Old single acting loader, goes up, but won't come down

mywizbo · Feb 19, 2023

I have an Allis D17 and got a loader for it from a salvage yard. The loader frame is the kind that was an option for the original tractor. It's got a bucket on it currently. The cylinder arms were extended about 1/2 way when I installed it so I jacked up the bucket in order to get it installed. All hoses were bad, so I replaced them. After I jacked up the bucket and installed it, I thought the weight would pull it down because there weren't any hoses installed - but it stayed 1/2 up.
Then I installed new hoses and thought that if I push the bucket up and jolt the cylinders and then let it drop maybe it would come down. Now it's all the way up/extended and still won't come down. Any ideas would be very much appreciated.
Thank you.

Jim.ME · Feb 19, 2023

This sheds more light on the problem, than your earlier posts did. If you mechanically jacked/forced the loader arms up, and it stayed up without any hoses connected, I would say the cylinders maybe junk internally. They could be rusted up internally and not allowing the rods/pistons to move freely in the barrel bores. My thought is, you need to hold the arms up with something, remove the cylinders, and safely lower the arms to the ground. Then disassemble and inspect the cylinders.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2023

I'd almost bet the problem is in the tractor valve. A restrictor closed or some such thing. Something you might want to post on the Allis forum.

cjunrau · Feb 19, 2023

I agree with Jim inside of cylinders are probably rusted bad.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2023

It should have come back down to where it was shouldn't it?

mtf · Feb 19, 2023

If the cylinders were double acting with one port completely
closed, would cause the symptoms you describe.

Jim.ME · Feb 19, 2023

His post says the cylinders were half extended when he got it from a salvage yard. It stayed half extended while he jacked it up and installed it. He replaced all the hoses. It stayed that way before any hydraulics were hooked up. When he did put hydraulic power to it, the hydraulic pressure it forced the arms/bucket up and it won't come down. That sounds like rust inside the cylinders to me, not a hydraulic port blocked on the cylinders or valve problem.

mywizbo · Feb 19, 2023

I was thinking the same thing. If it was rusted or somehow fouled up inside the cylinder, wouldn't it go back down to the 1/2 way point? Here's some pictures.

[/img:03d5e8d0c6]

mywizbo · Feb 19, 2023

Thank you very much for your help, and to everyone who replied so far. What do you think about the reply I made to another poster? wouldn't it have gone back down to the 1/2 point where it was originally if it was rusted inside after I jolted it? You can see in the pics I uploaded where the line is on the extended arm where it was clean on the inside of the cylinder and where 1/2 was open to the elements while it was laying in the field at the yard.

Jim.ME · Feb 19, 2023

It might not if it pushed a bunch of rust up the barrel and got between the barrel and head of the rod. You can try loosening the hex gland nuts on the rod end of the cylinders and putting some penetrating oil to the rod, so it gets inside the gland. Maybe the packing is compressed enough and dry from setting to hold the rams. Whatever you do, use extreme care around that raised loader and keep people away.

If the valve is holding it loosening the lift hose at the cylinder would let oil out and the rams retract.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2023

So you're plumbed to the tractor remote valve, not to a seperate loader valve? I don't see a loader valve, so I
assume plumbed to the tractor remote. I don't know the first thing about Allis hydraulics, but if it was an
Oliver, I could about guarantee that you emptied too much oil out of the reservoir when you pumped that oil in to
the cylinders so it's not opening the valve to let the oil return, or that you aren't revving the engine high
enough to release it.

mywizbo · Feb 19, 2023

Yes, I'm using the remote...and it's just one line, it doesn't have a return. Interesting, I do have a small leak in the hydraulic system that I haven't tackled (I've just been topping it off as necessary). I'll fill the reservoir up more and see if that helps - that would certainly be a lot easier than taking the cylinders apart. I'll see if this works and if not I'll have to deal with the cylinders I guess.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2023

Rev the engine up too.

Paul swpa · Feb 19, 2023

Just a thought to isolate where problem
is, could you get tractor somewhere that
you can chain loader up to block and
tackle or chain hoist? Then with clean
buckets under hose connections on
cylinders, crack them open a little till
oil will come out and try slowly lower
loader with chain hoist. That would
eliminate cylinder problems I think.

Jim.ME · Feb 19, 2023

He posted "I thought the weight would pull it down because there weren't any hoses installed - but it stayed 1/2 up." I may be missing something, but how does the valve that is not connected or the hydraulic level cause that?

Bruce from Can. · Feb 19, 2023

Guess Id try the simple thing first. Fasten the loader to
a chain hoist, and take the hydraulic lines off of the
cylinder and see what runs out with the oil, as you
lower the chain hoist. Once the oil can run out, there
isnt anything to hold the cylinder from coming down
as you lower the hoist., unless the barrel is full of rust,
or the rod is bent. This will definitely rule on any issues
with the cylinders them selves, and place any
problems with the plumbing.

stevieb49829 · Feb 19, 2023

Are you dealing with freezing temps right now? Those cylinders may have water/ice in them, instead of rust, or both ice and rust. steve

mywizbo · Feb 19, 2023

Yea, when I originally installed it the hoses weren't attached to anything and it still wouldn't come down. Anyway, I tried to filling up the hydraulic fluid reservoir and still no dice.
It's probably a good idea to connect the bucket to a hoist anyway.
Do I need a special tool to loosen the hex gland nuts or can I use a big pipe wrench? Should I just support the bucket and loosen the nut a little and try to squirt some oil down there?
You guys are seriously the best - thanks so much for caring and helping.

rrlund · Feb 19, 2023

When you get something holding it up, take a hose off and put the end in a bucket, forget about gland nuts or
whatever you're talking about. If the cylinders slid in and out before you put the loader on, I'm sticking to what
I said about the tractor valve being the problem. Are you sure you have the hose hooked to the correct place on
the tractor. I'll repeat my advice about posting on the Allis forum. From what I've read there, some of those
models had some odd quirks pertaining to the hydraulics.

BarnyardEngineering · Feb 19, 2023

If it would not come down by gravity with no hoses connected, the problem is mechanical not hydraulic.

Have you made any attempt to pull the loader down mechanically? Obviously be safe about it. Don't park anything underneath. Don't stand underneath. Just hook your chain hoist to something solid down low and attempt to pull it down with the hydraulic line open into a bucket.

By pulling you may also determine if one or both cylinders are the problem. If one side moves and the other doesn't, the side that doesn't move is jammed up somewhere.

While you have it hoisted up now, disconnect the cylinders and attempt to lower the loader with the chain hoist. That will tell you if the problem is in one or both hinge points.

Old single acting loader, goes up, but won't come down

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads