It occurred to me to wonder if modern hour meters are measuring the same thing as the analog meters on my -40 and-50 series John Deere tractors. I bought a Case IH 75c Farmall tractor with about 900 hours on it. In a year, I added close to 400 hours, which is about double what I was putting on the the JD 2640 it replaced. My question assumes that the the older tractors are measuring hours at a standard engine rpm and that it seems like the newer tractor is just measuring the hours the engine is on, whether its idling or pulling PTO rpm. Please enlighten me
- Thread starter taem
- Start date
john in la
Well-known Member
For me an hour meter should record every second the motor is running like a clock.
Idle or high RPM all the same.
That is kind of hard to do unless you use something like an oil pressure solenoid to turn the clock on.
Most modern electric gauges just use the key switch to turn them on and call it close enough.
They assume if the key is on the motor is running.
Not always the case but like I said close enough.
For a gauge run by a cable you have to have some give and take.
If you set it to record at idle it will way over clock at PTO RPM.
If you set it to be correct ant PTO RPM it will way under clock at idle.
An example.
I bought the pickup I have now used when it was 13 months old based on the first plate from the state.
It had 2500 idle hours and 4200 miles.
Do that math and you will see you need a gauge that will record idle hours accurately.
Idle or high RPM all the same.
That is kind of hard to do unless you use something like an oil pressure solenoid to turn the clock on.
Most modern electric gauges just use the key switch to turn them on and call it close enough.
They assume if the key is on the motor is running.
Not always the case but like I said close enough.
For a gauge run by a cable you have to have some give and take.
If you set it to record at idle it will way over clock at PTO RPM.
If you set it to be correct ant PTO RPM it will way under clock at idle.
An example.
I bought the pickup I have now used when it was 13 months old based on the first plate from the state.
It had 2500 idle hours and 4200 miles.
Do that math and you will see you need a gauge that will record idle hours accurately.
tractorsam
Well-known Member
A friend of mine ran an IH dealership back when IH switched from mechanical to electrical hour meters. He has always said that his customers roughly doubled the hours they put on a tractor in a year when they went to the electric hour meters.
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
Right. I was working at a dealership when the change took place. I remember being sent out with a new tach to install under warranty, as usual, with no explanation. I ran the tractor first and could find no problem. I made the change. While leaving, I ran into the farmer returning on his JD 520 with cultivator. I asked him what was up, and he said the new tractor was gaining hours about twice as fast as his other tractors! Then I explained to him that he could set his watch by the hour meter. It required two things to count hours- the key on, and the alternator turning. Engine speed didn't matter. So, leaving the key on didn't mess up true run time.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Are you talking about a proofmeter, where the hourmeter is integrated with the tachometer? Or a 'Hobbes' meter that's standalone? Even with a digital proofmeter, the hours COULD be based on engine RPM but probably aren't. Your operator manual will probably tell you. Hobbes meters measure actual time, because they don't have access to engine rpm.
If your tractor has an computerized engine control module, I suspect the ECM on your tractor knows more than just the number of revolutions or number of hours the tractor has operated. My outboard motor's tachometer indicates the number of hours the motor has operated, but if I plugged the outboard into a computer I could find out the number of hours it has operated at different RPMs. Obviously a hundred hours at 6000 rpm is different than a hundred hours at 3500 rpm or at idle.
If your tractor has an computerized engine control module, I suspect the ECM on your tractor knows more than just the number of revolutions or number of hours the tractor has operated. My outboard motor's tachometer indicates the number of hours the motor has operated, but if I plugged the outboard into a computer I could find out the number of hours it has operated at different RPMs. Obviously a hundred hours at 6000 rpm is different than a hundred hours at 3500 rpm or at idle.
tomstractorsandtoys
Well-known Member
I heard of an extremely low hour 4455 Deere that was part of a collection that the grandkids were playing in the cab and left the key on and it was not found for a very long time. Tom
I have seen a jd tractor with over 20 thousand hours on the tack but looked like it had done no work. I was told they had left the key on all the time ad the turned it all the way back and then it was counting. Not sure if they are designed that way but it was a low hour tractor as they had used it to lift logs on a saw mill and we knew they did very little mill work.
depends on what you consider accurate
as others mentioned 1 hour at idle at 1000 rpm is not much work compared to 1 hours at 2200 rpm.
the old mechanical meters give working hour equivalent in other words IF the tractor was running at PTO speed it would be an hour. so 2 hours of idle (1/2 PTO speed) would be considered 1 hour on the clock or 1 hour worth of PTO rated work.
modern car oil life monitors kinda do the same thing. light driving it will rate the oil life longer than if it idles alot or was working hard towing all day everyday. (yes the computer CAN figure all that out if programed right).
as others mentioned 1 hour at idle at 1000 rpm is not much work compared to 1 hours at 2200 rpm.
the old mechanical meters give working hour equivalent in other words IF the tractor was running at PTO speed it would be an hour. so 2 hours of idle (1/2 PTO speed) would be considered 1 hour on the clock or 1 hour worth of PTO rated work.
modern car oil life monitors kinda do the same thing. light driving it will rate the oil life longer than if it idles alot or was working hard towing all day everyday. (yes the computer CAN figure all that out if programed right).
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
Here is a recent post on the same subject, posts there explain the cable drive tach as a revolution counter which I see as true. Generally a mechanical drive tach will tell you at what rpm the hour meter in the tach will count hours properly to match time. Say you constantly run the tractor at half that rpm, it would then take 2 hours to add one hour to the meter. Yes, a newer tractor just reads strictly by time.
Another post on subject
Another post on subject
chuck from neb
Member
A 4455 has to be running for the hour meter to add up hours
You sure. That would be odd I believe. All row crop 40 series and previous used what I like to call the slow hour meter. It would only be accurate if ran at rated pto speed. 40 utility series old body style and previous would be the same slow meter.
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