Tractor diesel usage

I'm new here and I'm not sure if this is the correct board to post this on. We suspect diesel theft and need to know what the average diesel usage should be for the tractors in question. What we would like to know is there a simple formula for working out just how much diesel any tractor should be using depending on the work load?

Right now we are harvesting citrus, and each tractor is towing around 4.7tons of citrus. What would the formula be for finding out the average diesel usage for any type of work load on a full tank or even half tank of diesel, for any type of tractor?

We want to maximize the work time and confirm of dismiss any kind of diesel theft.

These are some of the tractors towing citrus, Ford 5600, JD2651 & a JD5725.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as neither me or any one else on the farm knows how to do this, and I'm sure there's an expert on the forum that can help.
 
As you are simply trying to determine if your diesel is being stolen, rather than make a bunch of calculations based on hunches do the simple thing first. Leave your equipment fuel tanks full at the end of each day, and look in the tank in the morning. If they are still full, no problem. If the tanks are down, then time to make appropriate action. You might not be loosing any fuel, just more in tune with operating cost because of increased prices.
 
That won't work, we believe it all happens during work hours as all the tractors are secured behind a CCTV and alarm system. There is no way for any one to get even close to any tractor before triggering the alarms. So it must be happening during work hours.
 
Sounds like you can not trust your help so consider hiring a person to do undercover work. Need to go done a different path. Good luck!
 
Is there a simple formula? No.

All using the Nebraska Test fuel economy numbers will tell you is you are NOT experiencing fuel theft because those are for the tractor running at maximum load.

The only way would have been to track fuel usage to get a running average BEFORE you started suspecting theft.
 
Yes, we have our own tank and pump. The reason we suspect theft is that one week a tractor will run for five day on a full tank, fill up at the end of the week, the next week the same tractor only runs for three days or less doing exactly the same work. One of these thing is not like the other.
 
Good idea, just not gonna happen. The boss and manager are father and son, and both are extreme tight wads. Hiring someone to investigate will take something extreme.
 
(quoted from post at 05:30:31 05/20/22) Yes, we have our own tank and pump. The reason we suspect theft is that one week a tractor will run for five day on a full tank, fill up at the end of the week, the next week the same tractor only runs for three days or less doing exactly the same work. One of these thing is not like the other.

Well, the guys carrying empty 5 gallon jugs into work in the morning and carrying full 5 gallon out at the end of the day would be the first ones I'd suspect.

If the owners are such tightwads, you'd think they'd want to get to the bottom of this. Can't do that without spending a little money.
 
I agree, it takes money to make make. But you see these guy, their not carrying any thing to work, they are way to sly for that. Each
driver is given a tractor to drive for that week and sometimes the whole month. This looks like its gonna take forever to solve.
 
We're already doing that, still need a way to know absolutely that we have the right drivers involved in this. If there isn't, then an investigator will have to be the only way to go.
 
Who is the we who suspects fuel theft? You indicate the outfit is owned by a father/son duo who are extreme tightwads. It sounds like you are neither one of that duo. At the end of the day, the owners have to be concerned enough about it to do what it takes to stop it. If they aren't willing to do that you are SOL.

Is it possible they gave the employees permission to take the fuel? Do the employees drive diesel pickups? You could surreptitiously test their truck tanks for dyed fuel, might not prove they are stealing fuel though...even if they are running dyed fuel in their trucks.

If and until they get concerned about it I wouldn't worry about it. You can report that you suspect it, but if they don't give you the authority to do something about it there isn't much you can do. At the end of the day it is their money buying the fuel...not yours.
 
The WE are the senior staff and admin including me. It's kind of hard to explain the situation with owners of the farm. And we have been told to try and track down who is responsible for the theft. I'm just trying to find a clear cut and direct path with as little doubt as possible to results of our internal investigation, but we're just admin and workshop managers and not PI's. We're always order to do work we're not qualified for as in this situation and end up getting blamed for and mess cause of it, so we do the best we can with what we know and have. I just want to get to the bottom of this before heads start rolling.

And no the driver do not have permission to take the fuel.
 
Ok, this is something we've all been hammer on owner for years and nothing has come of it, it's the only sure fire way of stopping the theft for a short time. Until they start draining it directly from the fuel lines. I'm still trying to figure out a way to complete secure the fuel systems. They're like hacker, they somehow find a way around the damn firewall every damn time.
 
In your situation with you suspecting the fuel being stolen during the day, get locking caps like Rockcreek suggested and give the keys to only one person you trust to unlock them when they are refueled.
 
If you have this little trust in your employees, that you would suspect them of opening the fuel system to drain it out that way then you need new employees. Or a new job yourself that is less stressful on you.
 
This has to the best plan for now, I'll run this past boss and hopefully he'll bite, unless he tightens his grip around the company wallet for the umpteenth time.

Thanks to every one for trying to help, I got a lot of great ideas here.
 
Do you have an accurate flow meter on your pump?

A fuel gauge on a tractor is not always anywhere close to accurate.

I am going to guess if a tractor is at the yard at the start of a shift and the gauge is reading 1/4 tank +- you would expect it to be filled up so it does not run out during the day.

Some fuel gauges read past the full mark when the tank is 3/4 full.
Others the tank can be bone dry while the gauge is still showing 1/4 tank.

About the only way you are going to know would be to fill the tank every day with a metered source.
3 gallons one day, maybe 4 or 5 gallons on other days no big deal.

3 gallons one day then 14 gallons the next day would indicate a potential problem.

If you have working hour meters on the tractors you could also compare run time to fuel consumption.

It could be one employee lets the tractor run all day while another is shutting it off if it is not going to be needed for a while.
 
Yes we do have pretty accurate gauge on the pump, and we dong rely on the janky tractor tank gauge we have a dip stick for these small
tractors to see if the tank is full, 1/2 or even 1/4 of the way empty. No, I'm gonna suggest that the tractor tanks each get a locking
mechanism of some sort.
 
I had a gravity tank and put gas in it. Sure seemed like I was having gas stolen, but a large tank does not have as much in it as you think. Seems like I was always calling for more to be delivered.
 
Clean the cap and hood and put a small piece clear tape , you will at least know if the cap has been removed unless they are sharp enough to catch it .
 
Have one person that fuels each tractor daily, have that person keep track of how much fuel goes into each tractor each day. On every Friday record the hour meter from each tractor.
 
Might be the case here, but you have no idea what it's like to work for these people, they make Scrooge Mcduck look like St. Nick. But thanks anyway, I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of this sooner rather than later.
 
That's a damn good idea, I doubt they'll spot it easily most of the drivers of these tractors are fried. They get high on weed and booze over the weekend. The bright ones all drive the big JDs like the 8330 and 8R340 their tanks lock so no worries there. I'm gonna try this first.

Thanks.
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:30 05/20/22) That's a damn good idea, I doubt they'll spot it easily most of the drivers of these tractors are fried. They get high on weed and booze over the weekend. The bright ones all drive the big JDs like the 8330 and 8R340 their tanks lock so no worries there. I'm gonna try this first.

Thanks.

Locking caps, fill fuel tanks daily and record the hours at the fill time daily for starters.

Have you verified every driver is actually filling the tank (not just gauge full), or just putting some in?

What about the pump on the bulk tank? Does it bleed back while setting? Is the meter working on crank revolutions or is it an actual flowmeter recording fuel flow out the hose? The ones that work off crank revolutions will add gallons just turning the crank to bring fuel up, if it bled down, likely to happen when a filling comes after the pump has set a while since the last use. With a crank revolution pump you can find it dispenses more fuel than it takes to refill the bulk tank.
 
Do you have any method of recording the amount of fuel and the hours on the tractor at each fill up? Without that you are only guessing. Be aware that could cost more to put in place than your perceived fuel losses. If you are only filling once or twice a week you really are not using much fuel, theft or no theft. Your driver labor costs will be higher than your fuel costs per hour.

Check the Nebraska tractor tests for fuel usage and the tank size of each tractor. Excessive idling and driving style could be the difference.
 
A farmer I know was having gas stolen from his storage tank. He secretly told his delivery man to put gas in the empty diesel tank and diesel in the empty gasoline storage tank. He caught the perps when a car showed up at the local garage that had diesel in the gasoline-powered cars fuel system.
 
Are you monitoring how much fuel is delivered compared to how much fuel is dispensed from your bulk tanks? If someone is stealing it is more far more reasonable that they are taking large amounts from the bulk tank rather than siphoning out just a few gallons at a time from several tractor tanks.
 
Try assigning each tractor to a single driver on a long term basis, you will either determine where the excess fuel usage is, or it will suddenly stop. Also, the Nebraska tests will show you about what the average maximum usage should be, allowing for a small percentage of error, if you are exceeding that, if it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
 
You may get a variation in usage by how the tractor is driven doing that particular job. I sold one of my customers a fleet of Ford 6600's back in the day and he started to complain about fuel usage increasing.

When we investigated he was comparing a Ford 5000 against a Ford 6600 with a Quiet cab both doing the same job. The 5000 driver was throttling back because of the noise in his ears all day long, the 6600 driver was running his tractor flat out all day whilst listening to the radio. Different fuel usage between a tractor working at at 1700 rpm to one working at 2200rpm.
 
Best to my knowledge the Nebraska state test for that tractor fuel consumption rpm ,loading. Should be as unbiased as you can get ,good luck
 
(quoted from post at 07:30:31 05/20/22) Yes, we have our own tank and pump. The reason we suspect theft is that one week a tractor will run for five day on a full tank, fill up at the end of the week, the next week the same tractor only runs for three days or less doing exactly the same work. One of these thing is not like the other.

There are so many variables to factor in for the small amount of fuel your using.
Are the conditions the same with no soft spots to pull through, are they traveling the same distance each day from gathering point to unload point, is this distance across soft ground one day and hard road surface the next
Is the drive leaving the tractor running while waiting to load or shutting the engine off if he has to wait for any length of time.
Are they taking their time on some loads and rushing to get done the next

I don't know the fuel consumption of the John Deeres but I have a Ford 5600 I use for mowing hay, for that tractor operating at pto speed pulling a 9 ft mower with no conditioner it's not working hard but is maintaining a steady upper rpm, it will use 1.5-1.75 gallons per hour and will empty it's 20 gallon tank in 11-14 hours or use 12-14 gallons per 8 hour day
Your tractor in comparison is only using 4-6.5 gallons per day that equals .5-.81 gallons per hour in a 8 hour day if it's using the whole 20 gallon tank of fuel in that 3-5 days

Is it taking the same amount of fuel to fill up on that 3rd day as it that on the 5 day fill up, 4 gallons difference is a days fuel so now the amount lost is half what you think it might be

If I suspected fuel theft I'd fill them at the end of each day and record the gallons used, if a tractor uses a extra gallon or two one day I'd look at the work conditions of that day, if it used 4-5 extra gallons then that driver would have to explain how he used twice as much fuel that day.
 
If they fill up every day then measure the amount of fuel left in the tank every evening if the tractors are run the same number of hrs a day should give you a good idea.
 
It's easy if you have a meter on your pump. Just fil it in the morning run for the day and refill that night now divde the hours and gallons used this will give the consumtion per hour per tractor. you will want to do this for each tractorthen figure if they ar filling with more than usual fuel there is something up.
 
Thanks, that is the best idea so far. I'll see if I can convince the upper management to do this. On a side note I've been thinking all of this through and considered all the advice and ideas, I've also thought of the history of this farm and its owners. I've decided to let things play out a little longer, I think that the upper management (AKA the owners) are just hyper paranoid, and extreme tight wads.

I'm sure if we try caterpillar guy' idea we'll see there is no diesel theft and they are just being unreasonably paranoid, seriously, they have a bad habit of throwing around false accusations with out any facts. I'm starting to think their just looking for an excuse to blame someone again for something they did wrong, or I could be wrong and there is a driver or two lifting diesel when left unsupervised.

I'll run this idea by them and see if they bite. I'll post the results at a later date, if there will be anything to post. Thanks for all the great advice.
 

As I mentioned previously, what type pump and what type meter? Depending on the meter type the readings can be false at times.
 
It's a mechanical meter, it's part of an old diesel pump, the kind you'd find at a gas station. Don't worry about it, I think the upper management is just hyper paranoid.
 
Do the tanks still hold fuel? If they do, theft is highly unlikely. Most fuel theft around here is done by punching a hole in the tank.
 
"Don't worry about it, I think the upper management is just hyper paranoid."

Believe me, I'm not worried about it. I was just trying to point out another possible cause, I have seen, of the fuel usage discrepancies. You started this witch hunt, perhaps you and your co-workers need to heed your own advice. Good luck with your quest.
 

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