806 T/A and PTO Issues

Woody7902

New User
So I just did a clutch in my 806 (New Flywheel, Clutch Kit, and IDPTO shaft since the old one had almost no splines left(see image). Stuck it back together, adjusted clutch, T/A, dump valve, and trans brake according to Tractor Vet and the manual. Now the PTO wont stop spinning after shut off, I can't even stop it with a board, as well as when pulling the T/A lever back nothing happens. The tractor doesn't stop moving but it acts like it's still in DD. I can't even hear anything try to grab/grind/etc. Nothing. It did neither of these things before pulling it in the shop. Just changed hydraulic oil and filter since it was disgusting, but no sludge or anything in the filter, just milky oil. Still no change in either problem. As for the PTO I'm assuming that with the new IDPTO shaft the brake can no longer stop it, which would insue a rebuild. As for the T/A I am completely stumped, everything I have read on here, and RedPower says that regardless the T/A should catch in low gear. I have nothing in any gear. Is this a hydraulic issue? An adjustment issue? Ive pulled the 5/8 plug on the MCV and primed everything. Keep in mind the steering and three point work fine and it drives fine. I have not checked the remotes. My next step is to check pressure from plug on left side of PTO housing. Is there a way to check pressure for T/A issues? Any insight or help is greatly appreciated Thanks.
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Did the tractor slide together easy with the new shaft and clutch? Is the snap ring on the TA selector spool contact the retaining nut when you shift the TA. It should just touch and then lift about a inch and a quarter. TA pressure can be checked at the bottom plug of the mcv.need a adapter to thread in that hole after plug removal for a gauge. PTO sounds like clutches are welded together and won't stop. But this don't make sense, you said everything was fine before. This issues are very strange.
 
Tractor went together no problems. Yes the snap ring on the spool is just touching the retaining nut when pushed forward in DD. I'll look into that, thankyou
 
Woody welcome to YT! So did you operate the tractor much or at all prior to this? The PTO is its own separate unit has its own pump, so whatever you did up front really has no affect on it unless you forced something together with bolts. Since you are new here we have no clue what your mechanical skills are, have you split other tractors before? Slipping together easily is NOT drawing it together evenly with an impact. Sorry, but this needed to be stated to help diagnose the problem.
 
Even if he forced it together in the front with the bolts that would not affect the PTO.

Like you said, the PTO is self-contained. Has its own hydraulic pump. Has its own clutches. So if it's spinning and it won't shut off it's internal to the PTO unit. Clutches warped or welded together from abuse. Maybe something in the control spool.
 
Thanks for responding. I've split a couple tractors with a buddy who helped me with this. We're no professional mechanics but we're not spring chickens either. First time putting it back together gave us trouble, pulled it back apart, ordered a new pilot bearing and made sure there was no burs on any splines. Everthing looked good, second time we put it back together we were able to push it within a 1/4 inch and EASILY draw it into with the bellhousing bolts. NOT with an impact, with a wrench. So yes there was trouble the first time where things got tight but we didnt force it, called it quits replaced the pilot bearing since the first one got boogered a little bit and it went back together well the second time. This tractor is my grandfather's, hes had it since about 1975. Road hard to say the least. I'm sure it was on the baler earlier in it's life, the last 5-10 years its done more light duty work like pulling a grain drill or spraying. But I use it to pickup bales with a New Holland 1033, thats about the most abuse it sees nowadays. Grandfather does keep up with maintaince very well so god knows when the last time the hydraulic oil and stuff was changed.
 
Thanks for replying BarnyardEngineering. So sounds to me like PTO needs a rebuild which I was expecting. Any insight on the T/A?
 
BY, I should have clarified that the questions about
how easy it went together was more associated with
the TA problems. I do see he said ..it did neither of
these things pulling it in the shop.. missed that the first
read. Be interesting to know if this is a tractor he is
resurrecting or if it is a ..long time user.. that he has
history on.
 
Ah ok. It's been grandfather's tractor forever. I do not know much history on it but I'm sure he does. I know it got a clutch once before although I'm not sure how long. I believe probably 20-25 years ago. Otherwise I'm sure not much else has been done.
 
On the PTO unit there is a hole in the bracket holding the linkage for the lever on the left. there is a plug there you take out and with an adapter you can screw in a hose and a gage to check the pressures on it. With oil at operating temp check pressures. they should be in the 240 area if I remember right. IF T.V. comes on here he will have the setting for you. When pressure is right when PTO is shut off the brake should come on and stop shaft from turning when off. I suspect pressure is off and possibly the valve has some rust on it causing the PTO to not shut off maybe. The valve has to come out the bottom there is a plug right below it and it will drop out the bottom in a pail. If it didn't come on I would suspect the pin in the valve broke not pulling the bottom half up. In the casting behind the clutch bearing release fork on the non TA models there is a bushing that wears. Don't remember if there is a different one for the TA models if there is it might be worn causing a problem. There is a seal there I always change when I'm in one of those so it doesn't go to leaking afterwards. With the TA lever back or forward it should not stop. IF it does when back the TA would be a low pressure or shot issue. It should only stop when you push the clutch pedal out. IF the oil is white to carmel colored from water and a cold climate it is possible something is froze causing this problem. Just because you change the filter and oil does not mean you got all the water and oil out since the lines to the oil cooler and 3pt cylinder would have a bit in them along with the entire system would not purge without some help or new oil flow. you will need several filters to get the rest of the water out. the other choice is to change oil a couple times more. IF you decide to go that route use a cheap oil for the flush even though there is no cheap oil anymore. You will still have some water over time from condensation you can't prevent anyway.
 
Thanks CG. That was my next step to test pressures at PTO where you said I just have to get an adapter. Book says 175-185 PSI engaged at 2100rpm, and 40-45 psi at partial engaged position. Shouldn't drop more than 40 psi when throttled back down to idle. I'm in Jersey so coldest we've had lately is 32-34 but its been in the shop for a month and its always over 40 in there so nothing should be froze. Any experience flushing everything with diesel fuel, or would that cause potential problems?
 
On the TAA issue: you say it acts like jt is in DD with the stick forward or back. Are you SURE it is in DD? Or could it be in TA all the time? Will the engine hold the tractor back when driving down a hill? If its actually in TA and it freewheels going downhill then (assuming the TA worked properly before repair) maybe you arent getting hydraulic pressure to the TA clutches, could be a problem in the MCV. If it is actually in DD then you must have pressure to the TA, so the problem must be in the mechanical control linkage or the MCV. Looking at your pictures, good call on replacing the IPTO shaft but Ive seen worse. It hadnt failed yet.

As for the PTO issue: the pressure at that plug on the left side of the pto housing should be: off, 0 psi; partial engagement (feather position), 40 psi; and full engagement (linkage over center), 240 psi. If you have pressure when the control handle is down, the problem must be in the linkage or the valve. If no pressure, maybe the clutch discs are warped. Hope this helps!
 
Ok so i am here So where do we start , Putting a stupid clutch in a 806 could be done by a second day ag mechanic in school , it's NOT rocket science . The way i explain it is the easy way for a DIY job . Doing the clutch adjustment and the trans brake is simple , The Dump valve here well as long as the dash tel tale lite works and ya backed off the adjusting bolt six seven full turns OFF then have someone hold the clutch down at a ideal and start to turn the adjust bolt in SLOWLY till the tel tale light JUST GOES OFF then let the clutch up then ADD one more full turn and lock the bolt down with the jam nut . That is DONE Now on the M C V valve ya got the up and down Spool valve this is what does the changing from Direct drive to the under drive or low T/A . This valve MUST BE ALL THE WAY DOWN to the snap ring for HIGH and all the way UP for low .NOW IF and again i said IF the low side is headed SOUTH and your just rolling along and pull the lever back for low and you don't feel anything this could mean she is just free wheeling . This is NOT good , Now IF you load the tractor with the brakes slightly then you SHOULD FEEL the DOWN SHIFT and the Sprag should lock up and drive the tractor . NOW just setting here behind the Key board and NOT with the tractor in question we are Guesstamating . Now as to the PTO here there is NO way anything you did at the clutch will cause it to not stop , the clutch brake for the PTo is Inside the PTO and is applied by spring force , when you go to engauge the PTO as you lift the control lever the hyd. pressure starts to come up and around 30-40 PSI it starts to pull the PTO brake pistons off over coming the spring pressure and applying the lock up pressure to the clutch pa. The test plug as stated below needs the test tool adapter that is made to fit a J I C fitting . Ya use to be able to BUY one from Case I H , then it was up to you to get a small Hyd line made up about 3-4 feet long and add a liquid filled gauge good to 600 PSI . I personally set them at around 245-255 PSI on and 806 , higher Hp tractors we go a wee bit higher . This valve like stated Below comes out the bottom , BUT like the spool valve on the T/A it has to be all the way down to be OFF and as far up as the linkage will allow . BUT to raise the pressure here you screw that valve stem up into the square block to raies pressure . BUT don't get the hair brain idea to just start twisten it up in more WITH OUT a gauge hooked up . One can make a test fitting by buying another test port plug and drilling a .o56-.060 hole thru the center of it then welding on a 1/8 th inch union then adding a Hose to that then add your 600 PSI gauge . If your going to dabble in barn yard repair then ya need two Hyd. test gauges , ya need the 600 Psi gauge and ya need a 5000 Psi gauge with a hose rated for above 5000 PSI . So here are my thoughts on the PTO (1) you have burnt warped clutches on the drive clutch pac. and you will need to drain the read end and remove the PTo unit and get it up on the bench . When removing this unit first off it is heavy the use of a cherry picker and a four foot chain is advised , as you start to pull back you MUST tip the back end down so not to hit the suction tube as you come back and out , this can be damaged Vary easely , once out remove the two 1/4 inch bolts holding the tube clam and remove the tube , then go ahead and throw it up on the bench and remove the 9/16th bolts there are four and remover the Hyd Pump and now your at the clutch pac . Pop the snap ring out and start removing and inspecting the clutches and plates keeping them in order . If the clutch pac is toast then i always in stall the 7 and 9 set or HD set . Now to go deeper into the PTO unit here is where ya need the service tool to remove the snap ring and the HEAVY return spring , Do NOT just go and pop off the snap ring , it will EAT you and ya got a couple more snap rings to come off to get to the brake pistons . BUT before you get all excited just make sure the PTo valve is going all the way to seat.
 
In reply to tractor vet and maze. Thankyou for the insight. Dug into it more tonight..let it warm up outside for a good while and pulled it back in shop. Hooked gauge up to plug on left hand side of pto housing. According to the book I have (IH-32) at 2100rpm partial engagement pressure should be 41-46psi, 175-185psi at full engagement position. When reduced to idle pressure should not drop more than 40 psi. SEE PICTURES for gauge reading and shop manual procedures. That checks out, so problem solved the clutches are toast. Might as well do a full rebuild while Im in there this tractor has been road rough. As for the T/A the spool valve is adjusted correctly. But while I left it idle with the lever forward in DD position the tel light was off. When I returned, it was on. Pulled lever back and light goes off, push forward light comes back on. Now according to what you just said, I need to readjust the dump valve. As it is dark here now and dont have many hills or a third foot, attempting to freewheel and load it with the brakes will be tomorrows project. Thankyou for the help Ill keep you updated on T/A issues.
 
Ah on the pressure for get what the book calls for , if you work her under heavy load she will walk thru the clutches . We found that out way back in 1965 when the new john Beam tater harvester arrived with the power bar digger . when your setting the pressures on any part of the hyd. system i forgot to tell yoou all settings are done at normal operating temps on the hyd. oil and that is 150- 180 degrees . If you set pressure at cold when it warms up your going to be WAY OFF . . And it takes a LONG time to warm up 15-20 gallon of hyd. oil from outside temps at this time of the year . From 70 degrees outside air temp running the oil thru the flow rater causing it to heat takes me 20-30 min. running at high ideal and restricting flow .
 
well first off is the rear end housing HOT ?? and i mean working HOT as stated up about hyd. oil temp needs to be 150-180 degrees for all testing . As stated above forget the book on pressure settings , under heavy lods on the PTO at those pressure she can and will walk thru the clutches , Later updates brought them up to 210 215 BUT here again while choppen silage and working the snot out of them they would slip thru , so we set then up and these pressures normally would hold up to 125-130 Hp. and for higher hp. 265 -285 . Now as for the MCV pressure i shoot for 245-250 on 706- 856 on higher Hp we set pressures up . On ones that have turbos we go for the 265 on the MCV and 245- 260 on the PTO . The reason on this is that when the load on the PTO starts to drag the engine down the loc up pressure starts to drop and this is when you can walk thru the clutches and they don't like getting slipped .
 
Ok so after a rebuild I'm assuming I'm going to have to set these pressures up to what they should be. Going to put a gauge on mcv bottom plug this evening hopefully if I can find fittings as well as freewheeling and loading it with the brakes. Let you know how it goes....Thanks.
 

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