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The nightmare that modern tractors can be

Bruce from Can.

Bruce from Can.

Well-known Member
Location
Woodville, Ontario, Canada
So my Kubota tractor suddenly stopped forward motion as my son was driving it across the yard. An alarm went off, and it started throwing codes up on the dash. And the tractor ran rough. When it was shut off, didnt want to restart very well, and rattled and ran roughly. To get it out of the way, you let up the clutch pedal and it would move about 6 feet a stop and run really poorly for a while then smooth out some. Then again try moving, 6 more feet and stopped again. I repeated this till tractor was out of the way. Called the dealership, they sent out a service man. 3 different codes, cam sensor, crankshaft sensor and transmission sensor were all reasons for the codes. Serviceman thought maybe the camshaft sensor might need to be replaced, swapped it out, no change, so he put the old original sensor back, and cleaned it with contact cleaner. Sprayed contact cleaner into the crankshaft sensor as well. Restarted the tractor, ran fine, codes gone.
The nightmare of new tractors is the computerized control systems. That is what I like about my old 1030 and 930 Case tractors, all mechanical, dont even need a battery to make those tractors run. And the engine doesnt have to talk to the transmission.
 
todays engineers are Drunk on electronics,,newer equipment is very undependable because of it,,,I wish they would sober up and go back to building a simple durable system...
 
You are lucky that you could get someone out to look at it. We don't have a Kubota Dealer within 75 miles and they can't keep a good mechanic. I had a JLG telehandler in the shop a couple of weeks ago with a John Deere Powertech engine in it. I went through the usual checks as far as I could go. I do not have the diagnostics for the computer engines, They only cost around 10 Grand. I could never pay for them in a one man shop at my age. I called the dealer, they sent someone out and scanned the thing, went through the same checks that I had already done. He said, no codes present, don't see anything really wrong with it, could be the Injection Pump. He charged $250.00 for his expertise. Took the pump and injectors off and sent them 125 miles away to the rebuilder. He kept it 3 weeks and decided it couldn't be rebuilt. $3000.00 dollars later for a new pump and injectors the machine runs fine. I deal with this on a day to day basis and it only gets worse.
 
I agree its a nightmare. Bad thing is it's hard to find a tech that can work on 1960's stuff. I'm guessing 90 to a 100 years ago, the old timers said the same thing about a magneto vs the simplicity of a horse.
 
(quoted from post at 04:30:07 06/21/22) And the engine doesnt have to talk to the transmission.
Click to expand...

Yeah, right? I never know what they're saying about me! :shock:

Sorry Bruce, you're not gonna find a lot of sympathy from this knucklehead. A beautiful wife who keeps you up to your neck in homemade pies, barn full of cows (well, not sure how full anymore), and your new 'bota. Yep, life is rough. *lol*

Sorry Bruce, but you MUST know I don't pick on you very often. Today's my day. :mrgreen:
 
A BIG AMEN.
Our son uses tractors that are old enough not to have a lot of electronics.
He and his help can work on them themselves.
And a couple of his JD tractors are huge with lots of HP.
Obviously the electronics are not necessary to have a high HP tractor that does the job.
 
That's been my biggest fear with my my Kubota 2018 6060. So far so good but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I already went through that with my 2012 Kubota sensor going bad and shutting me down at an inopportune time.
 
(quoted from post at 05:06:16 06/21/22) I think Case should make the 930 and 1030's again. I wonder how they would sell?????? Bill
Click to expand...

Poorly. For one thing they would be illegal as he** to sell in North America due to the complete lack of emissions controls and safety features. For another thing they lack the creature comforts that everyone wants these days.

Once you brought them up to date to meet modern emissions and safety standards, and added the features the people have come to expect on a tractor, you'd have a Kubota.

The thing about this is, modern tractors are statistically more reliable than tractors of the past. That's saying something considering how exponentially more complex modern tractors are.

Your main complaint is that you can't fix it yourself if it breaks down. Most people can't fix something as simple as a Farmall M when it breaks down.
 
Sort of similar to old tractor injection pump problems these days, they wont even do basic diagnosis. Dealer removes from tractor, sends it 300 miles away to pump shop, you get it back with a 2000$ bill saying they changed 20$ O-ring or a 500$ bill and note that the pump is junk.
 

I've always wondered why they insist on putting all this electronic stuff in farm tractors. It's obvious, just by the work they do, that it will be impossible to keep the dirt and dust from getting in there and messing things up. It's not like a car which spends most of its life on paved roads. Tractors are made to work in the dirt.

Even cars are not immune from this. When I was a rural mail carrier, I had more than one occasion where my power windows would quit working due to dust from the gravel roads getting into the switches. How much worse would that be in a farm tractor?
 
Got a feeling you haven't heard the last of this.

What was on the sensor that needed cleaning? Metal filings? Why and where? If that was the case, might want to catch the next oil change, cut open the filter, do an oil analysis.

And did cleaning really fix it, or was there a connection problem, bad sensor and disturbing it made for a temporary fix?

Time will tell...
 
No ! My main complaint is that a tractor with only
2,100 hours on it should not shut down just driving
across the yard! This darn thing cost twice as much as
I paid for my first farm, and I expect it to work reliably
for at least 5,000 hours, before Gremlins take over.
 
Old is always looked at as being more reliable. Some were, some weren't . IH did a little workup back maybe in the 70's or so about what it would cost to build a F 20 Farmall then. Well, it cost a whole lot more than the present tractor of the day due to advancements in both labor required modern mtg methods. Just what we were told. No facts to back it up.
 
Based on what we have seen the last couple months in Ukraine with the stolen tractors, is it possible that these newest tractors and combines could be remotely hacked and shut down by terrorists? Right before harvest season?
 
My 2010 pickup threw codes and went into limp mode, 1500 rpm.

I said happened when I went through a weird snow squall as a semi went by.

Replaced throttle body, cam sensors.

Acted up again 3 weeks later, I said it was out over night and snowed on it.

Replaced the cam sensors again under warranty, and throttle.

Acted up 4 weeks later, I went to a different shade tree mechanic, I said I did go through a puddle.

He replaced a wire/ control, but he said it actually start working ok on its own, it was in his heated shop 2 days before he got to it.

It add up again in 3 weeks, i drove through a puddle and it limped immediately. Had had to drive home 20 miles at 1500 rpm, about 20mph. When I got home I restarted it and it ran ok.. He said hum, let me keep it and drive it, see what turns up.

Its terrible when it doesnt break, but can go out on you at any time, you cant depend on it.......

He called a week later, said he think he figured it out.

A small rock had gone through the plastic fender liner, and when you drove through water it would spray water directly up into a computer brick.

When it dried out it was ok again. He replaced the inner fender and been fine for years again.

Paul
 
Depends on how far back you want to go I guess. I have a neighbor who has a 4 year old Deere 7 something (I can't keep up with models anymore) that has had constant electronic gremlins. He says he'd gladly have a new 4455 like he bought in 1989, with autosteer and GPS the only additions. Never had any problems with that tractor in the 10 years he owned it and laments that he traded it off.
 
Maybe someday computerized tractors will be better. It would be fantastic if they could diagnose their problems more accurately. In this case it was narrowed down to three sensors. Not bad I guess, but still not a home-run.

Their biggest down side is when they fail most of us are dead in the water. Seems like a spare tractor is pretty handy these days. In my case, an old one that still gets the job done.
 
Modern computerized tractors are terrific but are intended to be operated by people smarter than the tractors. Take a look at South Main Auto youtube channel and watch Eric diagnose every imaginable computer error. His thought processes are like magic with the computers. Almost like he speaks binary. The computers are meant to be managed and repaired by people who are not intimidated.
 
There most likely only so many ways to employ simple tech and if an engineer is not working on a new angle i.e. electronics he is
most likely out of a job. The world in general is going in the wrong direction. Humans cannot handle the technology they have to this point never mind what will be coming in the next 20 years. I still think that driverless vehicles will lead to all sorts of problems including fatalities before the engineers get the bugs out of it.
 
(quoted from post at 08:18:41 06/21/22) Modern computerized tractors are terrific but are intended to be operated by people smarter than the tractors. Take a look at South Main Auto youtube channel and watch Eric diagnose every imaginable computer error. His thought processes are like magic with the computers. Almost like he speaks binary. The computers are meant to be managed and repaired by people who are not intimidated.
Click to expand...
ou are right about south main auto. He doesnt fire the parts cannon. He diagnoses the problem and fixes it.
 
If I was diagnosing those 3 at the same time codes, I would suspect a common ground wire/connection issue rather than a sensor first. Usually fault code trees (the diagnostic routine) ask what other codes are active and gives you a path to follow for diagnostics, depending on which all codes are active. If just a single code, I would lean towards a sensor. Mark.
 
friend of mine has a newer Kubota that had major engine problem new engine solved that problem dealer said we can rebuild it get you some money for it.
EPA said hold on that engine is pre deff you can not rebuild drill holes in block so it can not be rebuilt.
Ted said well I can kiss my but goodby again
 


Has anyone thought of blaming voters who gave the EPA the power to enact Tier III and Tier IV emissions . With Tier V to follow.
The plan is to force industry and transportation to use something other than diesel fuel or gasoline .
 
I can't stand being within 100 feet of the old stinky diesel. I
would instantly get a splitting headache..

If an old diesel truck is in front of me on the road. I have to
back off a quarter of a mile to get out of the smell.

I'm just the opposite. I wouldn't have a Kubota if it weren't
for improved air standards..

I love my Kubota.

Just wondering is cleaning the cam sensor part of maintenance?
 
It not just emmissions... hydraulics, PTO, transmissions all have computer involvement. It's kind of a nightmare all around. Any of it, including the emmision stuff would be OK if it worked longterm.
 
DriverED vehicles lead to a significant number of fatalities already. Yet everyone thinks that's perfectly okay. They may give lip service to it not being okay, but they do nothing about it.

If even one person dies in a driverless vehicle, regardless of how much the overall death count from traffic accidents may drop due to driverless vehicles, regardless of how unavoidable the accident may have been, you will ALWAYS criticize the driverless vehicle and the people that designed it.

Expecting perfection from imperfect beings, from people who believe that there is but one perfect being... It boggles the mind.
 
BUT the on board diagnosis did tell you in general where the problem was. There is no question the problems are there with all this newer electrical computerized machinery , key is having good help that knows how to service it. Glad they got you going.
 
Dont get me wrong, this kind of thing isnt just a Kubota problem, its a problem with all diesel powered trucks and tractors that have computer controlled systems for air, fuel and emissions. Irritates me that the most reliable type of engine, which was completely non reliant on electronics, and made them completely dependent. I know government rules have been the main driver, but the equipment that has been installed to make diesel more environmentally friendly, has made the same less owner friendly.
 
If I recall Grandpa had an old F250 gassers that had crankshaft sensor issues.

Might have been a bad connection.
 
The mechanic that works on my tractors is a mechanic at a dealership trained to work on the new tractors and he told me that no way would he buy a new tractor just too expensive to keep running.
 
If it did not need any new parts and only needed a set of electrical connections cleaned that does not sound all that bad for a repair. Far simpler than cleaning a dirty carburetor or a shorted out distributor. The service call was probably the most expensive item. Is cleaning electrical contacts now part of the routine service procedures (LOL)?
 
It is still a cost/benefit balance. Look at it from the viewpoint of the average person: in the US 330 million people benefit from clean air and clean water while only 1/4 million farmers complain that they make a little less much money if they have to comply with the clean air and clean water regulations (while the rest of the country continues to pay to subsidizes those same farms). That is a 1320 to one ratio.

In the long run arguing that other people don't need/deserve safe clean air or safe clean water will continue to be a loosing battle.
 
Way too much computer controlled stuff monitored by little wires from delicate sensors on the new stuff! People with new stuff will finally give up and go back to horses.
 
I met a man who rode a goldwing.
I found out he was a Harley Mechanic.
I asked him why he doesn't ride Harleys?
He laughed and said the goldwing doesn't break down as often.

My Kawasaki mule didn't idle right. Kawasaki mechanics had no clue how to fix it.

It took me 5 years before I discovered the secondary TPS wasn't set up properly at
the factory.

Sometimes we have to learn new things if we want modern equipment, cars, trucks and tractors.
 
Yep latest electonic tractors are great. Farmer east of us finished discing field, drove tractor to fuel tank and filled. Parked tractor and disc in front of shop. Approach to shop slopped toward shop. Computers behind seat started fire, which melted fuel tank, fuel flowed into shop, burned shop to ground as well as tractor.
 
The old tractors can be a nightmare too. I was driving a 59 case tractor a week ago and it suddenly died in it tracts and is still there. Most of the problem is I'm busy with work but it's never been dependable. Still I will be able to work on it where a modern tractor would probably need a computer tech.
 

Talking of emissions. It is debatable whether farm tractors are of a significant number to warrant pollution controls which the poster references. In the Corn Belt some estimate that 300,000 producers of corn /soybeans are operating to produce 90 percent of those commodities that are marketed large scale. There are 276 millions vehicles registered in the U S. 300,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to 276 million vehicles adding to air pollution on highways. Add to that farmers are putting plants in the ground that absorb huge amounts of carbon dioxide in the summer when pollution is highest. Maybe farm tractors should have been exempted from pollution controls on their engines since they are a miniscule number contributing to air pollution. If anything they should get credit for reducing air pollution thru planting of row crops, hay and small grains.
 
(quoted from post at 23:56:26 06/21/22)
Talking of emissions. It is debatable whether farm tractors are of a significant number to warrant pollution controls which the poster references. In the Corn Belt some estimate that 300,000 producers of corn /soybeans are operating to produce 90 percent of those commodities that are marketed large scale. There are 276 millions vehicles registered in the U S. 300,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to 276 million vehicles adding to air pollution on highways. Add to that farmers are putting plants in the ground that absorb huge amounts of carbon dioxide in the summer when pollution is highest. Maybe farm tractors should have been exempted from pollution controls on their engines since they are a miniscule number contributing to air pollution. If anything they should get credit for reducing air pollution thru planting of row crops, hay and small grains.
Click to expand...

There is no excuse for making engines more than Tier I federally and Tier II in California .
 
I guess one of the big differences between a 63 year old tractor and a 3 year old tractor stopping in its tracks is, the 63 year old tractor could have 1-20,000 engine hours. And also could have no known history of service or repair history. For a tractor 63 years old to die on the job shouldnt come as any surprise, but when a tractor with 2,100 hours just stops, it is disappointing. You know the timing gears arent worn off, or the lobs are worn off of the cam shaft from thousands of hours of duty time.
 
When the Clean Air Act was enacted pollution was measured in parts per million (ppm). Now, we have equipment that measures
pollution in parts per quadrillion. The zealots will never be satisfied. Even if they are able to capture that one quadrillionth.
I'm for taking them out and shooting them.
 
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