- Thread starter Bkpigs
- Start date
stevieb49829
Well-known Member
- Location
- Spirit Lake, Idaho
That label is really hard to understand, so I'll let someone else decipher it, but: Rotation is looking at the shaft/pulley.
stevieb49829
Well-known Member
- Location
- Spirit Lake, Idaho
It would also help to have a photo of the wiring points under the safety cover.
JustIn Case
Member
Ok, the way I see it this motor is 115 volt only. So it only has a start winding and a run winding. At this point we dont really care which is which but the start winding will likely have a speed switch an/or capacitor in series with it. BUT looking at this in an elementary sense winding X has terminals 1&3. The other winding Y is between terminals 2&4. Flipping one winding end for end will make the motor start in the opposite direction. When I went to school nearly 40 years ago we were schooled that motor rotation was viewed on the non shaft or bell end.(quoted from post at 11:37:48 11/30/21) For some reason I am having a brain fart. How would I wire this motor? Having the L1 and L2 on 3 and 1 but then showing 3 and 1 connected for CCW. Also, I can never remember how you tell the direction of rotation. Looking at the shaft end or the fan end?
Thanks!
I will try to get around to getting a picture of the connections when I get home.(quoted from post at 18:33:08 11/30/21)Ok, the way I see it this motor is 115 volt only. So it only has a start winding and a run winding. At this point we dont really care which is which but the start winding will likely have a speed switch an/or capacitor in series with it. BUT looking at this in an elementary sense winding X has terminals 1&3. The other winding Y is between terminals 2&4. Flipping one winding end for end will make the motor start in the opposite direction. When I went to school nearly 40 years ago we were schooled that motor rotation was viewed on the non shaft or bell end.(quoted from post at 11:37:48 11/30/21) For some reason I am having a brain fart. How would I wire this motor? Having the L1 and L2 on 3 and 1 but then showing 3 and 1 connected for CCW. Also, I can never remember how you tell the direction of rotation. Looking at the shaft end or the fan end?
Thanks!
kfgoeckner
Member
Rotation is facing opposite shaft end or end where the leads enter the motor. That diagram is real confusing.
Guess i might as well jump in...When referring to rotation of a motor, the wording is DE or
NDE, which is Drive End or Non Drive End, looking at the NDE is common, however when using
the DE/NDE terms, people will recognize what they are talking /looking at, and visualize what can
be connected to it.
And the connections I see are : For CCW rotation connect 2 and 4 to L2, 1 and 3 to L1.....
for CW connect 1 and 2 to L2, and 3 and 4 to L1.
Not the best of info on that tag, and not able to read what is next to the L2 point, hope it helps.
NDE, which is Drive End or Non Drive End, looking at the NDE is common, however when using
the DE/NDE terms, people will recognize what they are talking /looking at, and visualize what can
be connected to it.
And the connections I see are : For CCW rotation connect 2 and 4 to L2, 1 and 3 to L1.....
for CW connect 1 and 2 to L2, and 3 and 4 to L1.
Not the best of info on that tag, and not able to read what is next to the L2 point, hope it helps.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
For CCW connect 2 to 4 and 1 to 3 .
JustIn Case
Member
The nameplate leaves a lot to be desired as others have also commented. Without a photo of the whole motor I cant tell just what type of motor it is. I dont see a capacitor anywhere so Im guessing this is just a plain old 115 volt induction start/induction run motor. Id love to post a sketch on here but Im not sure how to do this. Anyway since this is a single voltage single phase motor it is only going to have two windings hence four leads. If one has an Ohm meter or way to check resistance/continuity they likely will find continuity between terminals 1&3. Then check for continuity between terminals 2&4. If they read the resistance in Ohms the lower resistance winding will be the run winding. The higher resistance reading will probably be the start winding. If there is a way to operate the centrifugal start switch the start winding will show open when the switch is activated. In operation once the motor is up and running the centrifugal
Start switch opens disconnecting the start winding. If I were to be on this Id bet the run winding is between terms 1&3.
To reverse the motor rotation we just have to flip flop the start winding, in essence running current through in the opposite direction if we look at it as if this was a DC motor which it is not but that an example. Hope this helps, the nameplate could have been made easier to understand if theyd drawn a winding between 1&3 and another winding between 2&4.
K, buickanddeere, you don't post pictures, but can you comment on my picture/sketch?(quoted from post at 16:25:10 12/01/21)ey, JustIN Case, I sure appreciate you trying to shed some light , but I guess I'm still missing something. See sketch and please comment. Thanks.
The diagram on the motor seems clear. The left side is just an example of how it was wired, in this case, CW. (1 to 2) and (3 to 4), those two groups also get L1 and L2. For CCW (1 to 3) and (2 to 4) form two groups and each of the groups get a line input. So L1 to the (1 to 3) group and L2 to the (2 to 4) group. I believe the left part of the wiring diagram is just an example as to how it was wired from the factory.
What is not clear, at least to me, is the photo of the actual wires. Where are the wires coming from? Which are the motor wires and which are the line inputs? There appears to be large yellow, black, blue, and red wires. Are they from the BX conduit on the side? If so, why 4 wires for 120 volts? Was there some type of reversing switch at the other end of the BX conduit? Either way, I would just wire it according to the diagram and see which direction it will run. The worst that will happen is it will trip a breaker but if you wire it according to the diagram most likely it will run just fine.
It also appears to be a capacitor start motor since the one photo shows what looks like the case for the capacitor. However it could be a PSC motor but still nothing bad should happen when wired according to the diagram.
What is not clear, at least to me, is the photo of the actual wires. Where are the wires coming from? Which are the motor wires and which are the line inputs? There appears to be large yellow, black, blue, and red wires. Are they from the BX conduit on the side? If so, why 4 wires for 120 volts? Was there some type of reversing switch at the other end of the BX conduit? Either way, I would just wire it according to the diagram and see which direction it will run. The worst that will happen is it will trip a breaker but if you wire it according to the diagram most likely it will run just fine.
It also appears to be a capacitor start motor since the one photo shows what looks like the case for the capacitor. However it could be a PSC motor but still nothing bad should happen when wired according to the diagram.
The photo of the wires is not clear on my phone and a better photo with the wires somewhat separated would help but I see 4 smaller wires, (red, blue, black, yellow) and 5 larger wires, (red, blue, black, orange, yellow). The larger wires look like they all turn towards the BX cable. The larger blue wire is capped off and does not appear to be used. The motor should have 4 small wires which it does although the orange wire listed on the label is now blue. Each of the 4 motor smaller wires is connected to one of the larger BX cable wires. I am assuming the original fiber terminal plate in the motor is gone and the wires are just loose. It appears, to me, the motor was switchable by a drum switch or what ever type of DPDT switch at the other end of the BX cable. That would explain why all 4 motor wires run separately through the BX cable as in the connections in the photo.
For the smaller motor wires: black is 1, blue is 2, red is 3, yellow is 4. But then again, I may be completely wrong.
However, I would wire 1 and 3 together, black to red, and connect that pair to one line in wire. I would then connect 2 and 4 together, blue and yellow, and connect that pair to the other line input. Stand back and throw the switch and see if it works.
Knowing the history of the motor would also help. What was it originally used for?
For the smaller motor wires: black is 1, blue is 2, red is 3, yellow is 4. But then again, I may be completely wrong.
However, I would wire 1 and 3 together, black to red, and connect that pair to one line in wire. I would then connect 2 and 4 together, blue and yellow, and connect that pair to the other line input. Stand back and throw the switch and see if it works.
Knowing the history of the motor would also help. What was it originally used for?
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Start capacitor is wired in series with the start winding .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Polarity and wiring of the main windings stay the same , no matter the direction of rotation.
Swapping the polarity of the start winding is what reverses the motor rotation.
In case you haven't noticed, I like pictures & drawings. 
Not so fast in thanking me. The wiring terminal numbers I posted is correct, however, I do not think the terminal numbers correspond to the wire colors I posted. I do not believe the terminal numbers on that motor are standard. Normally there would be 1,4 as the run windings and 5,8 as the start. They used 1,4 as the run and 2,3 as the start windings and that fits with the label. But the colors I posted do not fit with normal motor standards. Typically the run winding colors would be blue and yellow as numbers 1,4. The start windings would be black and red as 2,3.
If you go by actual standard wire colors then L1, blue, black together and L2, yellow, red. To reverse direction just switch red and black. I believe the label is referring to the wire colors from a specific application going to the motor rather than the internal wire colors. There should be continuity between blue and yellow as the run winding. There may be continuity between red and black as the start capacitor charges.
What I posted previously is correct for the label but I don't believe the label is correct for the actual internal wire colors. check with an ohm meter to be sure but I now believe the run windings are blue,yellow and the start windings are red,black.
If you go by actual standard wire colors then L1, blue, black together and L2, yellow, red. To reverse direction just switch red and black. I believe the label is referring to the wire colors from a specific application going to the motor rather than the internal wire colors. There should be continuity between blue and yellow as the run winding. There may be continuity between red and black as the start capacitor charges.
What I posted previously is correct for the label but I don't believe the label is correct for the actual internal wire colors. check with an ohm meter to be sure but I now believe the run windings are blue,yellow and the start windings are red,black.
JustIn Case
Member
I feel pretty foolish saying that 1-3 is one winding and 2-4 the other. Sorry if I have led astray. Ohmmeter or continuity between terminals would still help. If it is a capacitor motor PSC or otherwise lifting one wire off of the Cap should make the start/auxiliary winding pair of terminals go open.
Until the OP gets back with more information it is all just guessing.
I believe this motor was part of a whole dedicated setup and the label reflects two parts of the needed setup information. Under the section labeled "115 volt connection" is the information needed to wire the far end of the BX cable to the piece of equipment. The terminals 1,2,3,4 under that section are for the external equipment board not the internal motor terminal board. The label section under the heading of "rotation" is for the internal terminal board that was inside the motor although that board appears to be missing in the photo. Those numbers apply to the internal motor terminal board not the external equipment terminal board that would have been at the far end of the BX cable. Two different terminal boards and different connections that happen to both be labeled 1 to 4 but the terminals and their numbers are not the same board and are not equivalent.
The thin wire motor wire colors are likely correct and reflect the standard motor wire colors for run and start. The BX cable wires likely are the colors the manufacturer chose to run external of the motor to their particular piece of equipment but do not represent the standard internal motor wires. That is why the "115 volt connection" section has listed colors that match the BX cable wire colors, the larger wires, but are different from the colors of the thinner motor wires.
That one large label should really be two smaller labels since two separate parts of the wiring are represented, the motor to equipment external wiring under the "115 volt connection" and the actual internal motor wiring that everyone is used to under the "rotation" heading.
Besides waiting for the OP to respond, I would run it with thin motor wires L1, blue, Black together and L2, yellow, red together. I would ignore the colors of the larger wires altogether.
It is hard to know if the order of the larger wires is correct since they are connected with wirenuts and may have been inadvertently wired incorrectly sometime in the past. The thinner motor wire colors do fit the standard for motor wire colors so using those colors as a guide should produce a working motor.
I believe this motor was part of a whole dedicated setup and the label reflects two parts of the needed setup information. Under the section labeled "115 volt connection" is the information needed to wire the far end of the BX cable to the piece of equipment. The terminals 1,2,3,4 under that section are for the external equipment board not the internal motor terminal board. The label section under the heading of "rotation" is for the internal terminal board that was inside the motor although that board appears to be missing in the photo. Those numbers apply to the internal motor terminal board not the external equipment terminal board that would have been at the far end of the BX cable. Two different terminal boards and different connections that happen to both be labeled 1 to 4 but the terminals and their numbers are not the same board and are not equivalent.
The thin wire motor wire colors are likely correct and reflect the standard motor wire colors for run and start. The BX cable wires likely are the colors the manufacturer chose to run external of the motor to their particular piece of equipment but do not represent the standard internal motor wires. That is why the "115 volt connection" section has listed colors that match the BX cable wire colors, the larger wires, but are different from the colors of the thinner motor wires.
That one large label should really be two smaller labels since two separate parts of the wiring are represented, the motor to equipment external wiring under the "115 volt connection" and the actual internal motor wiring that everyone is used to under the "rotation" heading.
Besides waiting for the OP to respond, I would run it with thin motor wires L1, blue, Black together and L2, yellow, red together. I would ignore the colors of the larger wires altogether.
It is hard to know if the order of the larger wires is correct since they are connected with wirenuts and may have been inadvertently wired incorrectly sometime in the past. The thinner motor wire colors do fit the standard for motor wire colors so using those colors as a guide should produce a working motor.
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