar electric and don't care what happens to the many lines coming through my land - as long as they don't land on my head.

That being said - I don't want other people to suffer. But - the representatives of the power company do indeed try to bully people at times and do what's best for their own profit-margin and NOT what's good for individual people. If you tend not to question such things - you're being a bit foolish (in my opinion).

I've seen all this from various perspectives. I used to work for Public Service Electric and Gas - as a lineman, I worked as a crew-foreman for Asplundh Tree Expert Company doing line-clearance for two power companies - and now -see all as a landowner sometimes getting abused by the power company.

If you think they are there to look out for you - and not themselves first - you're in for a rude awakening. Especially since so many are foreign-owned now.
 
Agree on that one, the stipulations they have on the road, is most likely contained within the deed or whatever was done to make it their responsibility to maintain which I would have to review to determine what the facts are, presently no issues on that. It appears similar to eminent domain as they do have some kind of rights beyond the pavement, I will have to get the documents and see. The town had some people that could not read prints for many years, thankfully that kind of ignorance is gone, the long time building inspector who is now deceased was the most ignorant and bullying of them all, he went down in scandal, shortly after became terminally ill and not one resident here misses this guy that is for sure.

This was one giant hayfield at one time, they sectioned off small lots and put a road in, first house was built about 2 years prior to our ownership, all have extra lots to each side, if all were houses, it would have been a cluster..ck., glad that is not the case, my house sits on 3 lots. We own all the remaining lots on our side and where the road is to be continued, so I have to get into this with the town if any are sold.
 
My experience with tree trimming rights (CA 50s, 60s, OR 70s-90's):
(1) esmts thru private land, serving other parties: whatever trimming or danger tree rights etc are set out in the recorded document or agreed between the parties (ie, the landowner and the Power Co);
(2) trimming along lines from a public road just serving the owner of a parcel we never got involved in (generally didn't require a written, recorded esmt document), so can't comment;
(3) cities, counties grant "blanket" esmts to utilities for use of all public road areas, but have no authority to grant Power etc Co's any rights to/on lands beyond public R/W (which may well be much wider than it appears).
(4) I've seen lots of road area deeds (fee taking) with adjacent land rights, usually for slopes of cuts or fills, for drainage, etc, but don't recall any with trimming rights, but some could well include them.
Out here Power Cos were very good at recording written esmts; can't recall a single one coming up, that they hadn't recorded, at least in Santa Cruz County CA, Multnomah and Clackamas Counties OR. But uses differ widely around the country.
 
I fight them here in Ohio. We have about 1500 feet of line on our property and at first it seemed like they felt they could come and go as they please. I put a stop to that. They came by last year and I gave them permission to cut some stuf down, provided they haul al of the bush away ad grind the stumps. What they left was a huge mess that I'm still cleaning up, lots of brush to deal with, stumps 4' high. Some of the firewood is 4 feet long, some is 8 inches long. They want to come back this year, I told them to finish last year's job, then we'll talk. But they are not welcome back this year.
 
They are definitely motivated by numbers, Niagara Mohawk, now National Grid, is a prime example of how things change drastically from an aquisition, re-structured, less in house people compared to what was, and it certainly is motivated by the bottom line for profit. They lose a lot of money when lines go down, especially ones like the 115,000 and 30,000 volt ones that pass through here.
 
It varies from place to place.

A fellow that worked for me lived in-town out east of Cleveland. Our power company out there was the one that triggered the big blackout on August 14, 2003, so they suddenly got real religious about cleanin' up their rights-of-way and easements.

They came through his place the next spring and butchered a line of ornamental trees (read "small" -- they'd never grow big enough to bother the lines, and they certainly didn't when this crew came through). Contractors, they were, and seemed to want to cut anything within the easement, whether it needed it or not. Just butchered 'em. If the trees had eight layers of branches, they just took a chain saw and cut the top four or five right off, straight across the trunk.

They messed with the wrong guy. When it was all done, the contractors came back and dug out the trees they whapped and put in a new line of trees. His had grown to bigger than you can buy, but he didn't settle for young trees. They had to pay for the biggest ones they could find, that would still take five years or mor to grow to the size of the ones they hacked up.

So they did that and left. He fought some more, and they ended up payin' yet another contractor to come back and fix the nasty ruts (I saw 'em, they were ugly) they made thorugh is yard with the equipment and trucks they ran in to replace the trees.

Dunno if he had a law on his side workin' in his favor or not. It may just have been his persistence that got him the satisfaction.
 
With most town roads in New York - nothing is deeded except for very recently built roads. The town supervisor, every year - has to submit a "road inventory" on to the county highway supervisor - and then the county submits it to the State. This inventory for your town shows every road the town claims to have a right to - with measurements, including widths. If they write in the inventory that your road is 66 feet wide - regardless of the actual width of the travelled section - then that is what it is - unless someone else takes the time and trouble to prove otherwise. In my case - I did just that.
It's a long story - not worth repeating here. Long-story short - the town asked my permission to remove two dead elm trees - and I said yes. I then left town for two weeks - came back home and they'd removed over 30 large, heathy hard maple trees of mine and illegally widened the road. And, to add insult to injury - town workers took all the wood to their homes for firewood. Thus my problem. Eventually, I got all the wood back, and narrowed the road back where it was. I did NOT however, get the living trees replaced - which were over 100 years old.
 
Here in IA they usually just come out and cut a hole in the size of your tree about 4 feet crom the wire at the closest point. They shred and haul the mess.

I have a neighbor that planted trees right to the edge of the property. They trimmed him back once. He raised a huge stink about it and threatened to sue. So now the power lines run right down the fence line till just before his property, runs diagonal across the road to a single pole across from his lane, and back over just past his trees. Yep. They put in one extra pole and strung the wire around 'em.
 
Absolutely worth protecting....and to your point, 100 years of histry that could be wiped away in 10 minutes, reduced to wood chips.
 
Aug. 14 2003, I lived through that Thursday, in NYC, had 3 large ironworker crews going, crane swinging on 2 sites, and made it through all my daily jobsite routines, barely got out of Manhattan after being briefly stuck on a subway car, between that and what happened 2 years before, was time to exit stage left from that place, did that about 2 months later. That was an unreal incident, one of my foremen and a couple of journeymen were stuck on the Manhattan bridge until 2:00-3:00 a.m. My place in NJ never lost power but our office in Westchester county was out, no one had a clue what was up.

Sounds like that guy had a claim, and when you're in the right, might as well fight.
 
When they did their incredible scew-up here last year - when building a new road through my land - I don't think any of it was collectively vindictive. It just seemed that the "new" National Grid was incredibly unorganized. And, nobody working for them at an administrative level was willing to take repsonsibility for any of their mistakes.

When the State Police came here - it was because National Grid called them on ME - but the whole thing backfired on them. The equipment I chained to a tree was actually owned by Aslplundh - but they were working in behalf of National Grid.

The reality is - they have a lot of power lines above ground - and if they had their way - they'd cut down all the trees. That would make things much simpler and go a long way to prevent power outages. But . . . some people like trees - and own them. So, all has to be a compromise. I have my rights as a property owner - and the power company has their rights. Point is - they should NOT go beyond those rights - and they often do.

I have two properties in Northen Michigan and the power company there is a Co-Op - i.e. Presque Isle Electric and Gas. Dealing with them is incredibly different than here in NY. They are polite, organized, seem to care about property rights, etc. A real pleasure to deal with.
 
It don't take long, does it. I saw an episode of " tougher in Alaska" last week they dropped a 400 year old tree, they were profiling timber harvesting in remote locations. Not an enviro activist or tree hugger by any means either, but it does make you cringe to see something like that cut down, not sure why just kind of respect those real old trees, often wonder what the lifespan of them really is. Timber harvesting does have to be done, a renewable natural resource, but boy I'd be hardpressed to saw that old giant down if it were healthy, they must still have some old growth in Alaska.
 
Sounds like we share some experience.

As far as the blackout, it hit while I was taking my first and only ride on Cleveland's light rail. Was goin' down to the airport to take a one-way rental to Columbus to pick up a car I'd bought. Long story short, after a two-hour wait, we wound up walking down the right of way into the Terminal Tower, and I was able to get a (packed!) bus to the airport where the rental company was doing their paperwork by hand.

Prior to that I worked for Columbia University and was there on 9/11. We were hosting a conference that day, and didn't know until later that the rumble that shook Lerner Hall (at 114th St.) was the shock of the first tower falling. I just lived down at 98th and West End, and usually walked back and forth to work, so the transit disruptions of that day didn't bother me any. (Plenty else did and still does, but that's beside the point.) I do recall seein' the M104 packed since the 7th Avenue was down.

What I can say is that the transit system in Cleveland and their riders responded about as well as New Yorkers in a similar situation. The train I was on when we got stuck was just a two-car affair. When it became plain that we were going to be there for a while, the motorman (a woman, actually) lowered her pantograph and used her batteries to open the doors on the side away from the third-rail used by another line that runs over the same tracks, and declared the lead car to be smoking, and the aft carriage for smokers.
 
Yeah I'm sure, these topics can take up some space,you can lose focus sometimes when reading, and go astray a bit, but it's one of those landowner issues that many many farms deal with, can affect all kinds of things too.

That's the thing, you think you have an agreement, and while you're away, that is kind of why I initiated the thread, if it has to be cut, storm, insect or other damage, ok, if it's a hazard to the lines ok, better now than later, but when they do what you describe, and I know exactly what you describe, we have many roads like that with those age trees, I think some consideration and or negotiation is due to the landowner before any action is taken, all parties should be clear on what is agreed, with no deviation taking place when they do the work, can't replace those in ones life time.

The road inventory submitted to the county/state, obviously for funding or something, that is interesting, will have to gather more information specific to this, as some of these lots may end up being sold/developed. I'm well versed in details on matters like this, I've uncovered mistakes on formal documents in the past, very possible, never know what you may find until you look em over with a fine tooth comb.
 
I have lived in my house for 22 years. I have talked to the tree trimming guys, trying to get them to cut the trees down, rather than come out every couple of years and trim it. I talked to the forestor for the power company. I think these guys don't want to really clear the right of way, it would eliminate their job. And I don't want to cut trees too close to the line, if I screw up and drop it on the line, then I have a problem. A screwy system.
 
Both those days were bad scenes, what happened downtown, Pentagon and in PA. just hard to reconcile with. We had crews working on jobs from downtown, to uptown on various jobs, lot of work in the mid 90's to that time, was and still is a boomtime era for construction there. Also had a crew at Newark aiport at the new continental air traffic control tower who saw this event. You should have seen what it was like to get on the airside where we were working on that airport after this, was nerve racking, you did not want to be mistakenly ID'd, they'd have cut you in half with bullets, everyone was on edge. I had older guys on my crews who were actually on the WTC job when it was built. I used to go down there and take the elevator to the top quite often, to take in the view and look at the job sites from afar. We were on W3rd st that day, what we saw you can't describe without having some extremely bitter thoughts and vengeance included, better left said that I'd like to see justice done in my lifetime, a real sore subject for me and a lot of people, it's unfinished business in my book. I was there in '93 as well and was in disbelief at first when seeing the towers on fire, but knew all along this was not over in '93, just hoped I was not in the tunnel headed in/out, they caught those guys before that happened, but what I can't understand is why they did not think they would return, after that tunnel conspiracy post '93 which also seemed to have been kept on the down low, back burner, you knew this was not over and evil minds were at work against us, had that truck bomb been in the tunnel in '93.... just unbelievable. Seemed like a lot of people who were management on jobsites also became real @ssholes after what happened, people never talked about it much, but a lot of people became really nasty in the wake of this, the jobsites were boiling caldrons of stress, became much more so than they ever were before, people were constantly on edge about every little thing.

They just lost a crane at 98th over on the west side, know the crane outfit very well, same outfit lost one in March, and know the engineer that filed the permit on that one, he did all my filings and engineering for my crane installations, it's an extremely dangerous place to work, super fast paced, things happen in split seconds, have to be on your toes at all times with everything you do.

We did a sizeable job at Columbia Univesity, they built Lenfest Hall there in '02 a reinforced concrete high rise dorm and we did all the metal and glass on that one, was not assigned that job, but had to get involved because we were so busy then, the other project manager was overloaded, can remember checking rough openings behind the mason on that one. There was another new building coming up behind Lenfest Hall too.

Getting stuck on a subway car and having to walk the track, 3rd rail, rats inside old coffee cups, stench, garbage, homeless people, flooded areas, it's a bad place to be in the dark, a real bad place to be, been there done that, that was my last subway ride, been stuck on hot sweaty cars in the summer before that day, narrowly escaping to a nearby station was the last straw, at least for awhile, the few times I experienced it was enough to do it for me. Those cross street, east/west trains get dangerously crowded, if the president is in town, they are a mistake to ride on, better to walk. Those tunnels and areas under the island of Manhattan are a city in themselves.
 
Here are a few pieces of New York highway law and/or case-law that I bet neither your highway supervisor or town attorney know anything about.

One other note. Probably now I'm going to sound like a wacko - but I just got done (I think) with a battle with Verizon. Over two years ago, I hit and underground phone cable out in the middle of my cornfield - all unmarked and 8 inches deep. I helped their guys fix it and did all the escavation with my own backhoe. A year later, they sent me a bill for over $4000. So, I sent them MY bill. They threatened me, over and over, saying I violated the "Dig New York" guidlines and several laws. Well . . . I got them all and read closely. Farm equipment on my property is exempt - case-closed. I'm sure they knew that all along but figured they could scare me into paying them anyway. And, I'd been asking them for 10 years to mark all their underground cables on my property and they refused.

Here's the road stuff:


Highway Law, Article VIII: Town Highways NY CLS High Sec. 189 (2000)

All lands which shall have been used by the public as a highway for the period of ten years of
more, shall be a highway.

The width of a highway by use is determined by the extent of the use. 1947 Ops St Compt 273.

A highway may become a public highway through public use irrespective of width; the width of
such a highway is defined by the extent of the use. 1955 Ops St Compt File #7515.

The width of a highway by virtue of public user is determined by the extent of the use, and
where less than three rods have been coninuoulsly used and maintained for more than fifteen
years the width is limited to the traveled portion of the road . . . 1961 OPS St Compt #821

Whether a road becomes a public highway by “user” depends upon compliance with the
provisions of this section, but the burden of establishing “user” rests upon the town in which the
road situated and must be established by a perponderance of the evidence, and it was not the
legislative intent in enacting this section to permit a town to appropriate land not actually in use
as a road without the consent of the owner or by due process of law, and the town which
appropriated land for road purposes and in so doing destroyed valuable trees is liable in
damages. Van Allen v. Kinderhook (1965)

Purpose of said law is not to authorize town superintendent to appropriate lands not actually in
use as roads without consent of owner, and to do otherwise would result in unconstitutiioal
taking of real proerty without due process of law. Usher v. Mobbs (1985)

CLS Highway Law Section 189 does not create town easement of 3 rods width since width of
road deemed public highway by virtue of public use is determined by width of actual use of road
. . . Usher v. Mobbs (1985) 129 Misc 2d 529, 493 NYS2d 531.
 
Hey . . . I worked on the tree gang and for the power company and I don't know how it all works. Most of the time - the power company wants as much cut down as possible. The more cut - the cheaper it is in the long run for them. But, if some trees are overcut - they go into shock and die -especially sensitive trees like Norway or Japanese Maples. We killed a whole village's worth of trees one year - and the power company got sued over it. We (Asplundh) weren't accountable - we were just the sub-contractors.

In rural areas - it can differ. Right now, I've got 4800 volt bare highlines running over my house (10 feet up) and through deep woods that I own. The poles are ready to fall down and are 50 years old plus. I have huge tree limbs hanging all over the lines. Next big storm it's going to be a mess. I called them several times and warned them - and they've done nothing. So, who the heck knows?
 
Well, this is quite a thread. I haven't got time to read it all now.
Let's just say that I am a forester (arborist) with a rural electric cooperative. We have easements for 90+% of what we have. Even with easements, people can still be problematic. That's the biggest pain in the rump about this job - dealing with unhappy people.
Most of our easements are for 15' either side of the wires. We do not notify. That is what the easement did. And we certainly don't ask for permission, either. The easement did that, too. There is a utility here in NH spends over $2 million per year just on permissions. That is more than our whole budget.
I could tell you stories about some of the people we've had to deal with. Just today, a lady called who said she is "allergic to our poles". Guess we'll have to go down there and pull up the ones that are there and give her some that are made out of soybeans or something. We and our contractors have been threatened at gunpoint.
Most people, of course, are just fine and realize that we need to do what we need to do to keep the line safe and dependable. It only takes one bunghole to ruin your whole day, though.
If it was up to me, I would send a notice along with the bill about once a year saying something like this: "If you have overhead electric lines on your property, eventually we will have to cut and trim trees and brush. If you have planted something within the easement, it is fair game. This is your notice."
I believe I have heard every possible complaint. Most of our contractors are great. We don't make them ask permission but we encourage them to talk to people. The ones that really jack me up are the people who have been watching a crew work on their road, then call up and say "I didn't know they were going to do that on my property".
DOH!
 
Sounds like the way another utility operates here in NH. That tree outfit wouldn't have bright orange trucks, would it?
 
Don't you think we have a s*** list here where I work, too! I have my own personal list. There is one lady who, if I ever get another chance before I retire, will be the absolute last one to come back on after a storm. Maybe it ain't the "correct" attitude to have but that's the way it is.
I know of one old lineman who was working in a big storm and there was this woman b!tching at him for hours. They had the line all ready to energize, but before they did that, this old lineman went to this lady's transformer and lifted the lead. After they heated the line up, they called in that it was all back on, then left the area. Everyone had power except this one person, who had to wait a few more hours for another crew to come back and put the lead back on. Payback, as they say, is a b_____.
 
The way I understand it is as follow: If the power comp. has an easement, and most do then they can cut down trees in "their" easement, and not cut down "your" trees. However they can cut limbs that hang over their easement.
True story: 10+ years ago I guy I know of bought a 10 acre parcel of all woods in Lapeer county Mich. He staked out a 30' wide section 500' long for the power comp. to come in and cut down so they could put poles in. During the week the power comp. had a contractor mistakenly take out the whole front 5 acres of trees, Yep all 5 acres of trees--Gone.
The guy goes up to the property on the weekend and sees the big pile of multch and barren land. Of course he is super *issed off and calls the power comp. The power comp. settled for an out of court check for $10,000.

Dont trust any contractor cutting trees for the power comp. And if you see them be sure to let them know where the property lines are and the easements. I would not threaten with violence but be sure to be intelligent and call the cops if need be.
 
Some of those optic cables were laid without esements or compensation. There's a class action against Quest for laying one from Tenn to Ind.
 
What I am seeing is the contractor doesn't want to do a good job - I wanted several trees cut down, so I didn't have to deal with it. Instead, I have several trees with all the limbs cut off one side. Looks ugly, not good for the tree, and they are still less than 2o ft from the line. I asked the forester to come out, she marked the trees, but only some marked trees got cut. I called back, but was told that the crew was no longer availible in my area, sorry. I can see that I will have to deal with these bozos again.
 
It has changed - sometimes Asplungh, sometimes others, from the area, some from Indiana.
 
Not sure about rights but I do know I appreciate uninterupted power all year long. The huge maples that look like pac-man from the side are actually kind of neat. What bothers me is when the county guys go thru and "trim" with the bush hog on a telescoping hydraulic arm. Talk about ugly, twisted mangled brush and tree limbs. Yikes!

Bill
 
Here in my neck of the woods, the power company can cut down any trees that threaten the power lines. VDOT also can remove trees that may casue a hazard on the road way. VDOT rarely ever does any of this as 98% of the time its the power companys problem .

Last month the VDOT guy along with power company stopped by the farm and explained they wanted to cut out about 30 scrub walnut trees that were mostley dead/dying under the power line and on VDOT"s and Power Companys easement.Which was good for me becasue I had planned on removing them anyway to build new fence. I have always been notified in person weeks before or if I wasnt home they left a door hanger with the contact person for power company.

Now for the contractor they use to remove the trees we have had words several times. Last month the idiots got two of there trucks stuck which tore the field up in a few places and cut the fence and removed posts to get out. After some heated words between me and the foreman, the company owner showed up and cut me a check for the cut fence, posts, mud hole and ruts they created.
 
Les, I called the co-op a year or two ago because I was concerned about the contractor's work (red trucks) They were getting only about 100 ft or so done per day in between all their breaks so I was concerned about how it would impact my bill. The answer was, they get paid by the mile so it's their boss that takes the hit.
 
The tree contractor topped some maples and pines on my property(western ny). They told me NYS power authority has widened the easement due to that huge outage we had. A several million $ fine was issued over that. If they due not trim back the fine doubles next year. I could even read the contract/easement papers if I had wanted to. The contractors were ok. They did top instead of cutting down like they wanted to.
 
Dang I wish we had that problem. The utility companies here won't cut or trim until the line is put out of service. There's a phone line up the road from me running THROUGH a tree trunk that has grown around it.

The main hydro line up the road from a rental house we own had the entire top third of a big old maple come down on the line and hang up in a storm last year, the fork straddled the line just right. Bigger trucks and school buses were brushing the branches when they went under, line was sagging a good three feet in the middle.

Took 10 FREAKING DAYS before they'd come take the treetop off the lines and even then they were arguing about whether it was the hydro companies responsibility or the municipality..... yeah right the township road guys are qualified to deal with a hydro line.
 
Here in MI. if they do anything on an "easment"they have to notify you and remedy any disputes BEFORE they cut or move or excavate anything. It IS an easment after all which allows them use and conveyance. When they did our 100yd driveway (200 amp service overhead)they came out and marked everything and then ASKED if I had any objections. I wanted one pine left that they had marked and they gladly left it be. An easment does NOT give them exclusive rights to do whatever they want on that easment.
 
In Indiana the ROW is 20 ft to either side of the property line unless it's less. Many times in the counties that predate statehood the ROW is the pavement. It's not uncommon around here to see utility poles and fence posts 1 ft from the pavement.

2 years ago SEIREMC's contractor asked to clear trees along our driveway (about 800 ft). Except for 1 big old tree near the house we told them to cut whatever they felt necessary. They stacked the firewood and blew the wood chips into the woods. Last year they came back and wanted to spray brush, we said go ahead. We have never had problems with the people, being a rural electric may make all the difference.
 
WOW- is this ever a long reply!
About ten years ago the power company was going to "day light" my big pine tree out front. They told me that means EVERY branch from the wires up! I called the phone number on the letter and got hold of the contractor. He was real nice after I asked how far away the limb had to be and I would do it for him! It worked folks. I took off one branch and a few little twigs. I retrimmed the tree about five years ago. Never had any trouble. Jeffcat
 
Were your trees close enough that they could easily fall on the line? Personally, I'd be happy that they actually did some trimming. Around here they're all too willing to do nothing, then people start screaming in November when the first storms with heavy wet snow bring the branches and trees down on the lines.... and then the power's off. Funny thing is that the people who generally screamed loudest to save the trees in the summer are also the first ones screaming that the power is off, that they pay too much for power and that there is no maintenance done on the lines.
I'm not making that as a personal remark about you, but I hear that a lot around 'here'.


Rod
 
You lost me there. An "easement" is exactly the same thing as "right of way" when used in the same context. In a legal context - a "right of way" is a type of easement.

In regard to the power company having exclusive rights with an easement/right-of-way - sometimes they do. It all depends on exactly what was written and signed.

Years ago - when many property owners were less skeptical and more trusting - many power companies had "standard form" right-of-way agreements that virtually gave them permission to do anything.

I've got property in the Adirondack Mountains - with a easement given to the power company in 1945. Standard form - and grants them the right to do anything they deem necessary to maintain their power lines in regard to the property I own - and - it further adds it will be solely up to them - to decide exacty what is necessary - and NOT the property owner.

That's about as open-ended as you can get.
 
After cleaning up the mess they left and taking 2 loads of wood out, the one tree was next to the pole, like right next to it. I was kind of dumbfounded as to what kind it was, has leaves like a black walnut, bark like an elm, and the heart wood was dark like black walnut, then I look around there are others in the vicinity same kind of tree, have to look that one up and see what it was, I don't recall what it looked like before, kind of an overgrown corner area, but judging by the shape of this tree, and location, probably had to go. Only one out of 4 could have stayed and that was questionable too, they did the righ thing, left all the branches, what else is new, but the town is due to make a brush run and I can pile em right across the road, the area is cleaned up and the neighbors won't be dumping their clippings here anymore, + 3/4 cord of wood I did not have to cut, might have to follow em around with the F-600 and load up on wood where people don't want it.
 
Yeah, thats along the lines of what I thought they had rights to do in regards to these lines, the location was only about 100 yds or so from the NYS Rt.7, and usually along state roads they seem be able to do what they need to, kind of a priority.
 
State and County Roads are different than town roads. They become roads - legally - in a different way, are usually deeded, and have large side-of-road right-of-ways. I've got several properties along State Route 7. But, a 100 yards is way past any right-of-way they have. As I recall, they have 50' from the outside edge of the road.

Route #7 can be complicated in some areas since it's been moved many times. Where I am, there three of them - the old and original Route #7 that was originally called "Susquehanna Trail", then the second Route #7 when it got moved in the 1940s, then the present version - changed again in the late 1960s. Usually, all former right-of-ways are nullified once the new ones are gotten.
Also, Route 7 has a lot of rail-road properties along the side of it - some the railroad owns - and some are easements. Got a fight going on here right now. A bridge was condemened - right along Route 7 - crossing over the railroad tracks. It's going to cost a fortune to fix - and subsequently - the railroad says the State owns it and should pay for it. The State says the town owns it. The Town doesn't have a clue but suspects the railroad owns it. So - it's a mess. These entities like to claim rights when it behooves them - and dis-avow them when convenient.
 
Figures, the only place a black walnut decides to grow, is under the power lines, got a splinter off a log, took one whiff, definitely black walnut, no metal, clean log too, just came up when the area was left untouched, though the diameter was about 12", rock in a hard place, see that we have a few more in the area and one small one popping up out of a 40 year old pile of topsoil, will have to transplant that one.
 
Wow, that gets into an entangled mess, with a lot of historical documents to research. The stipulations contained within, and as changed throughout the progression of years, ought to be fun to make a determination on things there.

Mentioned above, the one tree next to the pole was a 12" dia. black walnut, heartwood was probably big enough for (1) 6" x 6", the one place one of these decides to grow LOL.... well you watch I'll dry those logs and make some stock out of em for woodworking even if it's inlay strips, and I'll grab the stump too. I've never seen any of those trees on our place before, probably not a chance it would have been worth dealing with over, being so close to the pole, just figures the one that does grow was there too, oh well at least the lines are clear !
 
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