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LP tractors pros and cons

Company's like Ensign are no longer around. Parts to repair the carb portion are the worst part as an aftermarket regulator, vaporiser can be replaced with a Centuary assembly.

Most of the time, the engine's themselves look pristine on the inside.

How are you going to fuel it?
 
Burns a lot cleaner. Less engine wear. Fewer oil changes.
Inconvenient to refuel. Hard to find mechanic service when needed (the fuel side of the engine anyways). Obsolete, discontinued, or not available is probably what you gonna find, when looking for propane burning related parts.
 
The best thing is since tanks are under pressure, NO condensation/water in fuel trouble like gas and diesel have. I used to have LP, one old tractor still uses it. Far as systems go, I had the best luck with IMPCO regulators and mixers
 
Fuel consumption is higher than gasoline, fuel price is not always cheap, fuel keeps well for years.

I don't know if LPG engines have good cold starting, a coolant heater would probably help vaporization, but they are very easy starting when warm.

Do you already have a propane tank for home heating or crop drying?
 
Pro; very clean burning. Engine internals will last forever. Fuel never goes bad under pressure.

Con; Hassle of filling. Lower specific density of energy, so lower power output compared to gas or diesel. It can be made up, but the complications of increasing the fuel density make it very hard.
 
(quoted from post at 16:23:10 12/12/21) hey, lets switch to propane/ natural gas engines, less pollution. lol.
Click to expand...
In Toronto, all cabs run on cng. Been that way for years. You can see Crown Vic's with half a million miles on them running like new.
 
I don't know if it is true, but I've heard users say they thought the exhaust from L.P. produced a deeper sunburn to the skin.

Some guys talked of smearing vasoline on their arms before heading to the field.
 
Less engine wear only applys to the bottom end running in oil. The valve guides on propane engines wear a lot faster due to the dryness of propane. So no use trying to say no. Seen quite a few when I was working in GM garage in the 70s. The stems would be just flopping around they were worn so bad on propane conversions. Gas engines were never worn like that. Same with those natural gas stationary engines on oil pumps. The valves done hold up. Same deal fuel is too dry to do any lubing.
 
(quoted from post at 19:48:05 12/12/21) Less engine wear only applys to the bottom end running in oil. The valve guides on propane engines wear a lot faster due to the dryness of propane. So no use trying to say no. Seen quite a few when I was working in GM garage in the 70s. The stems would be just flopping around they were worn so bad on propane conversions. Gas engines were never worn like that. Same with those natural gas stationary engines on oil pumps. The valves done hold up. Same deal fuel is too dry to do any lubing.
Click to expand...
If you're saying that there haven't been any technological improvements in the last 50 years, I disagree.
 
I had a 76 Ford pickup with a propane carb. It would also run on gasoline. With the 360 engine with 8 to one compression, that got 12 MPG on gasoline, it only got 10 MPG on propane. With the 460 engine with 10.5 to one pistons, the mileage was the same with either gasoline or propane at 10 MPG. I couldn't tell much difference in power. Propane engines need at least 14 to one compression ratio. With a high compression ratio I believe the propane engine would put out more power than gasoline!
My neighbor was telling me that some guys were running diesel engines that ran on diesel and propane together. They supposedly were really putting out some power!
I now have that same carb on a little Subaru car!
 
(quoted from post at 22:42:30 12/12/21) I had a 76 Ford pickup with a propane carb. It would also run on gasoline. With the 360 engine with 8 to one compression, that got 12 MPG on gasoline, it only got 10 MPG on propane. With the 460 engine with 10.5 to one pistons, the mileage was the same with either gasoline or propane at 10 MPG. I couldn't tell much difference in power. Propane engines need at least 14 to one compression ratio. With a high compression ratio I believe the propane engine would put out more power than gasoline!
My neighbor was telling me that some guys were running diesel engines that ran on diesel and propane together. They supposedly were really putting out some power!
I now have that same carb on a little Subaru car!
Click to expand...
Propane is used as an injectable enhancement on diesel engines in much the same way as nitrous oxide on a gas engine.
 
I had a late 70's F250 converted to propane. It'd always start, no matter how cold (at least to -30) but if too cold, it'd run out of gas once I left the driveway and got on the road. I put a tank heater on it, and then the coolant was warm enough to vaporize the LP no matter how cold the morning. I'd plug in if going to be down to zero or lower.

I miss that old girl.
 
My dad had two customers that had LPgas tractors. One was a 630 john deere the other was a 730 Case. The 630 had to have valve work yearly. Valve seats pounded out. Dad never touched the valves on the 730 but it went through lp regulators.
 
Years ago, when I owned my fuel business, if I went buy this guys place with the lp truck and the D19 was sitting out by the highway, I'd stop and fill it. Only drawback is filling them. If you aint scared of LP, you can open the bleader valve on the tractor and it will fill.
 

The huge advantage of LP is long gone. Out west the fuel was free if you had a well on your land. Thats why there ever was an LP tractor. Minneapolis moline got into them big time. They even made big articulated tractors in LP.

Other than that, not much advantage to running one. Due to LP not having as many calories than gasoline and far less than diesel, they are very inefficient. If youve ever seen an LP 4020 versus a gasoline or diesel 4020, you will understand what I mean.

As far as getting someone to work on them, your best bet probably is to find a forklift mechanic. There are millions of LP forklifts running around in warehouses across the country.
 
(quoted from post at 19:50:12 12/12/21)
(quoted from post at 22:42:30 12/12/21) I had a 76 Ford pickup with a propane carb. It would also run on gasoline. With the 360 engine with 8 to one compression, that got 12 MPG on gasoline, it only got 10 MPG on propane. With the 460 engine with 10.5 to one pistons, the mileage was the same with either gasoline or propane at 10 MPG. I couldn't tell much difference in power. Propane engines need at least 14 to one compression ratio. With a high compression ratio I believe the propane engine would put out more power than gasoline!
My neighbor was telling me that some guys were running diesel engines that ran on diesel and propane together. They supposedly were really putting out some power!
I now have that same carb on a little Subaru car!
Click to expand...
Propane is used as an injectable enhancement on diesel engines in much the same way as nitrous oxide on a gas engine.
Click to expand...

Please go ahead and explain how nitrous alone adds power to a gasoline engine .
Adding LP to a diesel only works if there is enough unused O2 to allow complete combustion .
LP does not have a high enough octane to be operated in a Diesel engine with pilot injection at full power .
As soon as the amount of LP injected into the intake rises above the LEL . The engine will suffer from detonation .
A diesel will operate just fine on NG at
Full power when using a pilot ignition system . NG octane rating is much higher than LP .
 
The pros of propane are it is cheaper than other fuels, even though you will use a little more, my JD 3020lp would run about seven hours on a full load of lp while running a disc mower. That's what it took me to cut and trim up my forty acre hay patch. Easy to work on.

The cons are no low end torque like a diesel. You have to be more thoughtful of how far you are from the fuel tank or have a nurse tank to haul around.

Overall, I thought it was a really good haying tractor (I used it for that for the last 15 years I did hay) but I would not have wanted to do plowing or other dirt work with it.

This post was edited by steve in ok on 12/13/2021 at 05:28 am.
 
(quoted from post at 11:43:29 12/13/21)
(quoted from post at 19:50:12 12/12/21)
(quoted from post at 22:42:30 12/12/21) I had a 76 Ford pickup with a propane carb. It would also run on gasoline. With the 360 engine with 8 to one compression, that got 12 MPG on gasoline, it only got 10 MPG on propane. With the 460 engine with 10.5 to one pistons, the mileage was the same with either gasoline or propane at 10 MPG. I couldn't tell much difference in power. Propane engines need at least 14 to one compression ratio. With a high compression ratio I believe the propane engine would put out more power than gasoline!
My neighbor was telling me that some guys were running diesel engines that ran on diesel and propane together. They supposedly were really putting out some power!
I now have that same carb on a little Subaru car!
Click to expand...
Propane is used as an injectable enhancement on diesel engines in much the same way as nitrous oxide on a gas engine.
Click to expand...

Please go ahead and explain how nitrous alone adds power to a gasoline engine .
Adding LP to a diesel only works if there is enough unused O2 to allow complete combustion .
LP does not have a high enough octane to be operated in a Diesel engine with pilot injection at full power .
As soon as the amount of LP injected into the intake rises above the LEL . The engine will suffer from detonation .
A diesel will operate just fine on NG at
Full power when using a pilot ignition system . NG octane rating is much higher than LP .
Click to expand...
I am very sorry that my post upset your sensibilities. I simply meant that the diesel guys use propane to get "a little more", and the gas guys use nitrous to get "a little more". Of course, the nitrous guys have to add additional fuel to keep from melting pistons, but my point was the "a little more" factor. Again, please accept my humble apology.
 
(quoted from post at 05:43:29 12/13/21)
(quoted from post at 19:50:12 12/12/21)
(quoted from post at 22:42:30 12/12/21) I had a 76 Ford pickup with a propane carb. It would also run on gasoline. With the 360 engine with 8 to one compression, that got 12 MPG on gasoline, it only got 10 MPG on propane. With the 460 engine with 10.5 to one pistons, the mileage was the same with either gasoline or propane at 10 MPG. I couldn't tell much difference in power. Propane engines need at least 14 to one compression ratio. With a high compression ratio I believe the propane engine would put out more power than gasoline!
My neighbor was telling me that some guys were running diesel engines that ran on diesel and propane together. They supposedly were really putting out some power!
I now have that same carb on a little Subaru car!
Click to expand...
Propane is used as an injectable enhancement on diesel engines in much the same way as [b:f8da0de2dd]nitrous oxide[/b:f8da0de2dd] on a gas engine.
Click to expand...
itrous alone[/b:f8da0de2dd] adds power to a gasoline engine .
Adding LP to a diesel only works if there is enough[b:f8da0de2dd] unused O2 to allow complete combustion . [/b:f8da0de2dd]
LP does not have a high enough octane to be operated in a Diesel engine with pilot injection at full power .
As soon as the amount of LP injected into the intake rises above the LEL . The engine will suffer from detonation .
A diesel will operate just fine on NG at
Full power when using a pilot ignition system . NG octane rating is much higher than LP .
Click to expand...

Well, first off - he said "nitrous oxide", and you re-named it as "nitrous"(I don't know what that is, but maybe you can explain what "nitrous" is to us).

Second, Nitrous Oxide (N2O) is a very strong oxidizer. Which means, it produces a lot of free O2 for added combustion of most carbon and hydrocarbon based fuels.

Third, when N2O is injected into any internal combustion engine, it is almost always combined with an added fuel injector to make up the correct stoichiometric ratio to burn inside the cyl.


I agree "nitrous" alone(whatever that is after you tell us) won't do anything without concomitant added fuel. Doesn't matter to me if one adds LP, gasoline, butane, diesel, kerosene, etc. BTW, N2O has been used in rocketry to increase the O2 content of the engine during the later phase of the burn where the inert N2 is a cooling agent for the manifold rings which tend to get darn hot and burn off.

This post was edited by docmirror on 12/13/2021 at 09:20 am.
 
(quoted from post at 13:19:46 12/13/21)
(quoted from post at 05:43:29 12/13/21)
(quoted from post at 19:50:12 12/12/21)
(quoted from post at 22:42:30 12/12/21) I had a 76 Ford pickup with a propane carb. It would also run on gasoline. With the 360 engine with 8 to one compression, that got 12 MPG on gasoline, it only got 10 MPG on propane. With the 460 engine with 10.5 to one pistons, the mileage was the same with either gasoline or propane at 10 MPG. I couldn't tell much difference in power. Propane engines need at least 14 to one compression ratio. With a high compression ratio I believe the propane engine would put out more power than gasoline!
My neighbor was telling me that some guys were running diesel engines that ran on diesel and propane together. They supposedly were really putting out some power!
I now have that same carb on a little Subaru car!
Click to expand...
Propane is used as an injectable enhancement on diesel engines in much the same way as [b:8e20e6b243]nitrous oxide[/b:8e20e6b243] on a gas engine.
Click to expand...

Please go ahead and explain how [b:8e20e6b243]nitrous alone[/b:8e20e6b243] adds power to a gasoline engine .
Adding LP to a diesel only works if there is enough[b:8e20e6b243] unused O2 to allow complete combustion . [/b:8e20e6b243]
LP does not have a high enough octane to be operated in a Diesel engine with pilot injection at full power .
As soon as the amount of LP injected into the intake rises above the LEL . The engine will suffer from detonation .
A diesel will operate just fine on NG at
Full power when using a pilot ignition system . NG octane rating is much higher than LP .
Click to expand...

Well, first off - he said "nitrous oxide", and you re-named it as "nitrous"(I don't know what that is, but maybe you can explain what "nitrous" is to us).

Second, Nitrous Oxide (N2O) is a very strong oxidizer. Which means, it produces a lot of free O2 for added combustion of most carbon and hydrocarbon based fuels.

Third, when N2O is injected into any internal combustion engine, it is almost always combined with an added fuel injector to make up the correct stoichiometric ratio to burn inside the cyl.


I agree "nitrous" alone(whatever that is after you tell us) won't do anything without concomitant added fuel. Doesn't matter to me if one adds LP, gasoline, butane, diesel, kerosene, etc. BTW, N2O has been used in rocketry to increase the O2 content of the engine during the later phase of the burn where the inert N2 is a cooling agent for the manifold rings which tend to get darn hot and burn off.

This post was edited by docmirror on 12/13/2021 at 09:20 am.
Click to expand...
mvphoto85741.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 10:57:42 12/13/21)
(quoted from post at 13:19:46 12/13/21)
(quoted from post at 05:43:29 12/13/21)
(quoted from post at 19:50:12 12/12/21)
(quoted from post at 22:42:30 12/12/21) I had a 76 Ford pickup with a propane carb. It would also run on gasoline. With the 360 engine with 8 to one compression, that got 12 MPG on gasoline, it only got 10 MPG on propane. With the 460 engine with 10.5 to one pistons, the mileage was the same with either gasoline or propane at 10 MPG. I couldn't tell much difference in power. Propane engines need at least 14 to one compression ratio. With a high compression ratio I believe the propane engine would put out more power than gasoline!
My neighbor was telling me that some guys were running diesel engines that ran on diesel and propane together. They supposedly were really putting out some power!
I now have that same carb on a little Subaru car!
Click to expand...
Propane is used as an injectable enhancement on diesel engines in much the same way as [b:5dce760d9a]nitrous oxide[/b:5dce760d9a] on a gas engine.
Click to expand...

Please go ahead and explain how [b:5dce760d9a]nitrous alone[/b:5dce760d9a] adds power to a gasoline engine .
Adding LP to a diesel only works if there is enough[b:5dce760d9a] unused O2 to allow complete combustion . [/b:5dce760d9a]
LP does not have a high enough octane to be operated in a Diesel engine with pilot injection at full power .
As soon as the amount of LP injected into the intake rises above the LEL . The engine will suffer from detonation .
A diesel will operate just fine on NG at
Full power when using a pilot ignition system . NG octane rating is much higher than LP .
Click to expand...

Well, first off - he said "nitrous oxide", and you re-named it as "nitrous"(I don't know what that is, but maybe you can explain what "nitrous" is to us).

Second, Nitrous Oxide (N2O) is a very strong oxidizer. Which means, it produces a lot of free O2 for added combustion of most carbon and hydrocarbon based fuels.

Third, when N2O is injected into any internal combustion engine, it is almost always combined with an added fuel injector to make up the correct stoichiometric ratio to burn inside the cyl.


I agree "nitrous" alone(whatever that is after you tell us) won't do anything without concomitant added fuel. Doesn't matter to me if one adds LP, gasoline, butane, diesel, kerosene, etc. BTW, N2O has been used in rocketry to increase the O2 content of the engine during the later phase of the burn where the inert N2 is a cooling agent for the manifold rings which tend to get darn hot and burn off.

This post was edited by docmirror on 12/13/2021 at 09:20 am.
Click to expand...
mvphoto85741.jpg
Click to expand...

got it, so nitrous - IS nitrous oxide, which is a strong oxidizer, which can be used in an internal combustion engine WITH a fuel to increase power. I hope this clear up your confusion previously.
 
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