Not getting any gas or spark continued

Can someone tell me about his upflow carburetor? I assume If the gas is not flowing up and getting into the chamber you will not have any gas on your spark plugs I turned it over for 20 seconds and plugs are not wet. I am not familiar with the upflow carburetor machine has sat for 2 years not I cant get nothing going. I cleaned the points still no fire. I don't know where to go from here . Also whats this screw for in pic #1

Gas flow to the carb is to be checked by loosening the drain plug in the carb bowl then if none, the fuel line at the carb,
generally the plastic filter shown is not recommended in a gravity based system. There are filters (NAPA) that are for
gravity flow. The use of sand paper can insulate the points by leaving grit behind. Clean with a folded dollar bill (no
fiber left in the gap. Jim

Very good point about fuel filter , thank you , forgot about that .

Looks like the points are gone,looks like maybe the key was left
on and fried the points. Use a voltmeter or my favorit is a
simple test light to check for power at the coil and the
distubbitor. The carburetor turns liquid gas into vapers,that is
one of the reasons the updraft carbs worked. Also a kind of a
safety to keep gas from running into the the cylinders if the
needle valve fails.(it can still happen because the tank is
higher the the cylinders). After you have spark then shoot some
starting fluid in the intake of the cab. If it runs then start
looking toward the fuel system.

2 minute test Remove air intake hose from carb Use a
spray bottle to spray some gas into carburetor. Quickly try
to start. If it hits a bit, its a fuel problem. If not, its an
ignition issue.

This post was edited by tonyof757 on 03/20/2022 at 09:22 am.

Someone sent me this video I tried to clean the points the same way . Far as the filter it was running with a simular filter in it 2 years ago but I will bypass it if it helps me get this running now. What if its getting gas to the carb and you can loosen the screw and it does pour out but how can you tell if that (vapor ) gas will flow and is flowing upward into the chamber to your spark plugs ? thanks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx6kBJ6C3To

I will try it thanks

how can you tell the points are gone? running when parked just sat 2 years

That screw/plug your asking about in your first picture, is to pipe in your milking machine when the electric goes out. If it leaks, the motor will have trouble running.

Before you do anything else, you need to test things. Do Janicholson's test for fuel flow to the carburetor.
Get a test light and check for voltage to the coil. Or even easier: to check for spark, turn the key on, pull
the coil wire, and open and close points with screwdriver, while holding the coil wire away from the block or
anything metal on the engine (a good ground), and watching for spark from the coil wire. Mark.

You need to learn simple trouble shooting.
#1 pull the carb drain plug out of the bottom of the carb do so with the gas turned off. Then take a pint jar and hold it under the drain plug hole. The flow of gas should be steady enough to fill a pint jar in less then 3 minutes and 2 is even better

#2 to test the point with them closed if you you take a wire and hook it to the non ground side of the battery and then touch the ignition side of the coil the side not going to the distributor you should see a small spark. Touch it on and off a few times. Then turn the engine over enough to get the points open. Touch the wire there a couple times again. You should get no spark this time

Sorry this is long but I am trying to add enough detail
for someone who had to ask what the points are and
where are they, for others see previous post. Also
trying to explain the test so they can be done by
yourself. In your previous post you said you were
going to pickup a test light. First a little test light use
101. The test light will have a pointed probe end and a
wire lead with a clip on the end. To check test light
function put the lead clip will be on a good ground.
Maybe a sanded off spot on the tube coming off the oil
filter is good. Once you get it clipped on touch the
probe to the positive battery cable terminal, if it lights
this verifies the ground clip is making a good contact
so tests made with the light are valid. With the key on
you need to see if the test light shows voltage at the
positive terminal of the coil, circled in 1st photo. Now I
cannot tell exactly where the wire is coming from on
that terminal of the coil but the terminal you want to
check is NOT the one that goes to the distributor. If
that is good move to the next test which is testing to
see if the points are working correctly. You can use the
test light in reverse for this test. Take the test light
probe and place it into the gap between the negative
..has minus sign.. battery terminal bolt and the battery
post. If it will not fit tight wedge a screwdriver blade or
something else next to it to hold it tight. Now take the
lead clip and touch it to the positive terminal again
verifying connection. Then hook the lead clip to the
terminal coming out of the side of the distributor. That
should be shined up a little with your sand paper,
picture 2 shows that. Now crank the motor with the
starter the test light should flash on and off as the
points open and close. Now the reason people are
saying your points are bad may just be due to the
picture not being clear. In the 2nd link there is an
example set of points on the arm that moves against
the spring you see a very defined circular contact
point that matches the round stationary contact
opposite of it. The photo in your post does not show
that round contact point is there very clearly. If that is
burned away to the thickness of less than say the
thickness of 2 business cards the points probably need
replaced. However, if the test light flashes they are still
good enough to start the tractor. Next pull out one
spark plug run your sand paper through the gap. Now
put the spark plug wire back on it. Lay, tape or bungee
it to some metal part so the gap can be seen from the
seat. Assemble the cap on the distributor and check if
you can see a spark every two revolutions of the
engine while cranking with the starter. If so you have
established you have spark. The last picture shows the
carb, the plug marked one is where you will check the
gas flow as has been described by others. If that is
good loosen the clamp on the intake hose number 2.
Remove that hose. This will be a 2 person check unless
you can reach the starter button and hold your hand
over the inlet on the carb, BE CAREFUL IF YOU DO
THIS ALONE MAKE SURE IT IS NOT IN GEAR. Cover
that and crank the engine with the starter about 3
seconds. You should feel a strong suction and when
you pull you hand away there should be gas dripping
out. This will verify that gas is available for combustion
in the intake air stream. Good luck report back.





Previous post

Example points set

(quoted from post at 09:29:30 03/20/22)
That screw/plug your asking about in your first picture, is to pipe in your milking machine when the electric goes out. If it leaks, the motor will have trouble running.

Click to expand...

i thought that was where you spray starter fluid thanks for telling me. I still don't know what a milking machine is but i know what its not now thanks J.

Thanks Everyone. There is some very knowledgeable people in this group I appreciate you all I will try these things this afternoon and followup Thank You!

I would NOT recommend the methods by old in number 2 of his reply. Very risky method for an individual with minimal mechanical experience. You could easily burn your hand or even the whole machine. What I laid out in my post will check those items in your ignition safely. Rich check your email.

I learn this when I was young as in 15 or so and I knew almost nothing. As long as he doesn't do a direct short to the tractor frame there is no problem since going to the coil will only make a small spark and is far less then the spark at a plug

Some times a piece of card board etc. isn't enough. You either need a true points file or emery cloth but if you use the emery then you do have to follow up with the business card etc. If it would help you can send me an e-mail and I'll give you my home number so I can talk you through the trouble shooting

About the milking machine as in milking a cow. If you
have a few minutes this video will explain it. In fact the
opening of it shows it straight up, enjoy!
Poke here

Is the fuel filter rated for low pressure gravity feed or is it for use after a fuel pump?

not sure went to advance and low and behold they had the exact same filter that was on it before

thanks I'll check it out. Does anyone know by the numbers what model is my machine . I think it's a workbull industrial

why is it called points ? It's only a spring loaded clampy type mechanism?

@Old Done !

This post was edited by tonyof757 on 03/20/2022 at 06:04 pm.

Jump over to classic and you will see a box that says send e-mail click on it and you can send me an e-mail. As for the fuel filter it appears to be a fuel pump needed type filter.. As for the point there called that due to the area the spark jumps to make the spark are 2 small point sort of things. As in point of contact to open and close a circuit

(quoted from post at 16:38:42 03/20/22) Jump over to classic and you will see a box that says send e-mail click on it and you can send me an e-mail. As for the fuel filter it appears to be a fuel pump needed type filter.. As for the point there called that due to the area the spark jumps to make the spark are 2 small point sort of things. As in point of contact to open and close a circuit

Click to expand...

as for the test old asked me to try I did see the light but it stayed bright it really didnt blink as motor turned over if it did it was very faint. I'm not sure what that means but everything was giving a light except my inline spark plug tester it did not light up

gravity fed

voltage going to coil but no spark coming from distributor gas not doing much better

how can you tell if the points are gone ?

With the ignition turned out and the cap/rotor/dust cover removed open and close the point by hand with a piece of plastic. You should see a small spark every time you open the points. I say use a piece of plastic because if you use a screw driver or your fingers the spark will get lost and if you use your fingers you will not like where the spark goes. I.E. you will find the spark the hard OUCH way

another good test I will try it thanks old

So your post at 17:43:45 was replying to the test I laid
out for you to use a test light for flashing on off power
at the distributor side post? The test gave you a proper
flashing response? I know you are in contact with old
by email and phone. I hope he can help you out safely,
he is very knowledgeable but some of his methods are
short cuts. I know he will say, yes but they work.

Short cut well maybe but tried and true and have worked for me for 50 plus years of working on engines. I learned many things I know from people who are now long dead.

Interesting video - thanks used red!

the light stayed on during used red MN's test it didn't really blink while i was turning it over if it did it was slightly but for the most part it just stayed on. I don't mind trying anyone's method its ok. I knew the light operates off negative to a positiive as long as I don't go positive to positive i guess I won't burn anything up

If the light stayed on that say to me the points are not closing all the way or need a whole lot more cleaning. I have had point so bad that I hard to remove them and carefully use a grinder to polish them up but doing that takes a good eye and a steady hand. The light should flash on when the points open and off when they close. By the way have you check what the point gap is. Most common gap should be 0.025

I saw the milking machine video that was interesting I thought you were pulling my leg Lol

The points are just a simple switch that open and close
..turn on and off.. the ignition coil circuit rapidly. Inside
the coil the primary circuit that is connected to the two
terminal posts on the coil which is an ..electromagnet
coil.. is one continuous long insulated wire going
around and around. So when you have power to the
positive terminal and nothing connected to the
negative terminal there is power on both terminals
because as I said it is one continuous wire. That is
what is making the terminal on the side of the
distributor show it has power by the test light. When
the points close and are contacting properly you
..ground out.. that side of the coil which makes the
light go out. Because the negative battery post has a
cable connecting it to the chassis of the tractor and
that is where the test light probe is and the distributor
base mounts to the engine which is mounted to the
tractor chassis. As the points are closed magnetism
builds in the primary electromagnet of the coil. That
coil is right next to the ..secondary coil.. inside the coil
so the primary magnetic field is crossing over into the
secondary coil. The secondary winding connects to
where the spark output of the coil is. Now the points
are pushed open and the primary electromagnet
instantly looses its magnetic field. The electrons in the
secondary field that where being highly excited
suddenly want to find some place to discharge to so
they find the exit of the coil by way of the ..high
tension.. terminal or socket where the coil spark wire
to the distributor cap connects. There are a few more
parts to it like the condenser which is sort of a buffer
to some of the electrons that come out of the coil
during the discharge of the points and helps the
contacts surfaces of the point last longer. Well there
may be a few technical inaccuracies in that explanation
but close enough. I will attach some info on ignition
systems by the International Harvester company. The
first 10 pages explain what I just told you in proper
detail in what I feel is very simple terminology.
BTW the name ..points.. is kind of a slang term that
has been use for years. If you looked at my example
set of points I linked the proper name is ..contact set..
so the ..point.. of contact somehow turned into points.
Another thing you asked how to tell when points need
replaced I sort of mentioned why in my lengthy post at
the point where I mention the example points. Put
another way if the round contact surfaces have an
extreme electrical arc burned appearance or pitting
they should be replaced just so you know you have a
good working part of the ignition system that is
performing the task of giving the motor strong and
consistent spark. Another rough comparison for
replacement is the contacts start out somewhere
around the thickness of a dime to a penny. If either
contact is wore down to half the thickness of a dime
this is the point when the reliability of the points really
goes down hill fast. If you replace them I looked up the
proper spec of the point gap and for your tractor it is
0.20 inches, that is measured when the lobe on the
cam in the distributor is opening the points the
farthest it can. The info I attached also has some more info on good and bad point condition. One last thing, I think I did not specify
what you were supposed to block off when you pulled
the intake hose off the carb. The opening on the carb
was supposed to be completely held shut by your hand over it. Then the engine turned
over to check for a good suction. Also this should pull
a fair amount of gas in the carb through the fuel
circuits. So if gas drips out of the carb you know gas is
available through at least some of the carb fuel circuits to mix into the intake air stream. Another
thing while you have that hose off operate the choke
and make sure it fully closes when you pull the knob. In
the attached info just click the lower line that says HTML file,
that will open the whole document. The others are just
individual pages. Good luck.
Ignition explanation info

works now old Thanks to you and everyone that responded you test pointed me to the plugs and wires even the wire to the coil was changed once all that was done she started right up your a genious.

Thanks Used Red MN I got it running but i am still going to study the tip you gave me for next time Thanks Appreciate it .