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Waterwheel Transplanter

S

SweetHollow

New User
Hi all - New here so this is my first post.. and I tried searching but no hits.

Anyway- I am looking for a new to me tractor. I run a 5 acre mixed vegetable farm in Idaho. I recently picked up a waterwheel transplanter and now need some new machinery to lift/pull it. It is around 2000lbs when full of water so the rear arms need to be able to lift that. Also I will be needing to drive slowly (.5mph), so a creeper gear is needed. I have also been told to look into hydrostatic transmissions but I am a little confused if this automatically allows me to drive at the desired speed. And finally the wheel spacing is important- I want to be able to transplant 3 rows while straddling this with the tractor so 48" between the insides of the tires is needed.

Please let me know what ideas you may have! Thanks!
 
Buy a Hydro that is in very good condition and you will not regret it. IH models a Hydro 70 would do the job if it is weighted in the front. A large frame hydro would be even better. Not sure what
your budget is.
 
Look for an International Hydro. That transplanter is going to be heavy so you will need a bigger tractor than you acctually need for your number of acres.A smaller more appropriate size tractor may not be
able to handle the transplanter. I would recomend a Hydro70(656 hydro is the same).Not sure if a 544 or Hydro 84 would handle that. Later,you may want to look into a farmall Cub or similar for the close up
vegatable work.
 
I own an IH826Hydro. it simply cant be beat for ultra slow speeds,orinfinitely variable speeds. These are row crop tractors with adjustable wheel tread widths.BTW,the 826 will do every thing of the smaller models,and more. Plus,it also has a dual speed PTO(540/1000)
 
Diesel is prefered.Diesels are much more common.But there is nothing wrong with a gas tractor.It will serve just as well.Only thing is it will use a bit more fuel. But your operation isnt big enough that it
will make any difference.If you find the right tractor with a gas engine,buy it and put it to work.
 
Should be able to get something for that. But,spend a bit more if you have to for the right tractor. You wont regret it.
 
Thoughts? Low hours, but has been sitting for awhile
mvphoto94874.png



This post was edited by SweetHollow on 07/20/2022 at 07:24 am.
 
Glancing at water wheel transplanters, it does not look like
they are PTO driven. Is that right? If they are not PTO
driven, then cant you just throttle back in a low gear to get
.5 MPH? Otherwise, hydrostatic drive is a great solution,
but as you mention, knowing & controlling a precise ground
speed can be an issue. But there are many solutions for that
issue too. The least expensive is to install a basic bike
computer, that uses a magnetic pick up on one tire. Also
apps are available for your phone, but Im uncertain how
accurate they are at slow speeds. There are also full
featured products available for monitoring and controlling
ag machinery, but based on your budget comment, Im
thinking those might be a bit pricey.
 
correct they are not pro driven. Yes that is where my confusion stems from. Creeper gear vs throttling down in low..?
 
I think with the wheel spacing you want you will have trouble with getting that in a utility models since they are limited to the wheels being dished in or out and then the width of the tire. You will not want your tires set at much less than the middle of the rows, outside of what you plant. If you are planting 30 inch rows then you will need about 120 inch wide tire setting. This is if I understood you right. So you will have to either plant rows wider than your tractor tires or plant just 2 rows unless you find a wide model or one with the long axles. This will then add increased strain on the housings. SO I think you need to look for something in the much bigger than you planned on size like a 4430Deere or 1066 IH for the axles capacity along with the tread width you are looking for. If your transplanter is ground driven you could use less throttle to obtain your slower speed for operation. More gears will also help with getting better gearing for slow speeds and close speeds. I would tend to skip over the IH tractors as the open center hydraulics with low volume pumps limit your hydraulic abilities for other vegetable tools that require hydraulic driven equipment for harvesting and such. Yes I did see the 48 inch deal. that would mean you are going to plant 12 inch rows. That will be problematic for weed work like cultivating or getting narrow enough tires to fit the rows. It would however allow you to use a more standard width tractor tire setting. 48 inches will need to include the tire width to get down the rows or about a 60 inch width centers. You're in ID look at some of the tater rows and equipment for tread width for what I'm saying.
 
A lot of tractors will not idle down that slow. If they do,they may not have enough power to funtion properly.Plus,if you ever get a pto powered implement,idle speed wont cut it. The engine needs to run at rated speeds.The IH hydros have seperate speedometers.Im my experiences with a transplanter,exact MPH isnt the issue. The issue is to go slow enough that the workers can place the plants into the fingers.That big transplanter will be heavy with water,and human riders,plus the plants. Couple of years ago hemp was big here. Everybody got into it.Huge 'pie in the sky' profits. Most went broke.There was a lot of equipment(transplanters....)sold. Most is on the market today.A friend went big. Bought a 3 row transplanter. His JD4440 was borderline.He said it squatted the tires,he had to add another 1000 lbs of front wt to the 1200 lbs already there.A lot of medium(mostly Kubota) tractors were sold with one row machines.So,IMHO,you need to look for a 70-90 horse tractor. IH656H;Hydro 70;826H would be top choice.But,Kubota has some fantastic finance plans. They offer several models that would probably work for you. Go see your nearest Kubota dealer.
 
You can get a 10/15 year old L series Kubota in the 30HP range that would carry the unit and have
indefinite speed without any harm. Probably cost you 12 thousand or so in a 4 wheel drive if you
can find one without a loader. L3400, L3410, 3720 ect.
 
For 3 rows,he will want to straddle the middle,and let each outside row be outside the tractors wkeels.By setting the tractor at 60c/c that objective will be accomplished. Asumeing the top center of each bed is 5ft(60inches)
 
I use an International 544 hydro to pull a 1 row water wheel transplanted. It has a 100 gallon water
tank. I have 5 100 lb suitcase weights on the front. Before I added the weight it was a little light on
the front. I can drive slow enough that the planters are telling me to speed up even on double rows of
peppers on one foot spacing. Uses a lot of water. Before I had the 544 I used a CIH 885. With lowest
gear possible and the engine idling it was too fast for peppers at times. Kept the planters alert. I am
only planting one row at a time. Total weight with the water full is 1600 to 2000 lbs. There are pull
type water wheel transplanters and maybe kits to convert 3 point ones to pull type. Doesn't take much
power to pull them. I'll try to add links to some videos.
Untitled URL Link
 
If the hydro is good it would be excellent. The front bucket would add good counter weight for the
transplanted. I was looking for 656 hydro or hydro 70 before I bought my 544 hydro
 
My rows are 6 foot center to center approximately or as accurate as I can lay the plastic. Try to get as narrow a tire as you can that will still give you enough flotation.
 
My Long R9500 would work,its Landini built,barely moves in the lowest gear,98 HP so it'll handle 2000 lbs no problem.They sell cheap sometimes paid $900 for mine.
 
I think hydro 84 would be very good. They even came with fwa and cab options. I believe same frame as CIH 885 which was plenty big enough. But I think they are on the rare side , at least around me, and probably more than your budget for a good one.
 
While you are likely correct for looking for a machine with a
creeper function, that will severely limit your available
tractors. Given your budget, perhaps something with a
decent low first. For example, our Ford 4000 SU will go 1.1
MPH at rated speed in first low. Id think as long as there
wasnt too much drawbar (pulling) load, it could handle a
planter at 1/2 of rated engine speed. Frankly, most any
tractor will just spin the tires at engine rated speed under
load in their lowest gear. You can reference
Tractordata.com to see what every tractor will travel in their
lowest gears. Good luck.
 
I needed a hydrostatic drive to go slow enough to plant strawberries and other crops that are in double rows at one foot or less
spacing. I got a MX5400 for 60 payments of $500 brand new. works great, but it a little light on the front end with a tank full
of water in the setter and two big people in the setter seats. Need to add front end weights.
 
(quoted from post at 10:33:38 07/20/22) If the hydro is good it would be excellent. The front bucket would add good counter weight for the
transplanted. I was looking for 656 hydro or hydro 70 before I bought my 544 hydro
Click to expand...
How do I know if the hydro is good exactly?
 
I was confronted with how big of a tractor and ground speed. Many tractors big enough to lift had too high of ground speed.
First consider a tractor's lift capacity. In general the lift capacity Spec is for 24 behind the lift balls. Much of the planter extends far behind the lift arms. I talked to the manufacture of a water wheel with a 165 gallon tank. A lift capacity of 3500 lbs was recommended.
I have a tractor with a minimum ground speed at full throttle of 0.2 MPH. Ground speed is good, but a loaded water water wheel with tank would weigh as much or more than my tractor.
Put a tongue on the water wheel giving a tongue weight of just a few hundred lbs. Still need to design a lift for the wheels. Hydraulic, electric linear actuator, manual or cable system.
Water weighs about 8.3 lbs/Gal. Weight can be reduced by not filling the tank. Just fill to the amount needed or what your tractor 3-Pt will handle.
For tractor ground speed, hydrostat is good. Many gear drive compact utility tractors with a HI-LO, are rated at 0.8 MPH minimum at full throttle.
K-Mo

cvphoto131061.jpg
 
Mine was checked out by an IH mechanic and even though the tractor was old it had less than 900 hours. I
passed on a 656 hydro that had loud whine while it was operating. Short of having a knowledgeable mechanic
check it out I would drive it until it got warm and operate it under load to make sure it doesn't slip or
jerk.
 
(quoted from post at 08:02:33 07/21/22) Mine was checked out by an IH mechanic and even though the tractor was old it had less than 900 hours. I
passed on a 656 hydro that had loud whine while it was operating. Short of having a knowledgeable mechanic
check it out I would drive it until it got warm and operate it under load to make sure it doesn't slip or
jerk.
Click to expand...
Found a local International mechanic with 30+ years in the industry to stop over last night.. He said it was in pretty good shape all around. A few small leaks and seals to replace, faded paint and small electrical issues from sitting out, but overall it ran great.
 
Got this 656 checked out and it sounds like its pretty solid. Is there a difference in the utility model and row crop model?
 

Got the 656 and now sizing everything up. I am also hoping to use this with a 3pt seeder like a Jang or something for crops like baby greens and radish, ect. I am wondering about compaction though as this thing is heavy. What are the do's and don'ts? Thanks!
 
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