1971 Ford 2000 3 cyl gas tractor suddenly has ignition p

Could a bad ignition coil be my problem. I have replaced the neutral safety switch, ignition switch, both battery cables, the cable from solenoid to the starter and had the battery checked and it was good. I can't find any loose wire connections or breaks in the wiring. It cranked fine and then all of a sudden the ignition wouldn't do anything. Several times in the past I had to wiggle the gears for the ignition to work. That was why I replaced the neutral safety switch first. I have someone coming that can test the wiring but I don't know when as I have been waiting several weeks.

Check for power to the coil with key on and in start position. Start there.

another very common problem with the 2/3000 series is ignition switch failure.

Thanks.

No the coil will not cause the tractor starter not to engage and turn the engine, the coil only generates spark for the spark plugs. This is only deducted by from you saying ..it cranked fine and then all of a sudden the ignition does nothing.. So by saying ignition are you talking about the ..ignition switch..? Not a real Ford expert here but I think most Fords have a solenoid as you mentioned, it is possible that the solenoid is bad and not sending power to the starter. This normally will give you a click from the solenoid. Your starter may also be bad, but again normally the solenoid will click when the key is turned to the start position. Also, it may be a clutch safety switch as well which may be keeping the power from getting to the solenoid. A test light would be helpful to see if the small terminal on the solenoid when the key is turned to the start position.

By doing nothing I meant the ignition switch clicks(it may be the solenoid since I don't hear that well anymore). I have been looking for a clutch safety switch on my 1971 Ford 2000. Do you know where it is located?

Never mind. I think the neutral safety switch and the clutch safety switch are one and the same. I already replaced it.

It is likely just the way I am reading this, but please clarify how you are using "crank".

Does the starter not turn (crank) the engine over when you try to start it?

Or the starter turns the engine over and are you saying the engine does not crank (crank in this case meaning start and run)?

It has been posted before the coil does not prevent the starter from working and the neutral switch does not prevent the ignition circuit from working.

ALL it does is click. Fire is not getting to the starter. I put a new solenoid on and it didn't help. I have had a problem with mice under the firewall. I am wondering if I have a bad wire(mice) between the solenoid and ignition switch. I have fire coming in to the solenoid from the battery but no fire coming out of the solenoid to the starter. Could it be that a break in the wire between the solenoid and ignition switch is causing the ignition switch to fail? What I can see of the wire looks ok, but I can't get to all of it to inspect it.

(quoted from post at 19:11:08 07/04/21) ALL it does is click. Fire is not getting to the starter. I put a new solenoid on and it didn't help. I have had a problem with mice under the firewall. I am wondering if I have a bad wire(mice) between the solenoid and ignition switch. I have fire coming in to the solenoid from the battery but no fire coming out of the solenoid to the starter. Could it be that a break in the wire between the solenoid and ignition switch is causing the ignition switch to fail? What I can see of the wire looks ok, but I can't get to all of it to inspect it.

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Yes it could be a bad wire, but if the solenoid is clicking it is getting some power, but maybe not enough to operate it. Make sure the transmission is in neutral. Turn the key on. Use a jumper wire to jump from the battery terminal of the solenoid to the small start terminal of the solenoid. If the starter cranks the engine and it starts the problem is in the circuit that energizes the solenoid. If it still just clicks your solenoid may have a bad ground. How clean is the battery ground cable connection to the tractor? It is possible there is an issue in the starter.

Looking back at your posts, one reads like you jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver to get it back under your shed after it wouldn't crank originally. Did you do that? If so it points even more towards a problem in the start circuit wiring or switches.

I will try that tomorrow. I will need to get a jumper wire. All 3 cables are new and clean. The starter is fairly old but will a bad starter go out all of a sudden? Also, I am not getting any fire on the starter side of the solenoid.

By small starter wire are you referring to one of the two wires coming in on the back of the solenoid(one is to the ignition switch) or the cable going to the starter?

I forgot. Yes my buddy did jump it off with two screwdrivers to get it back under the shed.

That was one of the things I replaced.

A common 4 post Ford solenoid has two large terminals, one for the battery cable (usually the large terminal nearest the small start terminal) and the other for the cable to the starter. It also has two small terminals. One should have an "S" near it, the wire from the start switch goes on that terminal. If used the other terminal is used for a wire to the coil, bypassing the resistor, to supply full voltage to the coil during starting. Make sure the wires are on the right terminals.

If your friend used two screwdrivers to start it, it sounds like he jumped between the two large terminals, bypassing the solenoid. Using a jumper wire between the battery terminal and the "S" terminal will tell you if both, the solenoid and starter, are working. You can use most any wire you have around for a jumper, or a screwdriver or two.

Thanks Jim. Very well explained. I feel strongly we may have the problem detected. The hard part will be to find the defect in the wire since it is in a hard to get to place.

Thanks again Jim. The jumper wire from the battery connection on the solenoid to the S connection (3rd connection from the left looking at the mounted solenoid) on the solenoid(starter) worked and I was able to do some much need mowing until I can solve the wiring problem. Am I correct in the 2nd connection from the left(small connection next to large battery connection controls the ignition circuit(which appears to be my problem)? If so, I can start tracing that wire. One of 3 things likely happened to a hidden wire(mice, touched a hot place and burned, or a bad connection somewhere).

You turned the key/ignition switch on, used the jumper wire to engage the starter and crank the engine, then removed the jumper, correct? If it stayed running after you jumped the solenoid to start it (without a jumper wire feeding power to the coil) it would seem your ignition switch and the wire to the coil from it are ok. If that is the case your problem is somewhere in the starter circuit. The other small terminal on the solenoid should be for a resistor bypass, it does not control your ignition, it will run without that bypass hooked up as long as the power wire from the ignition switch goes to the coil. It only supplies power to the coil (on the same coil terminal as the wire from the ignition switch) when the solenoid is energized to power the starter. If you check it without a wire hooked to it, a test light should only light on that solenoid terminal while the solenoid is engaged (engine cranking). When the engine is running the ignition coil is supplied by another wire controlled by the ignition switch. When you turn the key on does the terminal on the coil that has the wire from the ignition switch (not the terminal with the wire going to the distributor) have steady power?

So with the test light(ignition on) I should first check the 2nd(ignition circuit) from the left(i.e. the small one next to the large battery feed on the solenoid). Then I should do the same moving the test light up that ignition circuit wire until it doesn't light up.

(quoted from post at 22:22:44 07/05/21) So with the test light(ignition on) I should first check the 2nd(ignition circuit) from the left(i.e. the small one next to the large battery feed on the solenoid). Then I should do the same moving the test light up that ignition circuit wire until it doesn't light up.

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I don't have a wiring diagram for your tractor but, there should be two wires on the terminal on the ignition switch side of the coil (not the one going to the distributor which should have only one wire). One wire from the ignition switch and one from the ignition terminal of the solenoid.

First and foremost be certain the tractor is in neutral before starting this checkout.

1. Unhook the wire from the solenoid ignition (resistor bypass) terminal so you don't see a back feed from the ignition wire on the coil.
2. With the key on test for power at the coil terminal the wire from the switch is connected to. It should have power from the ignition switch that turns on and off when you turn the ignition switch.
3. Check the terminal on the solenoid where you unhooked the wire. It should not have power when the ignition switch is in the run position.
4. Engage the starter while holding the test light on the ignition terminal of the solenoid. It should have power only when the solenoid is engaged (while the engine is cranking).
5. If the starter doesn't engage in step 4, the problem is in the start circuit, not ignition. Test for power on the "S" terminal while trying to start it with the key.

The start circuit and the ignition circuits are two different circuits coming out of the ignition switch. Either one can work without the other. The fact that you were able to start, and run, it using a jumper wire (and your friend made it crank and start with two screwdrivers) to energize the solenoid to make the starter crank; indicates to me your problem is in the start circuit wiring, not the ignition wiring. The engine would not run if the ignition circuit was not working. Some possible problems could be a bad switch, bad wire (broken, high internal resistance from corrosion, etc.), loose connection, or neutral switch not adjusted correctly.

Thanks Jim. I will give it a test today. It may be afternoon as I have a lot going on today.

With ignition switch on and both gears in neutral, I am getting no fire out of the S node on the solenoid. I am by myself. Do I have to depress the clutch while testing? I agree that the problem is in the starter circuit. I traced the wiring from the S node on the solenoid. The wiring is entirely wrapped with electrical tape and appears to be ok(unless it is brittle and cracked inside the tape due to age). Wire goes from S node on solenoid and splits up the line with the right line going to the alternator. The other line continues up and splits again with the left line going to the voltage regulator. The other line continues up and splits again with the left line going to the instrument panel behind the steering wheel and the right line going to the neutral safety switch under the transmission cover. Again, there are no visible defects in the line. I guess it all starts with no fire coming out of the S node on the solenoid when cranking.

I forgot to add that I got fire on all points on the ignition coil also.

(quoted from post at 12:50:23 07/06/21) With ignition switch on and both gears in neutral, I am getting no fire out of the S node on the solenoid. I am by myself. Do I have to depress the clutch while testing? I agree that the problem is in the starter circuit. I traced the wiring from the S node on the solenoid. The wiring is entirely wrapped with electrical tape and appears to be ok(unless it is brittle and cracked inside the tape due to age). Wire goes from S node on solenoid and splits up the line with the right line going to the alternator. The other line continues up and splits again with the left line going to the voltage regulator. The other line continues up and splits again with the left line going to the instrument panel behind the steering wheel and the right line going to the neutral safety switch under the transmission cover. Again, there are no visible defects in the line. I guess it all starts with no fire coming out of the S node on the solenoid when cranking.

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The solenoid S terminal does not supply power to anything. Your ignition switch (or starter button, which ever you have) supplies the power; the S terminal of the solenoid receives that power to make the solenoid contacts close to turn the starter. There are several wires inside that taped up harness and they are not all interconnected, they come from, and go, to different places for different functions. The tape just holds them together as a "harness". One wire should go from the start terminal of the ignition switch to one terminal on the neutral switch. Then a wire goes from the other terminal of the neutral switch to the S terminal of the solenoid.

The start wire has nothing to do with the alternator, regulator, or instrument panel, it just happens to run in the same harness. You should only have power on the solenoid S terminal when the key is in the start position or the starter button is pushed. If it had power all the time the key is on the starter would blow up in short order with the engine running. To my knowledge you tractor does not have a clutch safety switch, just the transmission neutral switch, so no, you do not need to push the clutch for the starter to work.

Jim, I solved the problem. It was the old neutral safety switch which was my original thought. The extended problem was the new neutral safety switch. It (the threaded part with the spring loaded ball underneath) is too short and not flipping the switch when the tractor was in neutral. We bypassed the solenoid and ran a wire from the S node wire on the solenoid to the battery and commenced to test the starter switch line at various points running from the end of the S node wire. It tested good until we got to the 2 wires going to the neutral safety switch. Only one of the wires tested positive. We cut both wires and hooked them together and it cranked. Of course, we are bypassing the neutral safety switch and that is dangerous until we can get the correct neutral safety switch. The moral of the story is you have to watch the parts you get. They don't always fit or work.

(quoted from post at 17:45:05 07/06/21) Jim, I solved the problem. It was the old neutral safety switch which was my original thought. The extended problem was the new neutral safety switch. It (the threaded part with the spring loaded ball underneath) is too short and not flipping the switch when the tractor was in neutral. We bypassed the solenoid and ran a wire from the S node wire on the solenoid to the battery and commenced to test the starter switch line at various points running from the end of the S node wire. It tested good until we got to the 2 wires going to the neutral safety switch. Only one of the wires tested positive. We cut both wires and hooked them together and it cranked. Of course, we are bypassing the neutral safety switch and that is dangerous until we can get the correct neutral safety switch. The moral of the story is you have to watch the parts you get. They don't always fit or work.

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Glad you found it. I figured it was somewhere in the start circuit. The bad original neutral switch, then the wrong new one didn't fix it but at least it kept the problem in the same place. Yes, you always need to look the parts you get over closely these days.

I am going to try New Holland tomorrow and take the old one with me if they have it. Thanks again for all your help.

Got the parts from New Holland. Turns out the 1/8 thick after market gasket versus the paper thin one I got from New Holland might have been the primary culprit rather than the after market neutral control switch. The after market switch did have a thin washer on it versus none on the one I took off and the new one I got from New Holland. Both the thick gasket and washer raised the height of the switch and didn't allow it to make good contact in order to push up the spring loaded button on the bottom of the switch when the gears were in neutral.