Ok thanks for any help .. first time posting here . Trying to help a friend out .. he has a Massey Ferguson 165 continental 4 cyl he has been having issues statrting since he got it ..as of now have spark have fuel .. turns over but will not fire for nothing .. I have done all the normal new points rotor cap condenser, full rebuild on carb .. but no change .. last time he had it running it was running really ruff ..will not even fire with small amounts of starting fluid .. Im starting to think , timing I have moved distributor with no change .. I did notice two things that concern me today .. he change oil about a week ago and its over full about a qt not a good thing .. second thing is the exhaust flipper is not popping off it stays flat when cranking .. thanks for any help
- Thread starter Ssjim2001
- Start date
Ok thanks for any help .. first time posting here . Trying to help a friend out .. he has a Massey Ferguson 165 continental 4 cyl he has been having issues statrting since he got it ..as of now have spark have fuel .. turns over but will not fire for nothing .. I have done all the normal new points rotor cap condenser, full rebuild on carb .. but no change .. last time he had it running it was running really ruff ..will not even fire with small amounts of starting fluid .. Im starting to think , timing I have moved distributor with no change .. I did notice two things that concern me today .. he change oil about a week ago and its over full about a qt not a good thing .. second thing is the exhaust flipper is not popping off it stays flat when cranking .. thanks for any help
Dieseltech
Well-known Member
- Location
- Akron, Indiana
Remove the plugs, open the throttle and choke and do a compression test to verify engine is in good condition. Engine MAY have low/no compression needed to start and run.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
Yes, do a compression check, and then squirt some oil in each cylinder and do it over again! I was given and old Wisconsin 2-cyinder once, I cranked on it until I was out of breath a few times, nothing. I put some oil in the cylinders and it started right up! I later learned a shut down procedure on here for Wisconsin's, when you done using it for the season. Running at a fast idle, squirt oil in the intake until it almost dies, then shut it down. It has started reliable ever since.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Diagnose first then change parts!!!! putting parts in can create more problems compounding the fault. Easy first checks: Take the air intake hose/pipe off the carburetor, open the throttle to 1/2 open, and (safely in neutral) hold your hand over the intake while cranking the engine with the starter. There should be very strong suction. If there is none or very little, it is an indication of valve timing issues. This assumes the engine has run OK before it started to decline.
If good suction, checking the fuel flow to the carb is next. It needs to flow for one minute and fill a pint or more into a clean jar.
Is there Spark?, does the spark come out of the plug wires? Are the wires on the correct plugs in the firing order? are the points gapped correctly on the peak of the distributor cam? Is there play up down toward and away in the distributor shaft?
is there power to the coil using a test light? Does a test light blink when touching the distributor side of the coil when cranking?
All these should be able to be done with low effort. Then if the issue has not been found, do a compression check. Jim
If good suction, checking the fuel flow to the carb is next. It needs to flow for one minute and fill a pint or more into a clean jar.
Is there Spark?, does the spark come out of the plug wires? Are the wires on the correct plugs in the firing order? are the points gapped correctly on the peak of the distributor cam? Is there play up down toward and away in the distributor shaft?
is there power to the coil using a test light? Does a test light blink when touching the distributor side of the coil when cranking?
All these should be able to be done with low effort. Then if the issue has not been found, do a compression check. Jim
derwen1959
Member
There's no mention about cleaning air filter... I remember an engine expert telling me a badly worn engine should start if you put a small amount of engine oil through each plug hole and it improve compression... too much oil in sump does not help... also could modern gasoline be causing problem
derwen1959
Member
Sorry Russ from MN for repeating what you already said
Thanks very much for reply .. ok so yes loads of suction at carb .. air filter new points gap is correct
, with cap and rotor off turn it over have loads of spark at points , all new plugs spark when motor is turned over when plug wires hook up and yes have power at coil .. I tried small amount oil in cylinders this morning with no change .. was going to check compression but forgot its old style plugs .. I did put finger over the hole and all seemed to have same compression.. Im out of town couple days .. when I get back Ill get different compression tester and up date post .. thanks for your time
, with cap and rotor off turn it over have loads of spark at points , all new plugs spark when motor is turned over when plug wires hook up and yes have power at coil .. I tried small amount oil in cylinders this morning with no change .. was going to check compression but forgot its old style plugs .. I did put finger over the hole and all seemed to have same compression.. Im out of town couple days .. when I get back Ill get different compression tester and up date post .. thanks for your time
derwen1959
Member
Something I just remembered from some years ago but I don't know if it could apply to your tractor.... a car would not start , the engine was turning over and there was a strong smell of gasoline then the passengers got out and after pushing just a short distance it started
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Was fuel flowing well at the inlet to the carb or a carb drain? Are the plugs wet? if so dry them with a propane torch until they are so hot the ground electrode is red. (not a oxy acetylene) Then let them cool some and put them in warm. Jim
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
A. Was there gas on your hand or did it drip out of the carb after you checked for suction on the carb intake? If not you need to figure out why. Does the bottom of the carb have a drain or plug? Open that to see if you have fuel and flow there.
B. If A was not the problem you need to establish if your timing is right and if the wires are on the distributor correctly. That means you have to get the engine on Top Dead Center of the ..compression.. stroke of number 1 cylinder, not the exhaust stroke. Then see if the distributor rotor is at the right position.
Lastly, overfull a quart of oil will not keep an engine from starting. A gallon over would not keep it from starting. It would possibly leak oil all over when it did start.
B. If A was not the problem you need to establish if your timing is right and if the wires are on the distributor correctly. That means you have to get the engine on Top Dead Center of the ..compression.. stroke of number 1 cylinder, not the exhaust stroke. Then see if the distributor rotor is at the right position.
Lastly, overfull a quart of oil will not keep an engine from starting. A gallon over would not keep it from starting. It would possibly leak oil all over when it did start.
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