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Farmall H 12 volt live hydraulic starter whirring and oi

S

SoulFate15

New User
Hey everyone, first post here. I recently Bought a farmall H that that has been converted over to 12 V with live hydraulics. When I bought the H it wasn't running and the the crank pulley was stuck. I freed up the crank pulley several days back and and sprayed some WD40 in the spark plug holes to hopefully loosen up any rust that might be in there. The next day I did a compression test on all 4 cylinders and they were all 4 at about a 105 to a 110. I now have spark to the engine and I have fuel to the engine but I'm not 100% sure I'm in time as it sputters and backfires and still won't run. When starting the engine After about 3 seconds the engine will stop turning and the starter will whir. I've also noticed that oil is spewing up out of the air stack. I have checked and I don't seem to have any stuck valves. I am 22 and very new to older engines. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
A long shot, but its possible that the live hydraulics conversion overloaded the timing gears and one is partially stripped. So you have random spark occurring; sometimes it hits where its supposed to; and sometimes not.
 
I should also mention that when I purchased the H the distributor was not attached. I manually turned the crank pulley with a wrench with a finger in the number 1 spark plug hole and waited till I felt air push out so I knew I was on the compression stoke, I then turned it to top dead center and attached the hydraulic pump drive shaft/gear (not sure of the proper term) throught the distributor and into what I believe is called the magneto housing. I made sure that the distributor was lined up with the number 1 spark plug wire.
 
Firing order is 1342 starting at the front (radiator) the normal location for #1 plug wire in the distributor is at 1:30 (O'clock) looking from the back. The rotor turns Clockwise so the #3 wire is at about 3:30, the #4 wire is at 7:30 and #2 is at 10:30. Timing is set at TDC (second notch on the pulley when turning in the normal direction). Point gap is .020 Inches. Put #1 at TDC compression and look at the rotor position. It should be pointing to #1 plug wire tower in the cap. Finding compression can be done by turning the fan with the plugs out (or hand crank if you have one) and feeling at the same time for pressure coming out the #1 plug hole with your thumb. Then put a plastic straw in the plug hole and turn till the straw is neat the top of the piston stroke. At that point you can look for the timing marks at the pulley. Keep us informed or ask questions. Jim
 
Thanks Jim! I apologize as I didn't see your first comment until now. Could the oil spitting up from the air stack (not sure what its called) be caused by the incorrect timing and backfiring? I'm afraid to keep trying to start it and to keep messing with the timing with the oil spitting up like that.
 
Unless the actual cam timing is messed up from a live pump using original cam gear (not strong unless mid 1950 model production) the cause is likely the engine reversing blowing air out the intake. Plug wires misplaced can sure do that. Jim
 
Hello SF welcome to YT! How are you determining you are getting fuel to the carb and what did the fuel look like? If you are checking it by disconnecting the line at the carb that is not telling you the full story. The carb bowl drain plug is where you will find out what kind of flow you are really getting, see photo. Cutting to the chase, the fitting that the gas line connects to screws out and has a fine screen that can plug and stop flow to the carb. The tube through the hood is the air intake stack for the engine. The air filter below it is an oil bath type. So the cup on the bottom of it has oil on it. There is a possibility that water has gotten in and is under the oil in there raising the level. If h the fluid making iron it more susceptible to pushing the oil up out of the top. The starter ..whir.. is a sign of the starter drive gear starting to go bad. I will add some more info for you tomorrow if I get around to it.
cvphoto126679.jpg
 
Jim has you headed in the right direction. I would also add that if the valves are sticking some or not closing completely being tight on the adjustment can make them act that way also.
 
Oil being blown back out the air intake is caused by severe intake reversion or backfiring.

Backfiring can be caused by cross wired plug wires, or a carbon tracked or wet cap.

It can also be caused by an exhaust valve not opening, caused by a bent pushrod, or flat cam. It can still have good compression even with the exhaust not opening.

Or possibly a clogged exhaust, especially that it will run for a few seconds and quit. Rodents like to stash things in there.

The whirring starter, are you saying the starter keeps running after being released?
 
(quoted from post at 00:56:38 05/27/22) Hello SF welcome to YT! How are you determining you are getting fuel to the carb and what did the fuel look like? If you are checking it by disconnecting the line at the carb that is not telling you the full story. The carb bowl drain plug is where you will find out what kind of flow you are really getting, see photo. Cutting to the chase, the fitting that the gas line connects to screws out and has a fine screen that can plug and stop flow to the carb. The tube through the hood is the air intake stack for the engine. The air filter below it is an oil bath type. So the cup on the bottom of it has oil on it. There is a possibility that water has gotten in and is under the oil in there raising the level. If h the fluid making iron it more susceptible to pushing the oil up out of the top. The starter ..whir.. is a sign of the starter drive gear starting to go bad. I will add some more info for you tomorrow if I get around to it.
<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto126679.jpg>
Click to expand...
When the h came into my possession it was bone dry when it comes to fuel. I had put brand new fuel in and I had already taken the carb bowl drain plug out and I have good fuel flow coming from it. I will have to check the oil bath for water as that was not something I was aware of. Is the oil in the oil bath circulated from the engine oil or is it a separate reservoir? Thank for your help!
 
(quoted from post at 00:56:38 05/27/22) Hello SF welcome to YT! How are you determining you are getting fuel to the carb and what did the fuel look like? If you are checking it by disconnecting the line at the carb that is not telling you the full story. The carb bowl drain plug is where you will find out what kind of flow you are really getting, see photo. Cutting to the chase, the fitting that the gas line connects to screws out and has a fine screen that can plug and stop flow to the carb. The tube through the hood is the air intake stack for the engine. The air filter below it is an oil bath type. So the cup on the bottom of it has oil on it. There is a possibility that water has gotten in and is under the oil in there raising the level. If h the fluid making iron it more susceptible to pushing the oil up out of the top. The starter ..whir.. is a sign of the starter drive gear starting to go bad. I will add some more info for you tomorrow if I get around to it.
<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto126679.jpg>
Click to expand...
When the h came into my possession it was bone dry when it comes to fuel. I had put brand new fuel in and I had already taken the carb bowl drain plug out and I have good fuel flow coming from it. I will have to check the oil bath for water as that was not something I was aware of. Is the oil in the oil bath circulated from the engine oil or is it a separate reservoir? Thank for your help!
 
It's a separate reservoir. Empty the cup and clean it out good. There should be a mark embossed in it showing the oil level. Fill it with engine oil to that mark and put it back on.
 
(quoted from post at 06:33:57 05/28/22) It's a separate reservoir. Empty the cup and clean it out good. There should be a mark embossed in it showing the oil level. Fill it with engine oil to that mark and put it back on.
Click to expand...
A couple of days ago I cleaned it out and man was it nasty! I put new oil in it and that seems to have fixed the issue of the oil spewing out. Yesterday I double check the timing and double checked for spark in each cylinder and I can confirm we have strong spark and that the firing order is correct. I tore apart the carb and the piece that the float pushes against was stuck so i took it apart and cleaned it really good and it seemed to work properly afterwards. I put everything back on the H and it really wanted to start. I tried spinning the distributer to mess with the timing but to no avail. I had the throttle slightly above idle as it hardly fired at all on idle. I also tried starting it with the choke open and closed and it wants to start so bad with the choke almost fully closed but it just floods in a matter of seconds. I also tried spraying starting fluid in the air intake on the carb and it doesnt even fire at all when i do that. Any ideas?
 
Not sure if this is covered, but the starter is "whirring" because the engine is firing and kicking the starter drive back as it should.

It's perfectly normal for an old style starter drive that engages by centrifugal force like the one on your H. Starters on newer vehicles have a solenoid that keeps the drive engaged as long as you are holding the key.
 
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