Aluminum pistons

why replace cast iron pistons with aluminum pistons? In my opinion a restoration isn't original unless everything down to the last bolt is stock. my John Deere B is going to be stock down to the last bolt. are there any special reasons to use aluminum? do any of you know of anybody who reproduce cast iron pistons for a john deere b, or are my original ones ok if they look rust free?

Aluminum offers better thermal expansion properties and less reciprocating weight to cut down on harmonic vibration- not that youd notice that on a JD two
cylinder!

If your cast piston O.D. are within specs for your bore I.D. (or you can re-sleeve your cylinders to resize them) then re-use them. If its cheaper to bore your
cylinders and use oversize aluminum pistons, go that route.

I dont think theyll throw you out of the tractor show if the judges find out...

I am an IH guy so take this as you will. A piston is a
wear part, so in my opinion you can replace it with any
replacement part made to fit and it would not deter
from the value of the restoration. Aluminum pistons are
an upgrade in technology. Lighter pistons in the end
should make the engine run more economically moving
around less mass takes less energy. Although if you
were trying to measure that difference you would be
hard pressed. I will also add you could be someone
who keeps this tractor until your dying day. If not good
luck finding the buyer who will pay you more for your
..restored.. tractor because it has the original stock
cast iron pistons. My 2 cents and worth exactly what
you are paying for it. I hope in the end your tractor
turns out to be everything you hoped for and brings
you much enjoyment.

Red I am like you who in the heck is ever going to know.. 70 year old tractor, guess he will just sleep better knowing he has it right..

All comments below are on target. Aluminum pistons put less stress on the rod and main bearings. as well as reducing the intrinsic vibrations. Restore would also mean putting cheap original JD paint on it, not modern long lasting acrylic polymers. Using non detergent oil, and alcohol antifreeze.
Jim

okay okay, I get it. this is my first restoration and have always believed that for a "original" or "stock" restoration" had to be perfect. so I'm wrong. I admit it. Thanks for your help anyway

(quoted from post at 19:50:08 11/07/22) okay okay, I get it. this is my first restoration and have always believed that for a "original" or "stock" restoration" had to be perfect. so I'm wrong. I admit it. Thanks for your help anyway

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Another way to look at it, is what changes any tractor or any machine, for that matter may have undergone during its working life. Most tractors will be "front line" for 15-20 years and will likely get "majored" 2-3 times during that time. Most owners would have done the job "right" by using the best parts available at the time. After front row it would have been secondary for another twenty years, then finally most likely fence rowed.

What size pistons are in it now? They may not be original.

By changing from the old Cast Iron to modern aluim. it fees up horse power and a Forged aluim. will transfer heat to the cylinder walls faster and cool faster also less weigh in reciprocating parts . Just like if you take a old Farmall cubby and change out the caast iron pistons to the ones used in the 184 add the new styel head and carb ya now have a SUPER cub and darn near doubling your horse power from the whopping 9-10 Hp to around 17-18 Hp and what it had trouble doing in first gear ya can now run second gear. Now on your B i am pretty sure she has been Bored and the new pistons used in the rebuild are aluim. because in my 35 years working on tractors NOT ONCe have i ever did a rebuild that the first thing asked is WHEN WE DO THIS DO YOU THINK YA CAN GET ME MORE POWER . These same words have been spoken by every farmer that owned a tractor and to satisfy them MFG.'s started offering BIGGER kits to increase CU. In. better governors carb kits with bigger jets , then ya get machine shops involved in the quest for more power so on gas engines lets shave the head , lets bore it out , lets put bigger valves in it , lest lighten up the rods and balance the rotating mass , oh wait lets change the cam grind . I am a second owner of a 1954 Farmall S/MTA and the old fellow who owned it wanted more power as when he bought it he was just getting started in farming and it pulled his three bottom plow just fine . BUT shortly after he bought it out comes the new 400 Farmall and it has MORE horse power and it can now pull four bottoms . Both tractors are 264 Cu . in. as this was the real start to the Horse power race along with more features better hyd.'s bigger heavier tractors more convinces like Power steering . So for the guys that already bought into the s/MTA only to see a fancier new model come out shortly after they wanted more , same went with the Deere's .Your OLD B did not have the getty up and go as the newer ones coming out and for guys with small farms that B was is big tractor just like the Farmall H . Yea i am and OLD Goat that has been around Farming since the early 50's and i have seen a lot of improvements . Yep Like Other guys i bleed red , BUT i have been known to work on Deeres , usually under the cover of darkness as not to tarnish my rep. I was around w2hen the one neighbor to my Uncle bought the first 4010 , i was there when the first 806 hit the Canfield fair in end of Aug 1963 and the man i was working for at the time BOUGHT IT and paid for it with a company check in full . And the next weekend i was with my uncle when he bought the second one to hit the area with a Check as it was unloaded off the truck on a Saturday morning the week after the fair. So like my S/M T A she is not 100% stock as it has almost every upgrade M & W offered and now has 60 Hp. I am well pleased with it and have owned it since June 27 1990 and to date the repairs to it have been a new Cam and lifters , timing gears . new brake disc. and a change to 12 volt . That tractor was one of the S/MTA's in the 1994 Red Power Video out of the 54 S/MTA'S at the show as being one of the most org. It comes down to WHO Care 's as long as it runs great and looks shinny . NO tthey did NOT come from the factory with a glossy shinny paint job with clear coated sanded down and buffed paint job , they came with a company color factory paint job in straight enamel . they had runs and light spots , BUT they were the company colors . If you had ever been to one of the BIG GREEN SHOWS and really looked deep into MOST of them tractors on display you would see that OH WAIT most of them DONT RUN and are ROLLED off trailers way before the crowed comes and when the Crowed leaves they are WINCHED back onto the trailers as they have NO OIL OR GREASE in them . That is so they NEVER LEAK and stay PRETTY . Ya see i got conned into going to one of them big John deere shows by my accountant as he is a huge J D fan and has several rare J D's . Yep i saw a lot I even hauled the vary first John Deere Model G GP J DS ever built into the grand opening of the J D show grounds in Grundy Center Iowa as a favor to one of his friends . I hauled one of his tractors out to one of his friends and loaded up one of his other tractors out there and we went and loaded up the GP's at another farm to haul it out to the show . when the show was over i had his two tractors on PLUS a M M he bought off another guy . So my advise to you if don't worry about ORG cast iron Pistons as NOBODY CARE'S make it look good and make it run good . With MOSt a restoration is a Sherman and Williams over haul.

I watched one of those car restoration shows once. They had a Corvette guy who does restorations. Strictly done as it rolled off the line. Even left the grease on the zerks because they didn't wipe it off at the factory. Different strokes for different folks.
AaronSEIA

You are not wrong. It is your tractor, do
what you think is right and in your own
fashion. I used to leave a few dents and
dings and farmer modifications just to
show that it was original and a working
tractor. I have seen tractors that every
part looked NOS, they looked perfect but
it only showed that the owner had deeper
pockets than I. Nothing wrong with a
tractor in it's work clothes either.

. Nothing wrong with a
tractor in it's work clothes either.[/quote]

I'm always drawn to the tractors that look like they just came from the field. I like seeing the battle scars and improvised repairs. If I want to see a brand-new tractor I can just stop by the JD dealer.
Gerrit

Searched two years for pistons for a Fordson F . Engine was already bored over. I had Wisco make mine out of bllet.aluminum. Very few
original Fordsons that made it thru depression. Only one I know for sure is at the Henry Ford museum and a friends private collection.

So when you find wooden bushings and wooden plugs in the carburetor I concede That these tractors were used to beyond engineering life
and with economic consideration. I do the best I can to make to run good for my use and others to enjoy.

Funny thing at tractor shows are the
guys with perfect restorations....
Except for the $5000. automotive
quality paint job! Lol. Those old
tractors didn't have great paint jobs
when they rolled off the line.....

You need to put aluminum pistons in the Purple Cub Super BEE,get maximum HP In that motor for Grandma!!!!

It was probly mid 60's when our 49 B needed an overhaul. Took it to John Deeler and when got it down found it needed proed. John Deere did make a oiston to fit so we pulled it home thinking we were going to have to junk it. I don't remember how we found out but a guy just a few miles from us was a part time mechanic under a shade tree (he worked in a factory) talkedd to him and he was able to come up with the size pistons needed but at that time we did not know anything about aluminum or cast or anything otherwise about engines so when he said he could get it fixed we said go ahead. It was only later we understood about aluminum and cast and then we found out about compression but just glad to have it working. Later he rebuilt the 51 A that I had gotten the same way. He has been dead now for several years same as Dad that died in very early of 1990's at same age as I am now of 79 years old. Both the A & B are now in hands of a collector.

(quoted from post at 19:50:08 11/07/22) okay okay, I get it. this is my first restoration and have always believed that for a "original" or "stock" restoration" had to be perfect. so I'm wrong. I admit it. Thanks for your help anyway

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Everyone has their own definition of "restoration." There are no hard and fast rules. If you feel that way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

What you'll find, unfortunately, is that some parts simply cannot be sourced "as original." Such as the pistons. All you're going to find new are aluminum pistons and they will most assuredly be aftermarket not even in Deere boxes, UNLESS you are extremely lucky and come across an NOS set somewhere.

I was at a tractor show years ago where they had a working thresher display. Everything was fine until the wind shifted and some chaff blew towards the tractor row. One guy had an absolute meltdown because some of it landed on his freshly restored Farmall ''M''!

He complained to the sponsoring club and they happily dusted off his precious artifact so he could load it up on his (non-enclosed) trailer and leave.

(quoted from post at 20:01:37 11/07/22) What size pistons are in it now? They may not be original.

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4-1/2 bore

I know when I'm beat. I'm only 14 years old and have very little experience. So I was wondering if any of you know of any companies that make good reproduced .045 or .090 aluminum pistons for a '43 John Deere B. Serial 138090

Its unclear to me whether you have cast iron
pistons and need new ones, or you have aluminum
and want to go back to stock cast iron. Dont give
up on cast iron if thats what you want to do. Your B
doesnt turn fast enough for lighter pistons to make
that much difference in horsepower. Of course
aluminum pistons have their advantages, but for a
parade tractor or something you want to get dusty
once in a while, they simply do not make any
difference. Make a plan the way you want your
tractor set up and dont let anybody deter you from
it.

Since you are requesting two different oversizes, Im guessing you havent bored it yet. Another possibility for you is if your cast pistons are loose, you can bore and sleeve your cylinder block back to standard... your machinist can fit the final inside diameter to your worn pistons... assuming the rest of the piston is good.

I'm going to go with... what does it take to make it run good, and for a very long time. And what is available now. Running is always better than rusting on a fence line or going to s scrapper. If you have to bore it, sleeve it, get aftermarket parts, you do what it takes for its longevity. No one is still running factory air in the tires of a tractor that old, so don't sweat the small stuff. And every idiot out there will realize the..... paint, tires, fuel, fluids, filters, plugs, sleeves, and a bunch of other things have been changed out.

(quoted from post at 14:19:02 11/08/22) I know when I'm beat. I'm only 14 years old and have very little experience. So I was wondering if any of you know of any companies that make good reproduced .045 or .090 aluminum pistons for a '43 John Deere B. Serial 138090

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You are coming at this from the wrong direction. 14 years old or 64 years old, the average guy can have only so much expertise in many technical subjects, and this includes engine rebuilding. What we do then is to find an expert that we can have confidence in to help us. In engine rebuilding this is the automotive machine shop. What most of us do, if we have determined that an engine needs rebuilding is to take the major components to an automotive machine shop that we have selected. They will examine these components and determine what needs to be done. At the very minimum they will hot tank the block, clean it thoroughly and insure that all of the oil galleries are clean. Sometimes they will tell you that a component that you bring to them needs to be discarded. This is huge. You don't want to spend a lot of time and money only to end up with a piece of junk because you started out not knowing that a major component was junk until you start it up. Once they see what you are starting with they will tell you what needs to be done to the components. They will tell you if you can re-use pistons or not. They will tell you what size over you need. Next if you will smart you will ask the shop to source your pistons for you. They buy pistons everyday. They have many sources. They will most likely save you a lot of money on them and if you let them source your parts you are assured that all the components will go together properly assuring a favorable outcome.

(quoted from post at 05:20:15 11/09/22)

(quoted from post at 14:19:02 11/08/22) I know when I'm beat. I'm only 14 years old and have very little experience. So I was wondering if any of you know of any companies that make good reproduced .045 or .090 aluminum pistons for a '43 John Deere B. Serial 138090

Click to expand...

You are coming at this from the wrong direction. 14 years old or 64 years old, the average guy can have only so much expertise in many technical subjects, and this includes engine rebuilding. What we do then is to find an expert that we can have confidence in to help us. In engine rebuilding this is the automotive machine shop. What most of us do, if we have determined that an engine needs rebuilding is to take the major components to an automotive machine shop that we have selected. They will examine these components and determine what needs to be done. At the very minimum they will hot tank the block, clean it thoroughly and insure that all of the oil galleries are clean. Sometimes they will tell you that a component that you bring to them needs to be discarded. This is huge. You don't want to spend a lot of time and money only to end up with a piece of junk because you started out not knowing that a major component was junk until you start it up. Once they see what you are starting with they will tell you what needs to be done to the components. They will tell you if you can re-use pistons or not. They will tell you what size over you need. Next if you will smart you will ask the shop to source your pistons for you. They buy pistons everyday. They have many sources. They will most likely save you a lot of money on them and if you let them source your parts you are assured that all the components will go together properly assuring a favorable outcome.

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NAPA?

(quoted from post at 13:45:26 11/09/22)

(quoted from post at 05:20:15 11/09/22)

(quoted from post at 14:19:02 11/08/22) I know when I'm beat. I'm only 14 years old and have very little experience. So I was wondering if any of you know of any companies that make good reproduced .045 or .090 aluminum pistons for a '43 John Deere B. Serial 138090

Click to expand...

You are coming at this from the wrong direction. 14 years old or 64 years old, the average guy can have only so much expertise in many technical subjects, and this includes engine rebuilding. What we do then is to find an expert that we can have confidence in to help us. In engine rebuilding this is the automotive machine shop. What most of us do, if we have determined that an engine needs rebuilding is to take the major components to an automotive machine shop that we have selected. They will examine these components and determine what needs to be done. At the very minimum they will hot tank the block, clean it thoroughly and insure that all of the oil galleries are clean. Sometimes they will tell you that a component that you bring to them needs to be discarded. This is huge. You don't want to spend a lot of time and money only to end up with a piece of junk because you started out not knowing that a major component was junk until you start it up. Once they see what you are starting with they will tell you what needs to be done to the components. They will tell you if you can re-use pistons or not. They will tell you what size over you need. Next if you will smart you will ask the shop to source your pistons for you. They buy pistons everyday. They have many sources. They will most likely save you a lot of money on them and if you let them source your parts you are assured that all the components will go together properly assuring a favorable outcome.

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NAPA?

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I am not aware of NAPA in my area having a machine shop. if you give me your town I will google and give you five possibilities.

I am not aware of NAPA in my area having a machine shop. if you give me your town I will google and give you five possibilities.

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North Western Minnesota Between Duluth and Fargo

This post was edited by jd2cyl1943 on 11/09/2022 at 04:22 pm.

(quoted from post at 17:19:02 11/08/22) I know when I'm beat. I'm only 14 years old and have very little experience. So I was wondering if any of you know of any companies that make good reproduced .045 or .090 aluminum pistons for a '43 John Deere B. Serial 138090

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Tractor pullers have a way of finding pistons .
I am willing to bet the cam and followers are worn out of spec .

(quoted from post at 17:45:06 11/09/22)

(quoted from post at 17:19:02 11/08/22) I know when I'm beat. I'm only 14 years old and have very little experience. So I was wondering if any of you know of any companies that make good reproduced .045 or .090 aluminum pistons for a '43 John Deere B. Serial 138090

Click to expand...

Tractor pullers have a way of finding pistons .
I am willing to bet the cam and followers are worn out of spec .

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I am a tractor puller and I have found pistons, sleeve kits, rings, bearing inserts, seals, etc. etc. Then I found out how these guys have long term relationships with suppliers who are not on line.

Here are five possibilities. I suggest that you talk to anyone in your area that you know of who does their own automotive, truck or tractor work to see who they recommend.



Midwest Engine Machine LLC
Duluth
732 E 4th St (218) 723-1651


Miller Mall Machine Shop
218-940-7303
1812 Maple Grove Rd
Duluth, MN 55811

Kramer and Moen Machine Co.
4110 W. Superior St. Duluth MN 55807
218-624-3611


Auto Value Duluth North
1812 Maple Grove Rd, Duluth, MN 55811
(218) 722-5056


Carleton Automotive machine
715 Carlton Ave, Cloquet, MN 55720
(218) 879-8773

Id suggest you measure what you got . ( you may be ok ) wont know till you measure.Compare to basic manuals recommended go ,no go
tolerance . You proceed the way the measurements say are best practices for success for that engine.

Dont skip the recommendation steps ,guessing cost three as much to correct , do it right the first time .

Several John Deere restoration books , read it , get one !

Your choice

I have [i:56ec6b13b0]How to Restore Your John Deere Two-Cylinder Tractor[/i:56ec6b13b0] by Spencer Yost

Just wondering are you keeping a log book of what you did on that day? Just a suggestion for interest conversation later on and reference.