Hydraulic pump revisited

So I am trying to post a question about my hydraulic pump and keep getting a message that I am not using the right words or something. I just need to find out if the coupling failure is due to the pump or something else is wrong.

If this ever goes through, I will try to explain more or maybe I can answer questions.


Ford 851 with Shawnee loader, front mounted Vickers vane pump

Ok, apparently it didn't like the pics I tried to attach.

My loader has slowed down significantly and will not pick up a bucket of dirt. The pump whines considerably and the morflex coupler keeps shelling out.

I use universal hydraulic fluid in it and the level appears to be full.

What do I need to look at? Is it the pump or something else causing the problems?

I will try to attach the pics again.

i think you have to had posted a certain numbers of post before you can post pictures

I think I got it now. Can't post pics from Google Drive.

I sent a pic of the numbers to Eaton and they said I could get a replacement pump for $620. I just don't want to spend that kind
of money only to find out that wasn't the problem. I have not been able to find much info based on the numbers stamped on the
pump.

Also, I apologize for posting a subject that has been previously posted.

Certainly an aged pump. Whining is usually indication of starving for oil. There where the big or
feed line goes in trace back and see if you can find a suction strainer or filter. Man not be
anything but just need to service that filter.

put a pressure gauge in that pressure hose on the pump. u need to know what psi its putting out before any conclusions can be made, and that
coupler is pretty cheesy. takes a lot better coupler than that. so get your gauge in and post your pressure readings while lifting.

Just a Vickers V20 , Not expensive need new Morse coupler too.

If you do find out the pump is bad. The coupler is so wimpy as to be useless. Here is a sample of the real thing. Jim
example

If the loader will stay up with the valve in neutral, that's a sign the
internal cylinder seals are good.

There is a relief valve either in the pump or in the valve. If the spring is
broken or it's stuck, it will slow the lift and reduce power. That will need
to be verified to get a good reading on the pump pressure.

That's not a radiator hose on the suction line is it? If so, the inside may
have collapsed and sucked into the pump. The suction line must be rated for
oil.

Hello Mr. T welcome to YT! Let me make a NEEDED
CLARIFICATION to a suggestion that was given to
check the pump pressure with a gauge. If you read the
entire post with that suggestion you would probably be
fine because the last part makes the needed
clarification, by requesting pressure readings while
operating the loader. I want to clarify that you cannot
connect the gauge directly to the output of the pump
you will want to tee it in. The pump may or may NOT
have a built in relief valve. So if you would block the
flow out of the pump with your gauge and there is no
relief the pump would probably fail as in crack open
due to internal pressure. My apologies if this was
something you already knew. I would say Steve has a
pretty good suggestion with the suction hose that
looks like a radiator hose having an internal layer that
has come apart and is blocking the suction inlet to the
pump.

Jim is on the right track for you. The coupling is not heavy enough for the load. Alignment is also critical for coupling service life. Look at the attaching end at the crankshaft also. What holds it in place just another one of these deals you show or is it bolted to the end of the crank. If bolted check that it turns true then move to the other end for the same thing. IF all checks out then check pump shaft. Yup time consuming but will pay big dividends in the end. Once this is settled then check for obstructions in the oil flow to the pump like plugged filter or screen ,collapsed hose inside, any number of things like that. Maybe even the wt of the oil. To heavy will flow slow when cold and to light will leak by parts in the pump with little wear.

Nothing wrong with flex plate drives he just doesn't have enough plates.

I used them a lot in the textile industry and they hold up well. The smallest I used was 7 plates and the largest had 20.

FYI.
Universal Hyd fluid doesn't work in the winter in my Jubilee's 3 pt hitch. I had to use CNH 134d fluid.

IF your pump is talking, it may be starving for fluid.
Also looks like your pump isn't centered.

Thank you all for your input. Since I am obviously not experienced with hydraulics, I am in no position to argue or question any
of the comments.

I would like to add some info, background, etc. regarding this set up. Maybe it can help clarify solutions.

I got this tractor from my dad in 1999 and have used it extensively around my place. Nothing extreme, but moving dirt, gravel and
snow mostly. About 10 years ago, the pump mounting bracket cracked and we made a new one. At that time, we also replaced the
output shaft from the crank, the flanges and the coupler. We replaced them with the same items that we removed, which had been in
use since who knows when. We took extensive measures to align the pump and I am comfortable that it is still in alignment.
The flex coupling is the same as what we took off and the one in the pic is the current one, and the 2nd new one in the past year.

The starvation issue makes a lot of sense so I will be checking the return route for blockage. I am not sure about the large
return hose, it certainly looks like a coolant hose so I will find one for use with oil.

For a pressure gauge, is location critical? Close to the pump or up by the valve body?

The Hydraulic system is self contained, it is totally separate from the 3 point. The loader frame is the reservoir and there are
no leaks except an occasional need to tighten the flange on one of the lift cylinders.

Sorry for the bad pics, but in the one showing the return hose, there is a cast piece in the line attached to the frame and the
return hose attaches to the top of it. Is this a type of filter? or is it a collector to reduce shock? I have not studied it
yet. There is no filter as I know them, such as a screw on oil filter.

One last thing, the coupling that was posted as a suggestion for a heavier duty one, what are the dimensions? Shaft diameter,
keyway, etc.

Again, thank you all for your input, I am taking it all into consideration. I have followed this site for years with other
tractors, but I had to register again because we couldn't recover old passwords.

The coupler I linked to is available in inch and metric sizes across a wide range of shafts, including the option of two shaft sizes for input output. So it is chosen to fit your application. Jim

The automotive radiator hose in your picture is a suction hose, not return. Oil goes into the pump through that hose and out the smaller high pressure hose at the top of the pump.

The Wye strainer ahead of the suction side hose will work mounted horizontally or vertically. If mounted vertically as yours appears, the blow down trap leg should be pointed down, not up as yours is. Your trap screen may have debris in it which is restricting the flow the way it appears to be mounted. It should have a flow direction arrow on it, so it is not as simple as just flipping it over.

https://www.commercialfiltrationsup...port the existing pipeline with pipe... More

I would suggest checking the alignment, alignments have been known to shift. It only takes a little time if it checks out ok and if it has shifted correcting it may reduce your coupling issues. It may just be the picture but there looks to be an offset to the side when looking at the gaps around the drive studs.

Thanks for the input. I cleaned the strainer and changed position of the Wye and it works so much better now!!! I will replace
the suction hose when I can get one. For the time being I will use the existing hose as it is in good condition and has a coil in
it to prevent collapse. That will give me a chance to run it a little and see if the strainer collects any more. I think all hoses are going to get replaced. The pump actually needs to tilt down on the front side to help with alignment, that's a simple fix too.

BTW, put the pressure gauge where you want to get a reading from. You may need to put it in various locations in the system to get an idea of where you have pressure, and where you don't. Ideally it will be the same everywhere but if there is a restriction or blockage, you will end up with reduced, or more likely no pressure at all.

(quoted from post at 21:03:21 02/01/22) If the loader will stay up with the valve in neutral, that's a sign the
internal cylinder seals are good.

There is a relief valve either in the pump or in the valve. If the spring is
broken or it's stuck, it will slow the lift and reduce power. That will need
to be verified to get a good reading on the pump pressure.

That's not a radiator hose on the suction line is it? If so, the inside may
have collapsed and sucked into the pump. The suction line must be rated for
oil.

Click to expand...

Steve you beat me to it.

I follow this thread and face a similar problem and think and hope you Wizards have an answer. I have a 1964 Ford 4000 (4 cylinder diesel) with a Ford Loader, not sure if it is a 720 or 730 but likely one of those. I have the same pump set up as Tsterrett- notably the exact same coupler and linkage. I have had to change the coupler every couple of years, so I think I agree with caterpillar guy that the coupling is not heavy enough for the load. How do you suggest I put together a heavier replacement that will not tear things up when whatever overload is causing problems now reoccurs?

My pump shaft is .75, as is the shaft; The shaft is a 10 tooth spline that goes into the crankshaft connection and is 8.85 long. The coupler and flanges are as shown here:


I have seen 6 tooth splines shafts, 7/8 shafts with different splines and would really appreciate someone who has gone to a heavier system with success to share that. Thanks!

And if any of you know the Late Pete Piffer, he was always such a knowledble and helpful guy, I would have just called him on this... Please share the name of someone like Pete out there who has such a command on 1960 era Fords... nobody I found in my California central valley has a clue!