A few days ago I asked on here about diesel fuel jelling up in a stove in a caboose I am working on at a local museum. Today after a couple of days above freezing I got the system taken apart and it had a bunch of water in the line, including a chunk of ice still in the filter. My question is does the additives that prevent jelling also deal with any moisture present, like dry gas goes in gasoline. I want to get the stove running and not be taking it apart again down the road due to moisture again. Those little stoves are a messy pain to take apart.
- Thread starter Charlie M
- Start date
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
In your other post fixerupper said they used Heet in their outdoor fuel tank. That is what you would need to combat the water, it likely has alcohol for that. Probably the only way to get close to guaranteeing you will not have a future problem would be to drain and flush the tank. Not sure how accessible it is for that.
Link to first post on subject
Link to first post on subject
rustred
Well-known Member
it all depends on how that water got in thee and how much, could have been mixed and poured in with the fuel. an additive will not remove that much water. say maybe you got a couple snowflakes in it might but best is to screen the fuel when pouring it in . but as i said in my original post you had other problems than jelled fuel. turns out now who gets the cigar ??!! i knew that summer fuel in a building jelling up was not the problem. but some try to make you wrong when your right and hear say out ways hands on experience i guess. thanks for the outcome post!
flying belgian
Well-known Member
I don't see how any additive could get rid of moisture. I mean where would it go? Moisture comes from condensation in tank. Only way to get it out of tank would be to drain tank.
redforlife
Well-known Member
I would say, no. If you got a moisture problem, you got a moisture problem. Needs dealt with separately as a problem of its own.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
You can use fuel deicer in diesel.
It is alcohol based, it will blend with the water, doing 2 things, it prevents solid freeze up, there may still be some ice but it will be porous and slushy enough to still allow some flow. It will also be flammable enough that as the water/alcohol mix is fed into the fire it will still try to burn. It might surge and sputter, but unless it is overwhelmingly water contaminated, it will still try to burn.
It does have its limitations and needs to be in there as a preventive, not an afterthought.
Draining the water off the bottom, eliminating low spots in the line, and spin-on traps that can be removed and replaced while frozen is the first line of defense.
It is alcohol based, it will blend with the water, doing 2 things, it prevents solid freeze up, there may still be some ice but it will be porous and slushy enough to still allow some flow. It will also be flammable enough that as the water/alcohol mix is fed into the fire it will still try to burn. It might surge and sputter, but unless it is overwhelmingly water contaminated, it will still try to burn.
It does have its limitations and needs to be in there as a preventive, not an afterthought.
Draining the water off the bottom, eliminating low spots in the line, and spin-on traps that can be removed and replaced while frozen is the first line of defense.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
The Heet we used to use contained methyl alcohol and it seemed like it went right to the bottom of the tank and cleared up the ice in no time flat. We never had a lot of ice, just enough to plug the fuel line in a low spot. If enough water was in the tank to fill the carburetor and fuel line with ice then a cleanout would be fequired before it worked again. About 40 years ago a 90 year old bachelor neighbor who lived in a drafty old farm house with no plumbing or phone had his oil burner fuel line freeze from the inside of the carburetor to the outside tank. The outside temp was minus 10 and the temp in his house was zero. I had the lovely job of thawing the carb with heat lamps and completely removing the fuel line to thaw it. Heet would never have solved that problem. He said this was the first time he had ever woke up with cold feet.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
When alcohol is added to an oil based fuel, gasoline or diesel, it creates a molecular location for water molecules to attach. It needs to be liquid water to work. There is a limit on the amount of H2O it can connect to and still drag the H2O along into the fire or engine fuel system, but it is substantial. Beyond that capacity, the alcohol can turn into a slime like mix that still plugs up filters and won't burn. so it won't take a quart of water out of a fuel tank, but it will remove, and dispose of by burning with the combustion, modest water contamination. Jim
Testing Data
Testing Data
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
You said summer blend diesel won't gel until -30 to -40 degrees Fahrenheit. That's the problem with your original post!!! You don't get it.
rustred
Well-known Member
Here we go again , U dont get it. He said it was 10 degrees , long way from -30- -40. How will it gel in a little tank in a building with no filters. Your not dealing with a vehicle here as u guys are implying. Have you experience with those old diesel heaters and how they work. ?
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
You said summer blend won't gel until -30 to -40 degrees Fahrenheit. Go read your own post. Forget about the caboose heater. Read your post.
rustred
Well-known Member
I dont have to reread it I remember what I posted , I also said. He did not have gelled fuel in that caboose !!! He wanted an answer one his problem , not what u guys are making up about fuel gelling ! And yes I said when it was -30 the fuel would not run out of a 1 hose to fill the pail to fill the heater tank. !
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Install a drain at the lowest place in the line and open it every now and then.
showcrop
Well-known Member
2X what TF posted. Just as I posted a few days ago, you don't have the problem that you think you do. You don't have water accumulating and freezing in fifteen days. It took more like 15 years of no maintenance. install a drain or more simple yet, just crack open a fitting once a year in the fall.
coonie minnie
Well-known Member
The easiest way to keep water out is once the tank is flushed out, keep the tank full. Condensation occurs when there is open space in the tank.
There are a couple different types of antifreeze additives for fuel.
Look at the fine print and get the right one that is comparable with diesel fuel.
Locally it is the red bottles and is not the cheapest. The yellow bottles are not so compatible with diesel fuels.
The anti gel additives keep the waxy substances from solidifying. They do very little for water in fuel. But they are a good thing to use in diesel/ heating oil below 20 degrees.
The anti- water additives are generally an alcohol that suspends the water mostly safely in the fuel stream, but you need to use a little every now and then, not wait until there is a cupful for water or more sitting in the bottom of the system or already froze up. These wont do much to help,with gelling.
Two separate issues with two separate cures and you need to be aware of both.
Paul
Look at the fine print and get the right one that is comparable with diesel fuel.
Locally it is the red bottles and is not the cheapest. The yellow bottles are not so compatible with diesel fuels.
The anti gel additives keep the waxy substances from solidifying. They do very little for water in fuel. But they are a good thing to use in diesel/ heating oil below 20 degrees.
The anti- water additives are generally an alcohol that suspends the water mostly safely in the fuel stream, but you need to use a little every now and then, not wait until there is a cupful for water or more sitting in the bottom of the system or already froze up. These wont do much to help,with gelling.
Two separate issues with two separate cures and you need to be aware of both.
Paul
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
I would not use additives to remove water from fuel oil. The filter was doing its job by trapping water, but it seems there was more water than it could handle. If the filter had been drained and the element replaced, you probably wouldn't have had problems.
It's important to have a fuel oil tank slightly sloped toward its fuel line so water can't collect in the tank and instead runs into the filter. This isn't too important in a caboose that's always moving, but now that it's stationary you should probably check to see if the tank slopes properly.
It's important to have a fuel oil tank slightly sloped toward its fuel line so water can't collect in the tank and instead runs into the filter. This isn't too important in a caboose that's always moving, but now that it's stationary you should probably check to see if the tank slopes properly.
I thought you tilt it away from the fuel line to prevent water from including itself in your fuel and you put a drain plug at the rear of the tank and periodically check/drain any water. And yes the Goldxxx whatever it is water absorbing filter can get full and would need to be replaced per directions as I recall. My problem with that and I use one, is knowing when its full.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Texasmark, you are correct. I wasn't going to point it out. When I was installing a new boiler five years ago and re-plumbing my tank I decide to also level it. My thinking was and still is that rather than have crud and potentially moisture accumulating at the far end, I would rather be taking care of it through the filter day by day and just change the filter more often and keep a spare on hand just in case.
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