(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

world going nuts!

J

JMOR

Well-known Member
Location
TX
Software in a tail light!!!!! ????????????
GMC is actively recalling the newly launched Hummer EV because of a possible tail light failure.
Software in the tail light assembly could prevent it from functioning as intended.
 
We are supposed to be making progress. Can't get a simple tail light to function properly.
Yep, that is crazy.
 
At one of my work locations awhile back I noticed a city police car nearby that always had one headlight out--as in, not working. Since that cop patrolled the area, I asked why they didn't fix it. He said it was a special headlight that they couldn't just take from a parts car--there would be some programming or something like that involved. Maybe auto-dimming? So he drives around with one headlight. Gerrit
 
I have a 2002 Olds Silhouette that has a tail light assembly with a circuit board that failed. I had to replace whole circuit board, not just a burned out bulb light in days past.
 
I suppose the four corners of a vehicle are the most likely areas of impact.

I suppose car makers strive to locate high dollar parts in these areas.
 
But we just got done discussing the issue of reliability and no need to even know how to change a
tire if you happen to be unlucky enough to have a flat tire. Us old farts were put down for being
so against change. Just call someone and they will change it for you. Well, good luck with that
around fly over country.

I personally like a great deal of the changes made to an auto in the last years. Fuel injection,
electric controlled windows, good radios, better tires etc , etc. Most cars build a whole lot
more miles on them before they are junked than cars from 50 years ago. But, some of this stuff is
just nonsense and if you look back into the history of auto's you will see many things were tried
and later thrown on the wayside.
 
Stop lights were so simple when they had a lever switch, or a pressure accuated switch. What are
the engineers trying to prove? Stop lights are a safety hazard when they don't work. Why not make them a simple circuit again, and not depending on a
computer chip from china. Stan
 
Simple light? No. LED light (requires voltage management circuit), and possibly other functions, some on for tail and all on for brake, animated direction for
turns, etc. Customer demand for more features results in more complexity and makes replacement more economical than repair, especially when dealing with
electronic circuits.

Fair disclosure: I am a long term GM employee, but not in lamps.
 
(quoted from post at 09:55:25 03/22/22) Software in a tail light!!!!! ????????????
GMC is actively recalling the newly launched Hummer EV because of a possible tail light failure.
Software in the tail light assembly could prevent it from functioning as intended.
Click to expand...

I suppose they just wire constant power to the light unit, then send a sign on "canbus" (or whatever flavor they are using) network that runs between all the electrical components of the car that specifies what the light unit is supposed to do, brakelight, turnsignal, tailight, backup light. NO individual power wires needed that way!

It's like power window switches, many now are just a wimpy little things with electronics inside that send a signal over the "bus" to the 'puter that sends a command to a relay center IF the 'puter decides it's OK to obey that operator's command and operate the window at the given moment!
 
Just wait until Onstar shuts your vehicle down for two
weeks because you posted something political online.
Okay, Im kidding. Well, maybe not. Several years ago,
GM had a TV commercial that showed Onstar shutting
down a vehicle that was reported stolen and was being
followed by the cops.
 
If we had only stayed with horses and buggies we would not have to worry about these new fangled things like: LEDs, circuit boards, sensors, heated seats, radios, air conditioning, batteries, power steering, hydraulic brakes, GPS, etc. We would all know how to fix a sick or injured horse ourselves and would simply have tons and tons of hay and manure to deal with at a walking pace.

Unfortunately I really do like all the modern conveniences. A horse and buggy would be fun to goof around with once in a while, but I would not want to rely on one.
 
I am sure there are people who want and need to drive a Hummer EV , so complex systems can be expected to be a part of the cost of ownership. . I would never need that kind of vehicle myself .
 
Who wants to work on this beauty?

mvphoto89712.jpg
 
Bingo.

Copper is expensive and manufacturers have been designing it out for decades.

Dean
 
world going nuts!
No I think there are a lot of loose screws, especially elected
screws. No shortage of dipsticks either, all in DC..
 
People plow into the backs of emergency vehicles on the side of the road with their flashers going full-tilt because they "didn't SEE it!" Happens on a regular basis.

You think a simple dim incandescent bulb is going to cut it for a stop/turn/tail light in modern traffic?

Even car taillights have to flicker and flash randomly to get the attention of people behind you these days. That's why there's "software" (really a simple program on a chip) in your taillight.

Sure if they rear-end you it's their fault, but how about they don't hit you in the first place? Saves a trip to the body shop. Saves fighting with insurance companies. Saves having to spend the rest of your life in pain with a permanent inoperable neck injury, or worse, addicted to opiates.
 
As a young electronics engineering student in the 70's, I knew you could switch devices on and off with transistors. But I wonder why you would want do add the complexity of electronics when you could
keeping it simple by just using the switch? Back in the 70's almost all devices had a hard switch between the power and the device. Most devices were full off and non operational. Now days almost
every device has a soft switch. The devices are almost always on but the human interface is simulated to be off. So most people think their device is off. The simplicity of a half century ago is gone.
 
Must be cheaper for GM to order the light with a circuit board from China than it is to run 5 wires to each side.

Only a 2 wire ribbon cable needed with the smart light!

It's probably sealed too, no servicing it, replace the entire assembly.

Oh, by the way, make an appointment for installation and programing, looking at $600 and a day in the shop!

Thank you for being a loyal customer!
 
It seems that now everything has to be as complex as possible and there is no thought to making it easy to repair and of reasonable cost. It is partly the fault of the companies that make the stuff but also the fault of the people that buy it. And don't complain loud enough when a tail light cost $600.
 
We decided to buy a new car last fall. We found two that were the same color, same transmission and same engine. One had $10,000 more electronics on it. So we bought the cheaper one. We can't figure out half
of the bells and whistles on this one. On the other hand my A farmall has a switch on it that grounds out the mag to shut it off, works good!
 
A friend on mine Loren, took his 1950 chevy pickup to a fireworks display in rurual N,D., a Highway patrol about 25 yrs old, stopped him leaving it, and wanted to see his Lic, Insurance card and stuff, and also said you know you only got one tail light, he said ya it's only got one,so the HP looked again, then radioed Bismarck,after about 10 minutes, said you can go now!
 
(quoted from post at 15:46:50 03/22/22) Plus the device is always using power so in turn it make the electric bill higher
Click to expand...
n a vehicle, that electronics that never turns off will & has killed battery after it sits long enough. Only milliamps , but will kill it over time. Most drive more frequently than that, but say leave at hunting camp for months....better remove cable.
 
Ain't that the truth? I was a GM man from 1968 when I bought my first Chevy to 2012 when I traded that POS GMC Sierra on a new 2013 Tundra. We're all Toyota now, and happy as a clam!
 
I once worked for a construction company that ran a landfill. They had 836 caterpillar compactors there. I was called out on a service call to
figure out why the blade wouldn't go up or down anymore. Well the crew shut the machine down for daily cleaning ,then afterward the blade
refused to work at all. I plugged in the Cat laptop and went about diagnosing the problem. I accidently pressed the wrong key and the complete
history of the machine came up on the screen. Some 460,000 gallons of diesel was burned up in it's lifetime , as were 4 engines and 2
transmissions and was started up with dry oil filters some 2 dozen times. I see why, they were heavy filled with oil and super heavy with arm
fully extended to attempt to screw the filter in place. It was also super slick with oil spilled all over it as it had to be tipped to get into
position. Now , with that said. I found the diagnostics and found the blade control had no power going to it. All the rocker switches were worn
, not legible labels. Someone switched off the rocker switch for the blade control system when cleaning the cab. Why would CAT put such a
switch right on the right armrest. Found out that it goes thru the ECM circuit for engine controls... Sure , Why Not ??
 
(quoted from post at 15:18:36 03/22/22) If people didn't buy them they wouldn't make them. It's that simple..
Click to expand...

Not a valid conclusion: there is no alternative to the current gizmo-itis, and it isn't all consumer-driven. It is often regulation-driven.

Let me walk into a Chevy dealership and buy a brand new 1969 truck. Just EXACTLY like the one from '69, mind you: not modernization, just brand new. I'd buy two.

Heck, I could [i:0076788438]afford [/i:0076788438]two, whereas I cannot afford one new one now (not that I want one).
 
Anything that uses electricity like you are talking about will produce heat. Heat with electricity and no biggie..
Not worth my time to on plug them..
 
Tony is talking about most every electrical device made now days. Be it a TV or other such thing they when turned off don't power all the way down so they keep using power
 
Everything in a modern vehicle is multiplexed. Why? Because wire is made out of copper, and copper is heavy. The fewer wires in the vehicle wiring harness, the lighter the vehicle. The lighter the vehicle, the better its fuel economy. Don't like it? Better keep that old beater running, because every OEM is doing it.
 
Naw, years ago the acting CEO at the time said we (GM) will build what we want to build and you will have to buy it as you have no other choice......about that time Datsun and Toyota stuck their foot in the US market and things haven't been the same since.....1960 give or take time line.
 
This doesn't surprise me. Bring me over that 1960 Cadillac and I'll diagnose the problem over a cup of coffee.
 
You think GM is the only one using all the new technology, think again, Why couldn't ford or Dodge get there operating chips
also. I've own over 30 new Gm products and never had a bad one but have a few ford products and were junk from the
beginning. Everything today is so complicated that the only people that can work on them is the dealers, farm implements and
cars and trucks big and small. Might as well get use to it.
 
Multiplex ..... interesting term, I like it. I've never heard of it before to be honest, maybe #9 below. I think one of these below suits what you are referring to ....

Multiplex may refer to:

1)Multiplex (automobile), a former American car make
2)Multiplex (comics), a DC comic book supervillain
3)Multiplex communication or multiplexing, combining many signals into a single transmission circuit or channel
4)Multiplex (television), a group of digital television or radio channels that are mixed together for broadcast
5)Multiplex (company), a global contracting and development company
6)Multiplex (assay), a biological assay which measures several components at the same time
7)Multiplex (highway) or concurrency, a single road designated by multiple highway numbers
8)Multiplex (juggling), a juggling action with multiple balls thrown or caught at one time by the same hand
9)Multiplex (movie theater), a theater with many screens
10)Multiplex (webcomic), an online comic about the staff of a movie theater
 
Bingo.

Both heavy and expensive.

Nearly 40 years ago I was part of a multidivisional task force studying ways to reduce the amount of copper in vehicles.

Nothing new.

Dean
 
I remember reading that 40% of agriculture was to feed the horses and mules required for agriculture. Is that true?? (in reguards to WWII where the allies used ALL new fuel driven equipment for farming and for war.)
 
Bingo, again.

A significant portion of the cost of a vehicle is due, directly or indirectly, to government regulations.

Dean
 
> Multiplex ..... interesting term, I like it. I've never heard of it before to be honest, maybe #9 below. I think one of these below suits what you are referring to ....

It would be number 3 on your list.

The standard used by just about every automobile, truck, tractor, heavy equipment or motorcycle manufacturer is CAN Bus. Contrary to what you might think, a CAN Bus is not what you'd take to get from Saskatoon to Banff. It's a protocol for multiplexing vehicle communications over a serial data bus.
CAN Bus
 
We had A couple Grand Ams While Pontiac was around, well the 08 RAV4 is still running good......

Paul
 
The electronics is why I won't purchase a vehicle made in the 21st century. There is more than I want in a car I have made in 1987 but I will live with it. As far as the world going nuts it seems the overwhelming population of this country is completely cracked.
 
Yeah either one looks good to an old fellow like me, but the real reason I posted the pic was I have to believe that in 1960 many of the older gents that were my age (64), had come of age learning how to keep 1920 through 1950 model autos on the road.
A new car was not affordable to many, so they kept what they had on the road as long as possible out of necessity.
So in that context when they saw that new high dollar "caddy" with all the fancy gadgets they weren't familiar with, nor able to repair, they may have simply poo pooed the very idea of owning one. You know, they would have had to take it to the dealer for repair if the window failed to function, obviously a ploy by the manufacturer to grab a little more money. And a four barrel carb? you gotta be nuts! Who could afford the gas. Auto choke? now that's gonna be trouble. Automatic climate control? never.
In truth I would cringe to see that car in my shop today. (The lady is welcome anytime.)
Those Detroit boats were a nightmare then and even worse now when they are 50 years older. I had the pleasure of working on them in the seventies and eighties, and the downsized ones in the nineties and later. What a mess of complication.
To be honest the late model cars of today with their multiple com networks and relay centers can be troubleshooted/diagnosed much easier with a bi-directional scan tool and electrical experience. Circuits are predictable,access to them at the relay is great.You have the switched circuit and the command circuit right there,after a few hundred repairs you lose the fear.
I'm getting too old now to crawl around and under them to do the work but I like the new approach to building them.
Doesn't mean I can afford or even want one, they are not that desirable really, except maybe a hot rod Mercedes,now that's a freaking car!
But I wouldn't want to work on it!
I have better things to do!

mvphoto89760.jpg
 
On good ground the rule of thumb was 25 percent to feed the horses needed on a farm. On lower yielding soils or in a poor year 40 percent could have been possible.
 
Any OE LED taillight has software in it.
First ones we saw at the dealer were on the
'08 Buick Enclave CXL.

Not going to be a huge recall, gm had only
built 17 Hummer EVs last I knew. Total
fail of a vehicle launch. Rivian has
outsold gm 920 to 1. gm will die on the EV
field.
 
All I can think of when I see the title of this thread now is the joke about the pirate with the ship's wheel on his... well... thing. When asked why it's there he says, "Arrr, it's drivin' me nuts!"
 
But modern vehicles aren't lighter. Modern vehicles are far and away heavier than their antique counter parts. My 1950 Willys truck is 4x4 and has a GVW of 5300 lb. at a curb weight of 3300 lb. There isn't a modern light truck that has a curb weight of 3300 pounds, even a 2wd. My son's 1977 F250 4x4 has a GVW of 6600 lb, so that would mean the curb is about 4200 lb. There is no modern 1/2 ton 4x4 with a curb weight under 5000 lb., much less a 3/4.
 
> But modern vehicles aren't lighter. Modern vehicles are far and away heavier than their antique counter parts.

Yes, but you would be surprised at the length vehicle engineers will go to to shave even a few kilos off the weight of a vehicle. That's particularly true of trucks and SUVs, where moving the center of mass a few centimeters can make the difference between a four and five star rollover rating. What's the difference in weight between a steel and aluminum hood? Not much, you'd think, but many cars now have aluminum hoods. And let's not forget that Ford pickups have had aluminum bodies for several years now.
 
My 2018 F-150 SuperCrew 4x4 with a 6 1/2 foot bed has a Curb weight of 4,685 lbs and a GVWR of 7,050 lbs. So you are incorrect that you can't get a modern 1/2 ton 4x4 with a curb weight under 5,000 lbs!
 
(quoted from post at 16:18:36 03/22/22) If people didn't buy them they wouldn't make them. It's that simple..
Click to expand...

True enough George, but no one is demanding software for tail lights or any of the other million things we get without asking for. People buy vehicles to get from point A to point B. They may want power seats and locks, but most of the rest is nonsense chosen by the company making the car.

Personally, tech from about 1985 or maybe 68 was plenty good enough for me.
 
How much of the weight can be contributed to Federally mandated safety, convenience, and emissions equipment that MUST be on ALL vehicles in order to be sold new in the USA these days.

That was one of the factors that killed the Mahindra truck in the USA. It was a simple truck but it didn't meet Federal emissions and safety standards. By the time they added everything the Feds wanted, it was no longer a simple truck.
 
there are around 50 small computers in a modern automobile/light truck.

even the motor in your cooling fan, heater fan, wipers likely (not all) has a computer in it. no wonder we're having issues with semi-conductors.
 
(quoted from post at 08:41:30 03/23/22)
Personally, tech from about 1985 or maybe 68 was plenty good enough for me.
Click to expand...

You can keep your 1985 or 1968 death traps!
Click to expand...

Glad to! Been driving since before '85 but not quite since '68, and would still keep my '69 "Death Trap." Been in three major accidents (in a '77 wagon, a '67 truck, and a '69 truck), two with semis, and I'm not dead yet, not even injured beyond a cut or two and sore shoulders although both the '77 and the '67 were lost. Still use the engine out of the '67 despite the semi running over the front end.
 
Have you actually had it weighed, or is that advertised curb weight? Advertised curb weight is typically before options. 200 lbs one way or the other isn't that big a deal. So find a 3/4 44 under that, which is what my point was about anyway. My point is, modern vehicles are grossly over weight, which is why we still can't get good fuel economy.
 
After reading all these post I gotta wonder if Johny Cash tried doing what he did in the old days would work now. How would he get all of the chips to work together? Just sayin!
 
(quoted from post at 07:17:34 03/23/22) But modern vehicles aren't lighter. Modern vehicles are far and away heavier than their antique counter parts. My 1950 Willys truck is 4x4 and has a GVW of 5300 lb. at a curb weight of 3300 lb. There isn't a modern light truck that has a curb weight of 3300 pounds, even a 2wd. My son's 1977 F250 4x4 has a GVW of 6600 lb, so that would mean the curb is about 4200 lb. There is no modern 1/2 ton 4x4 with a curb weight under 5000 lb., much less a 3/4.
Click to expand...

Weight! Wait until all electric! 7,700 batteries make up 1700-1800 pounds of additional weight. Ford Lightening F-150 = 6500#, including batteries. Due to large usage of lightweight materials, it manages to hold it down to only 1685# heavier than the gas F-150 at 4815#. A mere 35% increase. :roll: Batteries weigh more than the 1/2 ton load capacity!!!
 
(quoted from post at 11:39:49 03/24/22)
(quoted from post at 07:17:34 03/23/22) But modern vehicles aren't lighter. Modern vehicles are far and away heavier than their antique counter parts. My 1950 Willys truck is 4x4 and has a GVW of 5300 lb. at a curb weight of 3300 lb. There isn't a modern light truck that has a curb weight of 3300 pounds, even a 2wd. My son's 1977 F250 4x4 has a GVW of 6600 lb, so that would mean the curb is about 4200 lb. There is no modern 1/2 ton 4x4 with a curb weight under 5000 lb., much less a 3/4.
Click to expand...

Weight! Wait until all electric! 7,700 batteries make up 1700-1800 pounds of additional weight. Ford Lightening F-150 = 6500#, including batteries. Due to large usage of lightweight materials, it manages to hold it down to only 1685# heavier than the gas F-150 at 4815#. A mere 35% increase. :roll: Batteries weigh more than the 1/2 ton load capacity!!!
Click to expand...
Or if searching for heavy and real heavy, try Rivian electric PU @7173# or EV Hummer @ 9046#
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
update on "world going nuts" last March
Replies
15
Views
807
rusty6
rusty6
N
New Member needs help with lights
Replies
14
Views
553
buickanddeere
B
YTSupport
New Forums again
Replies
13
Views
1K
cpratt
cpratt
T
2005 JD 655 steering issue
Replies
2
Views
200
Tommyspell
T
S
Ford 3000 Power Draw Causing Stall
Replies
7
Views
447
Hemmjo
Hemmjo
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top