(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Electronic Ignition on Super M

F

[email protected]

New User
I have a IH Super M. I want to put in a electronic Ignition. Parts says I need to identify a IH or Delco distributer. How do I determine which one I have. Do not see any part numbers on the casting or the distributer shaft. I have a distributer cap with a spring clip. Thanks for the help.
 
First off why. Point last for years and years. I have not change a set of points in any of my running tractor in years and they keep on going.

That said the horizontal distributor if I remember right is IH and the vertical one is Delco
 
I'm with you, Why?

I find it interesting people on YT are down on lack of computer chips and want to go back to the good old days.

That said, back in the 60's A guy gave me an electronic kit that used the points to turn a large power transistor on and off. Points lasted forever.

Don't remember who made the kit.
 
(quoted from post at 12:10:53 05/21/21) I have a IH Super M. I want to put in a electronic Ignition. Parts says I need to identify a IH or Delco distributer. How do I determine which one I have. Do not see any part numbers on the casting or the distributer shaft. I have a distributer cap with a spring clip. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

hJuMYN5.jpg


This is the IH distributor, the distributor is
"horizontal".

A Delco distributor (sold as an aftermarket accessory) would be "vertical".
 
(quoted from post at 12:39:17 05/21/21) I'm with you, Why?

I find it interesting people on YT are down on lack of computer chips and want to go back to the good old days.

That said, back in the 60's A guy gave me an electronic kit that used the points to turn a large power transistor on and off. Points lasted forever.

Don't remember who made the kit.
Click to expand...

Sadly, "in the field" a commonly-sold aftermarket electronic replacement for breaker points is NOT as robust and dependable over the long run as automotive factory EI systems have been for MANY years (with the exception of the older Ford units followed by the "famous' Ford "TFI" ignition failures).

https://www.autosafety.org/ford-tfi-module-national-class-settlement/

"A dozen years of failures!"
 
Only thing I have ever changed to electronic ignition was an old tiller I had. It smoked so bad tat if you walked away from it you might not see it till it ran out of gas. I went to the electronic because it would run just fine till you tried to engage the belt and the nit would die due to the bushing in the case being so bad engaging the belt would cause the point gap to change
 
Sorry I have no pictures or part numbers to help you identify your distributor, try posting on the IHC forum or maybe
Pertronix can help you. That being said IFFFFFFF and as long as an elec ignition is working it can deliver more spark energy
and many report improved starting and idling HOWEVER if they quit you're dead in the water versus filing a set of points to
get back to the barn. Unfortunately the old distributor tractor conversions are not near the quality as modern elec ignition
systems.

But hey EI has advantages and its YOUR tractor YOUR choice none of ours so I would do what I wanted if it were me .. NOT
anyone here

John T
 
Should have number in picture on the IH distributor. Some aftermarket hydraulic pump kits used the IH one vertical but generally
horizontal.
cvphoto89185.jpg
 
I think the electronic ignition modules on air cooled engine are the greatest thing since pop top cans.
 
I wonder how long will the old cap and rotor last if you boosts the spark voltage?

Increase the voltage and insulation will break down. I think this may be why today's high voltage cars don't have distributors.
 
Looking at the distributor cap.

The Delco, where the clips hook, the protrusions run all the way down the sides of the cap.

The IH, the base of the cap is round with small indentions near the top for the hooks.

I for one will defend the Pertronix conversion kits.

Have not had any negative experiences with them. I hear they have excellent, personal customer
service, though I have never had the occasion to call.

Advantages of the conversion kit, it will work with a less than perfect distributor where there is
some wear in the shaft bearings. Any wear and the points will not stay set. Points that will not
stay set are doomed to a shortened life from arcing and burning.

The manufacturers of points, condensers, caps, etc. have all gone overseas. Poor quality, poor
workmanship, some fail to work out of the box. None I have found will last like the old ones did.

What electronic conversion will not overcome is the use of the wrong coil/coil resistor
combination. Use the wrong coil it will have weak spark, or burn out the module from too much
amperage.

It will also not work properly with a distributor with a frozen centrifugal advance, bad wires,
cap, rotor, plugs, or oil fouling plugs. It will not overcome any other engine problems, low
compression, bad fuel delivery, or anything else that contributes to poor performance. All it is is a replacement for points. The timing will need to be checked after the kit is installed.

The manufacturers of the kits often try to push high performance coils, special wires, or other add on's. These are not necessary! A coil will only build as much voltage as it needs to discharge.

A set of spiral core resistor wires is the best match.
 
Thats true, if you have a HV capable coil and widen the plug gap the voltages can exceed what an old system can handle especially if the wires or cap etc are old and cracked or worn.....Theres no need for distributors in modern cars each coil pack gets a pulse from the computer to fire that plug at the right time, distributors are old technology ...

Keep Happy

John T
 
I installed a Pentronix kit in a JD 70 in 2000. It's now 2021, the tractor runs every week, and the kit is still in there.
 
The weakest link on my 2007 GMC is the rotor and cap.

High voltage is
cvphoto89191.jpg

Also responsible for insulation break down on the coil.

So what will electronic ignition accomplish on old tractor?
 
I put EI in a Ford 3000 and can vouch that
it worked perfectly for a dozen years and
the distributor cap never had to come off
in that time.
As for being stuck in the field if ei fails
that is not the case.
I carried a set of points and condenser in
a zip lock bag stashed behind the dash for
a long time - just in case.
It takes as long to pull the ei out and
stick the points in as it does to change
those parts.
Another advantage to EI is it is not very
particular about the air gap between the
magnet and the the sensor. So you can have
substantial wear in your distributor
bushings and it will work fine where points
will not.
 
(quoted from post at 15:47:50 05/21/21)
(quoted from post at 12:39:17 05/21/21) I'm with you, Why?

I find it interesting people on YT are down on lack of computer chips and want to go back to the good old days.

That said, back in the 60's A guy gave me an electronic kit that used the points to turn a large power transistor on and off. Points lasted forever.

Don't remember who made the kit.
Click to expand...

Sadly, "in the field" a commonly-sold aftermarket electronic replacement for breaker points is NOT as robust and dependable over the long run as automotive factory EI systems have been for MANY years (with the exception of the older Ford units followed by the "famous' Ford "TFI" ignition failures).

https://www.autosafety.org/ford-tfi-module-national-class-settlement/

"A dozen years of failures!"
Click to expand...
FI was a piece of excrement & I did receive some compensation from Ford. However, GM has had excellent performance & life with its INSIDE the distributor HEI units, but then the technology of implementation was NOT TFI.
 
(quoted from post at 16:43:32 05/21/21) I wonder how long will the old cap and rotor last if you boosts the spark voltage?

Increase the voltage and insulation will break down. I think this may be why today's high voltage cars don't have distributors.
Click to expand...
ontrary to advertising hype, the voltage, whether points or EI, will only go as high as is necessary to establish the arc at the plug & if gap/plug condition/compression/etc remain the same as before switch to EI, the voltage will remain the same. If you have the time & equipment to measure it, it isn't difficult to observe.
 
I agree I watched the voltage on a Sun engine analyzer. The voltage will only get as high as needed to fire the plug. BUT what happens to all that energy created by the coil? It gets used by increasing the fire time of the plug. It showed right on the scope. A high spike to get the arc started then a fairly flat firing line. I took a plug wire off and would have it touch the plug and then slowly move it away so it was having to jump to the plug. As it gap widened the voltage would climb and the firing line would get shorter. Close the gap and voltage goes down and firing gets longer.
 
(quoted from post at 19:54:59 05/21/21) I agree I watched the voltage on a Sun engine analyzer. The voltage will only get as high as needed to fire the plug. BUT what happens to all that energy created by the coil? It gets used by increasing the fire time of the plug. It showed right on the scope. A high spike to get the arc started then a fairly flat firing line. I took a plug wire off and would have it touch the plug and then slowly move it away so it was having to jump to the plug. As it gap widened the voltage would climb and the firing line would get shorter. Close the gap and voltage goes down and firing gets longer.
Click to expand...
hat is the physics of it!
 
Good technical question George So what will electronic ignition accomplish on old tractor?

Here's the engineering answer: I cant cover in a few sentences what it may take a library, education and experience to fully convey especially to a non sparky but I do try my best

1) Iffffffffffffffffffffffffff its working ???? (NOTE IF) its possible to achieve higher ENERGY discharge (Volts x Amps
x Time) across the plug gap when it fires

2) Often improved starting and idling

3) Instead of bouncing ringing burning mechanical contact points a solid state device switches coil current on and off

4) An elec switch yields a fast more positive (On or Off period) coil current switch then bouncing ringing mechanical points.


NOW as a FYI to those non sparkies who dont realize or understand the physics or electronics listen

1) The voltage at which the plug fires is a function of SPARK GAP DISTANCE and the medium (fuel and compression) in which it fires.

2) Just because an elec coil current switch replaces bouncing ringing contact points DOES NOTTTTTTTTT NECESSARILY RAISE THE VOLTAGE REQUIRED TO ARC JUMP CURRENT ACROSS THE PLUG GAP........ Coil voltage ONLY rises high enough to fire the plug no more REGARDLESS if points or an elec switch is used

3) Just because one uses a so called HIGH VOLTAGE coil does NOT increase the voltage at which the plug fires, if all else is the same it fires at the same voltage an old stock coil fires, points or elec switch

IE if all else is the same regardless if an elec switch or points switch coil current on and off THE PLUG FIRES AT THE SAME NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT HIGHER VOLTAGE

HOWEVER if the plug gap is increased (elec or points) voltage increases

THE PROBLEM IS if plug gap is increased and voltages increase (as often done when using an elec switch and HV coil) OLD CAPS OR ROTORS OR PLUG WIRES CAN BREAK DOWN and people blame it on an elec switch. Its a High Voltage problem NOT if poinst or an elec switch is used for coil current

An old tractor elec conversion IS NO WHERE NEAR THE QUALITY of an auto ignition and they can fail miserably

NOW LISTEN Im NOT pushing or arguing for points or elec switch TAKE YOUR CHOICE. An elec switch is engineering superior to points and why the auto industry switched over HOWEVER again a tractor conversion is not the same quality and can go bad

DISCLAIMER George and others, its impossible to explain all this to a non technical person but shoot me an e mail and I will try more.

Use what you like is my advice you get NO argument from me over YOUR choice Im only trying to explain it to yall PLEASE USE POINTS IF YOU LIKE OR AN ELEC SWITCH IF YOU LIKE Im not arguing with you ONLY answering Georges technical question..

Dont worry be happy lol

John T Retired Electrical Engineer
 
AMEN JM I AGREE 100% You are correct (but you know that anyway this may help others who arent sparkies)

heres a copy of my answer to George below saying basically the same

Good technical question George So what will electronic ignition accomplish on old tractor?
Here's the engineering answer: I cant cover in a few sentences what it may take a library, education and experience to fully
convey especially to a non sparky but I do try my best

1) Iffffffffffffffffffffffffff its working ???? (NOTE IF) its possible to achieve higher ENERGY discharge (Volts x Amps x
Time) across the plug gap when it fires

2) Often improved starting and idling

3) Instead of bouncing ringing burning mechanical contact points a solid state device switches coil current on and off

4) An elec switch yields a fast more positive (On or Off period) coil current switch then bouncing ringing mechanical
points.

NOW as a FYI to those non sparkies who dont realize or understand the physics or electronics listen

1) The voltage at which the plug fires is a function of SPARK GAP DISTANCE and the medium (fuel and compression) in which it
fires.

2) Just because an elec coil current switch replaces bouncing ringing contact points DOES NOTTTTTTTTT NECESSARILY RAISE THE
VOLTAGE REQUIRED TO ARC JUMP CURRENT ACROSS THE PLUG GAP........ Coil voltage ONLY rises high enough to fire the plug no
more REGARDLESS if points or an elec switch is used 3) Just because one uses a so called HIGH VOLTAGE coil does NOT increase
the voltage at which the plug fires, if all else is the same it fires at the same voltage an old stock coil fires, points or
elec switch

IE if all else is the same regardless if an elec switch or points switch coil current on and off THE PLUG FIRES AT THE SAME
NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT HIGHER VOLTAGE

HOWEVER if the plug gap is increased (elec or points) voltage increases

THE PROBLEM IS if plug gap is increased and voltages increase (as often done when using an elec switch and HV coil) OLD CAPS
OR ROTORS OR PLUG WIRES CAN BREAK DOWN and people blame it on an elec switch. Its a High Voltage problem NOT if poinst or an
elec switch is used for coil current

An old tractor elec conversion IS NO WHERE NEAR THE QUALITY of an auto ignition and they can fail miserably

NOW LISTEN Im NOT pushing or arguing for points or elec switch TAKE YOUR CHOICE. An elec switch is engineering superior to
points and why the auto industry switched over HOWEVER again a tractor conversion is not the same quality and can go bad

DISCLAIMER George and others, its impossible to explain all this to a non technical person but shoot me an e mail and I will
try more.

Use what you like is my advice you get NO argument from me over YOUR choice Im only trying to explain it to yall PLEASE USE
POINTS IF YOU LIKE OR AN ELEC SWITCH IF YOU LIKE Im not arguing with you ONLY answering Georges technical question..

Dont worry be happy lol

John T Retired Electrical Engineer
 
(quoted from post at 07:49:00 05/22/21) AMEN JM I AGREE 100% You are correct (but you know that anyway this may help others who arent sparkies)

heres a copy of my answer to George below saying basically the same

Good technical question George So what will electronic ignition accomplish on old tractor?
Here's the engineering answer: I cant cover in a few sentences what it may take a library, education and experience to fully
convey especially to a non sparky but I do try my best

1) Iffffffffffffffffffffffffff its working ???? (NOTE IF) its possible to achieve higher ENERGY discharge (Volts x Amps x
Time) across the plug gap when it fires

2) Often improved starting and idling

3) Instead of bouncing ringing burning mechanical contact points a solid state device switches coil current on and off

4) An elec switch yields a fast more positive (On or Off period) coil current switch then bouncing ringing mechanical
points.

NOW as a FYI to those non sparkies who dont realize or understand the physics or electronics listen

1) The voltage at which the plug fires is a function of SPARK GAP DISTANCE and the medium (fuel and compression) in which it
fires.

2) Just because an elec coil current switch replaces bouncing ringing contact points DOES NOTTTTTTTTT NECESSARILY RAISE THE
VOLTAGE REQUIRED TO ARC JUMP CURRENT ACROSS THE PLUG GAP........ Coil voltage ONLY rises high enough to fire the plug no
more REGARDLESS if points or an elec switch is used 3) Just because one uses a so called HIGH VOLTAGE coil does NOT increase
the voltage at which the plug fires, if all else is the same it fires at the same voltage an old stock coil fires, points or
elec switch

IE if all else is the same regardless if an elec switch or points switch coil current on and off THE PLUG FIRES AT THE SAME
NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT HIGHER VOLTAGE

HOWEVER if the plug gap is increased (elec or points) voltage increases

THE PROBLEM IS if plug gap is increased and voltages increase (as often done when using an elec switch and HV coil) OLD CAPS
OR ROTORS OR PLUG WIRES CAN BREAK DOWN and people blame it on an elec switch. Its a High Voltage problem NOT if poinst or an
elec switch is used for coil current

An old tractor elec conversion IS NO WHERE NEAR THE QUALITY of an auto ignition and they can fail miserably

NOW LISTEN Im NOT pushing or arguing for points or elec switch TAKE YOUR CHOICE. An elec switch is engineering superior to
points and why the auto industry switched over HOWEVER again a tractor conversion is not the same quality and can go bad

DISCLAIMER George and others, its impossible to explain all this to a non technical person but shoot me an e mail and I will
try more.

Use what you like is my advice you get NO argument from me over YOUR choice Im only trying to explain it to yall PLEASE USE
POINTS IF YOU LIKE OR AN ELEC SWITCH IF YOU LIKE Im not arguing with you ONLY answering Georges technical question..

Dont worry be happy lol

John T Retired Electrical Engineer
Click to expand...

Well said John T
If I may add my 2 cents worth.

When converting to a Pertronix system most applications require the use of carbon core wires so when doing a conversion most will install;

-The Pertronix kit
-New plug wires
-Cap and rotor
-Spark plugs

End result is the engine now runs great.
Is it better than points?
Like yourself I have seen both systems work very well.

For a lot of people they will rave about how great the engine runs after the conversion.

So was it the Pertronix that made the difference or was it the long overdue tune-up that was done at the same time????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

H
Electronic ignition ??
Replies
7
Views
503
JMOR
J
C
Electronic ignition again resolved
Replies
5
Views
821
JMOR
J
W
Wiring for Super M With electronic ignition
Replies
10
Views
349
Janicholson
Janicholson
M
Electronic ignition questions.
Replies
12
Views
525
buickanddeere
B
H
IH 674 gas - convert to electronic ignition? Worth it?
2
Replies
26
Views
649
wore out
wore out
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top