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Narrow vs wide fronts?

O

Oliver 500 Wa

Member
I'll preface this by saying...

Despite owning a tractor for ~30 years....I have never learned..

What is the advantage to a narrow front end? I think I can understand some disadvantages, but there has to be good reasons for them.
 
Turn much sharper than wide front, so were very useful for cultivating back when folks were cultivating. Probably not much advantage now, except they turn easier if you don't have power steering.
 
First off, I've never been on a NF tractor. However, I like the wide stance that a WF offers. Many folks say that NF tractors are more stable, but wife's dad almost died one time when his tractor turned over and pinned him underneath. He was stuck there for several hours, and had permanent injuries from the accident.

That's not to say WF's are perfect, either. Lots of people have, for example, tied a rope or chain too high on the back (to pull a stump or.....) and and flipped their rig upside down, In that case, don't matter what front end you have.

My personal thought is, I would think NF tractors to be good for row crop farming, but WF tractors are, IMO, all around more stable. But again, I've never been on a NF before, so my thoughts mean squat. *lol*
 
(quoted from post at 11:12:32 11/28/17) Tighter turning radius. You can pack more tractors in your building or on a trailer.
Click to expand...
Easier to work on engine. No walking or climbing over axle but also nothing to stand on.
 
I have both wide and narrow front tractors and each have there good and bad points. I built a BA as a sickle bar mower machine and the narrow front makes if easy to get good square corners when cutting hay. But for a tractor with a loader I want a wide front so as TO BE MORE STABLE when the load is up high
 
Mount a cultivator on a NF and you can cultivate some really tall corn. The wide front axle sits too low to cultivate tall corn. You also can't mount a corn picker on a wide row tractor.
AaronSEIA
 
When the wheel width is needed to be changed like when cultivating or plowing sometimes only the rear wheels need to be changed on a NF tractor.Turning radius is sharper, vision is better
for the operator,with dual front wheels its more likely the front will ride over a hole rather then go in it.I really like a NF in the woods much easier to get around with.I prefer a WF
in the snow or mud as a NF will pack up easily.For a lot of things either suits me fine.Oddly its people that have never really used a NF that are scared of them.I've known about an equal number of people get killed or butchered up on NF and WF tractors usually doing something reckless or stupid was the base cause in most cases on both.
 
As many have stated you don't have to move the wheels out in the front when switching over to cultivation, but a narrow front end in my opinion also steered better when making hard turns at the end of rows. We started out with an old CA wide to plow tobacco but picked up a narrow front the next year and it was so much easier to turn.
 
A narrow front is a lot more maneuverable and easier to back up wagons with.

Main advantages to a wide front are more stability and can go through mud and snow easier.
 
Narrow front ends were popular on row crop tractors between about 1930 to about 1970. Power steering, shorter turning wide front ends, patent expiration on the 3 point hitch, chemical weed cultivation, and self propelled combines eliminated most of the demand for narrow front ends by 1970.

Maybe a more current topic would be: front wheel assist vs rear wheel drive.
 
Agree with [b:654c4848f0]old[/b:654c4848f0] that "[i:654c4848f0]the narrow front makes it easy to get good square corners when cutting hay.[/i:654c4848f0]"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qLO04MzQTxs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The wide front makes it easier to move from side to side without driving on the wind row.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BR7VIjxel0g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Can't add much to what has already been said
but having both is nice. They have
advantages and disadvantages over each
other.
a179211.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 12:38:26 11/28/17)
Maybe a more current topic would be: front wheel assist vs rear wheel drive.
Click to expand...
He's on YesterdaysTractors, yet he wants a more [i:2f8ba2cdc6]current[/i:2f8ba2cdc6] topic. BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-hiddie-ho-HA!! :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist. :wink:
 
When baling heavy hay a NF is easier to maneuver around bales on the ground.

When it comes to grass hay I've found the windrow run over by the tractor cures faster. So I started mowing with a Haybine using a narrow front tractor.
 
A wide front end works a lot better in snow and mud. A narrow front end can act like a plow in the right conditions.
 
Lots of enlightening answers, Thanks!

I had wondered if there was maybe a regional preference too. Around my area, I rarely (never?) see a narrow front except at a show. As far as old tractors still being used I don't recall seeing any narrow fronts.
 
A wide front tractor is much easier to
plow with. You just hug the furrow with
your front, right tire and it nearly
steers itself.
You can park two narrow front tractors in
a one car garage. Not so with a WF.
Best thing about a NF tractor is if your
rear tires are on backwards no one can
tell from your tire tracks.
a179214.jpg
 
A team of 2510's!!! That takes me back. Dad bought a new one spring of 1966. Uncle bought one the next year. One narrow, one wide. They operated as a team for many years pulling beans, and pulling a pair of NH bale wagons.
 
Back in the day a NFE equipped tractor was a way to lower the selling price so a farmer could afford to buy a tractor. A hundred or so dollars today is no big deal but trying to get a farmer to part with an extra 100 dollars for a wide front in 1948 took a lot of convincing. Then as others have stated equipment was designed to take advantage of the NFE in terms of quicker mounting such as with cultivators and corn pickers. In the first few decades of the existence of the small gas powered tractor a low cost tractor with a minimum of features was the key to marketing tractors. As the remaining farmers from a declining number of individual farms grew more affluent they sought more features such as more transmission speeds, live PTO, and hydraulics. Fast forward to the 1970's farmers wanted an increasing number of clutch-free speeds, closed cab with environmental control, and more responsive hydraulics. Along with these desires was the want of an front end that did not run over a hay windrow and fewer traffic lanes in row crops. Mechanical front wheel drive was being increasingly demanded for tractors and the front drive off of a Jeep or other pickup made a sound choice to develop a prototype for a tractor which had a lot of characteristics utilized from a tractor wide front end.
 
I've had the wf for several years now. The NF I picked up at an auction couple months ago. It went fairly cheap but had a rougher life than I thought. Needs quite a bit more work than I was planning on.
 
I don't know about "marketing", but when my brother and I were growing up on the farm, we were REQUIRED to back a 4 wheeled hay wagon down a 15 ft wide path, in a pole barn to unload hay. It could not be more
than 6 inches away from the stack and it best not take very long to do it! Dad's philosophy was": you cant say you can drive a tractor until you can back a 4 wheel wagon at least that far.....then he
proceeded to show us.... Lots of years later he obtained a wide front end tractor.....and it was indeed harder to do. Just sayin'.
 
I guess they're scrap now, but I've still got the brackets which bolt to the front of the tractor for the "drive in" cultivator. Also have the little extra lift arms which go on the rear rockshaft for front lift.
 
Nice pair of tractors. I have a 2510 diesel narrow front with a roll guard and canopy and a 2520 diesel wide front with roll guard and canopy. My narrow front tractors are my favorites as I like how they handle. Tom
 
Most of the guys answered it. Years ago In flat land row crop country the wheel width needed to be set out for 40” or 38” rows for planting, cultivating and corn picking but the wheels needed to be set in narrow to pull a 2 bottom plow, and EVERYTHING was plowed back then. A wide front end meant that much more work changing wheel width. A tractor with a mounted corn picker needed a narrow front end. A front mounted cultivator was easier to put on and take off with a narrow front. Wide fronts were found in hilly row crop country because of stability.
 
(quoted from post at 11:08:48 11/28/17) I'll preface this by saying...

Despite owning a tractor for ~30 years....I have never learned..

What is the advantage to a narrow front end? I think I can understand some disadvantages, but there has to be good reasons for them.
Click to expand...

No tie rods to replace!
 
Have had a single front wheel on a Super M that was almost like having power steering. You could also turn it nearly 90 degrees and darn near pivot on the inside wheel if you needed really close maneuvering.

For making round hay I like the wide front; the tractor doesn't have to walk on the windrow.
 
Nobody here mentioned that you get a better ride out of a wide front. With the wheels spread out it is far less likely that you will hit the same bump with both wheels, so the effect of the bump is cut in half.

Most of your stability comes from the REAR wheels, though. Remember, wide fronts pivot in the center and the tractor can roll over quite a ways before the wide front can catch, and by then it's too late. The additional stability you gain from having a wide front is mostly mental.
 
(quoted from post at 11:16:44 11/28/17) First off, I've never been on a NF tractor. However, I like the wide stance that a WF offers. Many folks say that NF tractors are more stable, but wife's dad almost died one time when his tractor turned over and pinned him underneath. He was stuck there for several hours, and had permanent injuries from the accident.

That's not to say WF's are perfect, either. Lots of people have, for example, tied a rope or chain too high on the back (to pull a stump or.....) and and flipped their rig upside down, In that case, don't matter what front end you have.

My personal thought is, I would think NF tractors to be good for row crop farming, but WF tractors are, IMO, all around more stable. But again, I've never been on a NF before, so my thoughts mean squat. *lol*
Click to expand...

KCM, I have never seen any reference to anyone claiming that a narrow front tractor is more stable than a wide front. What I have seen is many arguments that it is possible to drive and work with a narrow front tractor without tipping it over. Many people insist that narrow front tractors are inherently very dangerous and are far more likely to upset.
 
(quoted from post at 14:28:40 11/28/17) When baling heavy hay a NF is easier to maneuver around bales on the ground.

When it comes to grass hay I've found the windrow run over by the tractor cures faster. So I started mowing with a Haybine using a narrow front tractor.
Click to expand...

Andy, that is very interesting. I have never come across anything like that. Most of us fluff our hay to make it dry better but you compress it? Could you explain how you measured the difference?
 
Can you buy a new tractor with a narrow front end? If there was a market for them or they were cheaper to build the manufactures would be pushing them.
 
Yep,I remember when a neighbor traded his Ford 8N off on an Oliver Super 77 with a wide front. It was just about unheard of around here. Then Carl Allen came up with a John Deere A with a wide front somewhere.
 
They have done studies that prove that the biggest stability problems with a NF tractor is [b:642edb533a]down hill with something pushing the tractor[/b:642edb533a]. That situation killed a guy I know a few years ago. He had been around tractors all his life. Owned a business in town and did a little hobby farming too. He was 70. On a paved road, NF Farmall M, square baler and partially filled hay rack. Going down hill had to make a turn onto another road. Started the turn and the weight of the baler and wagon did the rest.

But I can remember well my dad and several other local farmers going on about how unsafe NF tractors were. I was shown a place where a guy died rolling a NF tractor on a neighbors farm. The hillside in question? Really would only be safe for a crawler. The owner had farmed it for years, first with horses then a JD B. That hill wasn't a question of "if" you would tip a tractor but "when" you would tip a tractor.

Rick
 
I think it was an area think about wide front ends. We had a lot of Fords & Ferguson as well Allis Chalmers in the 50s. Then in the 60s we started seeing
IH,JD,and MM with wide front ends and now you don't see any of the farmers that use narrow front ends.
 
Wide front ends work great for raking alfalfa hay. The narrow has a tendency to knock some leaves off from running over it.
 
1. much easier to maneuver in tight spots like the barn.
2. takes up less space.
3. can't cut as sharp in road gear with narrow front.
4. nearly all turn overs are from hooking to a load incorrectly, not flipping sideways.
5. narrow front is more difficult to steer out of a rut.
Ellis
 
(quoted from post at 05:52:27 11/29/17)
(quoted from post at 14:28:40 11/28/17) When baling heavy hay a NF is easier to maneuver around bales on the ground.

When it comes to grass hay I've found the windrow run over by the tractor cures faster. So I started mowing with a Haybine using a narrow front tractor.
Click to expand...

Andy, that is very interesting. I have never come across anything like that. Most of us fluff our hay to make it dry better but you compress it? Could you explain how you measured the difference?
Click to expand...

I think the idea is that the weight of the tractor crushing the hay is beneficial to some extent. I was reluctant to use a NF with a haybine or Tedder, but invoked the run what you got rule...

When we are haying, there’s always some parts of the windrow getting smashed with a tractor tire, like in turns. I tedded and raked with our NF 756 and couldn’t tell that the front wheels did any harm. OTOH - mashing the hay into wet ground is probably not a good idea and tedding here is still a must. YMMV
 
Went through tractor safety back in 82 and the instructor had some numbers on that and they showed that most accidents were from tipping over backwards not sideways.
 
I am new here. I've spent countless hours reading this forum before joining, and it looks like a goldmine of information. I'm glad it exists.

I will preface this by saying I am new to tractors. I am looking to buy my first tractor. Intended use is brush hog and mow approximately 8 acres, farm personal vegetable plot of maybe an acre, work in and out of woods for trees/logs, building material moving (gravel, lumber, etc), and eventually small-scale commercial farming of one or two crops (not yet chosen). I am in the Florida panhandle near Marianna. Land is pretty much flat, with very gentle slopes. I'm looking for one tractor to start with for general to cover these needs. I understand there are different uses for different tractors and visa versa. I have always loved the old tractors, and it seems to me I should be aiming for something between 40-50HP, to cover all bases for now.

My biggest question/concern is narrow vs. front end. I have read numerous posts about this, and I am not pro or anti either. My concern is the soil. I cannot find an answer anywhere on this. With sandy soil (not straight-up sand, but sandy soil) in Florida, will a narrow front end work well? I envision it digging into this soil and getting bogged down, and a wide front end working better. Can anyone shed light on this? If a narrow front end will do fine, even after plowing and turning the soil, then i will likely get one, as the tractors I gravitate toward tend to be NFE and WFE is much harder to find.

I've been considering Farmall/IH almost exclusively, as I just personally like the look more than others. 300, 400, 460, M. Can anyone help me out?

Thank you
 
The additional stability you gain from having a wide front is mostly mentatl.[/quote]


Nope, there is a stability difference.
On an nf tractor, the tracor sits on a triangle formed by the three wheels. That triangle is on the ground. Everytime the tractor center of gravity vector goes outside of this triangle, the tractor tips over.
The center of gravity is normally at tractor belly height or slightly higher and in the middle plane if the tractor. Lateral forces due to rapid tirning or slopes will tend to move the gravity force direction out of the triangle.

That triangle also exist on a wf tractor but is not on the ground. The rear edge of the triangle is formed by the two rear wheels soil points and is at the ground level and the front point is the pivot pin, and is at pin level.

That is why a tractor with a raised pivot pin, would feel more stable than a tracor with a lower pivot pin.

This post was edited by fdt860 on 10/04/2022 at 09:11 pm.
 
When I saw this I figured someone dredged up an old thread.

I see you're new to this forum, and this is a pretty typical newbie mistake.

When you have a question, ALWAYS start a new thread. It's easy. Just hit the "new topic" button in the top left.

Reason being, is people will not look at the date on an old thread, see it's an old thread, and look for the new posts. They will read the first post, and answer that. Your question will be completely ignored.

It's already happened. The only post in this thread after yours appears to be in response to something I wrote FIVE YEARS AGO.

When reading threads, look at the dates before you respond. Generally refrain from responding to threads that are much more than a week old, UNLESS you started the thread and are providing an update to an issue you had.
 
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