(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

detroit diesel?

S

swindave

Member
any one have, had or used any equipment or tractor with a detroit diesel?
i heard stories, good and bad about them,
neighbor had a big oliver 1950? with one, it was noisey, but he said it was a real power house!
i think they sold them in trucks, tractors, and what else?
what your story or experience with a detroit?
 
The Detroit diesel engine was used in about anything that needsd an engine. They started in production before the start of world war 2! They were made in one cylinder to 16 cylinders
 
Yup, I had an Oliver 1950 with front wheel assist.
Them Detroit's turned good fuel into noise. They were also the most gutless thing you could imagine. The 4-53 in the Oliver was rated for 110HP coming out of 212 cubic inch block. The Real Green and the Reds were using over 400 cubes to make the same power. The difference is that they would lug and power there way through the tuff spot where the Detroit would fall flat on its face.
I hated using the front wheel assist as that just meant there was another wheel that required power which made that Detroit fall faster on its face.
 
Prior to the series 60 : Detroit diesel engines were a 2 stroke design. No power unless wide open. Good ones would run forever. Bad ones were a money pit
 
My dad had an earthmoving business and was a big Detroit fan. He liked that they were simple, reliable and cheap to fix. Here's what we had:

Two 4-71 powered Austin-Western graders, one of which he converted to a terracing machine. Both originally had IH diesels.

An 8V-71 powered LeTourneau C-Pull scraper. VERY loud.

An 8V-71 powered IH semi tractor. In the winter, it took about half a can of starting fluid to get it going. It had an air starter that gave you about three seconds of cranking. We eventually mounted a gasoline-powered air compressor on the truck so we could get the thing started out in the boonies.

A Euclid (Terex) TTS-14 tandem scraper, powered by three 4-71 Detroits via 5-speed Allison transmissions. This monstrosity was about 70 feet long and was basically a TS-14 twin-engine scraper with an extra scraper bowl and engine added on. The front engine had a mechanical throttle, while the back two engines were controlled by air throttles; the back engine throttles had only two positions: on and off.
 
Twenty two years with a company that ran them in their intermodal cranes.
cvphoto81994.jpg


Thats a 6-71 Detroit up in there, it runs nothing but hydraulic pumps. Screaming at 2550 rpm, it was interesting what could go wrong with them.

Beagle
 
We still work on several Detroits in stationary generator and fire pump applications. That is where they really shine on industrial applications that call for a constant RPM. I have rebuilt a few here and there. My personal favorites are the big 149 series, have several out there in twelve and sixteen cylinder versions. There are supposedly some 20 cylinder 149 series out there as well, but I have not personally seen one.

I replaced head gaskets and rebuilt the blowers on a 24 cylinder 71 series several years ago, also on a generator.

Parts are getting a little harder to come by now, but talk about a design that has stood the test of time. Also check out the EMD engines used in locomotive and marine applications, a big brother to the Detroit. EMD is still being made today and just as viable as ever, no finer engine in a marine tug, and I am a high horsepower Cummins guy.
 
Ive got a 71 Chevy C90 truck with a 6-71. Still give it straight 40W.
It gets the job done. However, theres one thing Ive never understood. Its the guys that take a late-model pickup truck and drop a noisy two-stroke Detroit in them. Their money, I guess.
 
We used to have several of the 8V71's in fire apparatus and loved them, loud, but would run all day and night. Smoked like the dickens, summertime people didnt like us when they were stuck in traffic due to the large amount of black smoke from side exhaust
 
Their first attempt at 4 stroke, 8.2 called Fuel Pincher, put in lots equiptment and trucks. Kinda power less. I have couple of them in Ford trucks.
 
All our liberty boats had the 671. Nothing beats the sound of one. My first class told me.If a 671 is not leaking oil. Something is wrong with it.
 
The 1950 Oliver we had when I was a teenager sure wasn't gutless. While it is true they wouldn't lug at low rpm, when you got it screaming it would walk away with a 6-16 plow and turn a lot of dirt black in a day. Plus with 6 gears and the hydra power you had 12 forward speeds to choose from and the best torque of that era. All it knew was hard work and it did a lot of it. And told you about it. Loudly. :)
 
I never knew what was in those whale boats as we called them on the JFK. Only thing I had to do with them was mess with the radios and ride them to shore
 
The classical Detroit diesel engines were the most successful HD diesel engine series of all time.

They were two-stroke engines and made much more HP than any other contemporary design that could be packaged in the same space, excepting a few specialty designs, e.g., the complex, expensive, and difficult to service Fairbanks Morse opposed piston, Napier deltoid, etc., themselves also two-stroke designs.

Of modular design, they were produced in 1, 2, 3, 4, I6, V6, V8, V12, and V16 packages, most (all?) having either CW or CCW rotation options. Various models were offered in 53, 71, 149 and/or 192 CI per cylinder versions.

They were two-stroke engines and made much more HP than any other contemporary design that could be packaged in the same space.

They were designed to produce HP, which they did in spades. They were not designed to produce torque at low RPM and were marketed accordingly.

Detroit Diesel engines were used successfully in just about any imaginable industrial diesel engine application until rendered environmentally obsolete by the federales.

With reasonable maintenance, they would run just about forever.

Dean
 
EMD engines are still being manufactured for railroad locomotives for the export market.

Dean
 
The Higgins boats were powered by Gray Marine/GMC 671s.

In an opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, one can hear the unmistakable roar of a 671 as the Higgins boat carries the terrified soldiers to Omaha Beach.

I was surprised and impressed by the authenticity of the engine sound in the scene.

Dean
 
Gear down one instead of overloading the engine.
I never had any problems with pushing power with a 6-71 Detroit in a Terex 82-30 dozer.
 
The boats he is talking abut where used on the Air craft carrier to shuttle sailors to shore when they went on liberty. I rode a good many of them when we where in Spain and Italy and Egypt. They where the only way to get to shore since a carrier had to anchor out in the harbor
 
The navy used a LOT of them in various applications in WWII. Many in landing craft of many different sizes. Mostly 6-71s but one, two, or three or quad units too sometimes two quads to a shaft and two shaft. Also many larger two cycle engines of the same basic design. On the ship I was on (300' tanker) main propulsion was 4 278As. V-16s, and the ships service generators were two 268As, straight 8s. All are interesting engines and there is a lot of interesting information if you search on them.
 
When I was a kid and that was 55 years ago, everything had Detroits in them if the truck or machine owner wanted diesel. Oh, yeah, Cummins and some old manufacturers were still in the mix. Seems they were substantial enough in the 1950's and 1960's that most manufacturers used them. When I was about 12 my uncle hired in a Bucyrus-Erie drag line with a Detroit engine to dredge the pond. The operator was spectacular and could drop a bucket load in the small dump trucks with ease. He was probably running the machine at about 1,800 rpm's. I would sit on the bank of the pond and listen to it all day! Fun stuff, - fond memories.
 
You may find this link interesting if you have not found it, Tom.

My Father was one of the US Navy Techs as shown at the bottom. As a Navy Tech, he was a civilian (employed by GMC) but wearing a US Navy Tech uniform. He told me that he received many salutes from Navy personnel who did not recognize his uniform and were not taking any chances.

He was assigned to the tender Oglala (sunk from fright at Pearl Harbor but refloated) in the South Pacific. After the War, he worked as a field engineer for GM Truck and Coach until retiring in 1969 after 30 years.

He knew more about Detroits than anyone I have ever known.

Dean
Detroit Diesel WWII
 
Hay maker2, we had one just like yours. Absolutely GUTLESS! They did hold up good, some
stayed on the farms for a long time. There was a young farmer (in his 60's now) in town
that could do a overhaul on the 1900 & 1950s blindfolded. His dad ran them for 30+ yrs.
in the rice fields.
 
My company has two of these lifts with 4-53 Detroits in them and they get used all the time. Still quite a few of those lifts in use around the country too.


cvphoto81997.jpg


cvphoto81998.jpg
 
back in the 1980's and 90's on the oil rigs, had 671's on the mud pumps. had 2 side by side with a power divider. i remember one time one engine was in bad shape and would keep getting hot and seize up. had to run with just the one pump but short of power. crazy driller would run down there and get it fired up once cooled off and be good for a while. smoking like crazy. the mechanic came out and replaced the sleeves and pistons right on site and after a day we were back in business. we had 8v92 for a floor motor. they were also ok on the generators ,as they ran at a constant speed. later on it was more cat engines.
 
(quoted from post at 22:26:59 03/18/21) The 1950 Oliver we had when I was a teenager sure wasn't gutless. While it is true they wouldn't lug at low rpm, when you got it screaming it would walk away with a 6-16 plow and turn a lot of dirt black in a day. Plus with 6 gears and the hydra power you had 12 forward speeds to choose from and the best torque of that era. All it knew was hard work and it did a lot of it. And told you about it. Loudly. :)
Click to expand...

I assure you that your 1950 would not be pulling a 6-16 on my farm. And I assure you that my JD4240 and My JD4320 will work the snot out of any Oliver 1950 with a 4-53 Detroit. All three of these tractors are in the same HP class but the John Deere torque and lug will easily dominate that 4-53 in an Oliver.
 
I still remember getting left in Rota Spain with a number of other guys off the JFK due to a storm coming in the it being to rough for the boats to come get us. The JFK headed for Norfolk VA. The next morning they took us to the air strip where we got on Helos and they flew us out to the JFK. That was the only time I ever flew in a helo
 
They have a very flat torque curve which means you need to keep it at RPM to make the required HP for the load. With a four stroke there's a torque peak and then a HP peak. Gear your machine to run at the HP peak and under heavy load as RPM drops you get into the area where you're making more torque, that's where the lugging power comes from. With the Detroit you downshift.

My Grandfather was a retired diesel mechanic and worked on Detroits in trucks and mining equipment throughout their prime days and into the time when the 60 series came out.

I have a couple of 3-71's I'm planning to repower an old track loader with. A good friend has a big Oliver with a 4-53.

Check out the Euclid TC-12; two 6-71s, one for each track!
 
Back in the day I worked around Link Belt equipment with screamin Detroits. Both track crane and hydro crane. I know they also had them in their excavators.
 
You have a 1950 rated at 105 horse stock. A 4320 with 115
horse stock and a 4240 with 110 horse stock. I sure would
hope those green and yellow heaps would out work it.
 
I drove a truck with a 671 in it -- slam Your hand in the door first then get in and drive it -- all it knew was flat to the floor-- I have a 3-53 for sale if anyone is interested --- Roy
 
Lots of hours running Screaming Jimmies! if you do not look at the noise,, and the fact you add oil to them every day with the built in slobber they have they are a dependable engine, they were always far cheaper to over haul compared to other engines,, but they needed repairs sooner also,, we I used to work we had some in trucks,, you needed to know how to shift for sure and keep them in their very short power band with a std transmission on them,, most of the hours I have one them was on heavy equipment, scrapers, loaders, packers, they worked very well with a torque convertor between them and the transmission as it allowed them to stay in their work zone a lot easier,, I Much preferred our CASE and CAT powered loaders to them,, also really liked CAT at that time in our semi fleet they changed to over the Detroits, we had Silver 92's I think we called them a couple V-6 in two binder end dumps with 8 speeds,, those I really did not care for and only had to drive them a couple times thankfully, one tire roller we had had a three banger in it with a shop made muffler oh I hated running that all day my ears rang for hours after. the crusher power plant had a V-16 Detroit,, I was there 20 years, the only repair that unit got was the rear main seal had to be replaced once,, when I left it had over 15K hours on it,, lot of guys like them at tractor pulls as they make a whole lot of noise and smoke,, me I would rather see pure stock ones pulling but hey to each their own
 
We have a late 70s cab over Petebilt with a silver 435 hp 8V92. That truck will fly off the line pulling 80,000 lbs and leave cat/Cummins powered trucks in the dust. You get to a hill and it will go backwards just as fast.

They are tough engines. And they will put out the horsepower of wrapped up. Dont forget some of the biggest tractors in the world used Detroits like Big Bud and Rite. Steigers used them the first 10 years of their existence. Neighbor of mine got started farming with an Oliver Super 99. He pulled a 20ft duck foot plow when everybody else was pulling 15-16ft with JD 830s, 4020s, Case 900s and other similar tractors.
 
When I started working at Lincoln Elec. in '73 they were going crazy building the 650s with 2-71 for the Alaska pipeline. Lincoln also built the Nelson stud welders in those days. They put their largest generator frame on a 6-71 power unit. Allis Chalmers used Detroits in the HD crawlers. FIL bought an HD-5 that sprayed oil droplets out the stack. The blower seals were shot so I got to rebuild it. Quite a project for a novice getting the impellers timed.
 
used them for all sorts of things in the navy. Used 371s on a floating drydock for back up cooling for the nuclear subs.
Used 671s on tugboats for generators and for the big firefighting water pump.
Buddy of mine took care of them on landing craft.
 
Had a 1976 Peterbilt COE with a 8V92 NA in it with a 13 speed transmission. Fun truck to drive. Also had a 1980
White Rd boss with a 6V92 and a 9 speed transmission. It was ok. Other trucks had Cats and Cummins.

Vito
 
agreed they will put out power for a short range,, like the 747 Big Bud, it has a allision automatic trans again with torque convertor, I laughed when you spoke of the truck out running others until you hit a hill been there for sure lol took me back to the trucking days,, those V-8 will run if you drive them like you stole them and shifted every 100 or so rpm lol
 
The liberty vessels we had on the Kitty Hawk in the 70's on WesPacs were locally owned vessels 20-25 foot long with V6 or V8 go devil straight shaft engines. Very loud. Straight headers mostly. Real fancy paint jobs. Like a competition amoung the locals. They ran like a scolded dog. Wingnut
 
A very very few of the series 2 Buds used Allisons but the 747 Bud and the Series 3 Buds used twin disc transmissions with torque converters. Those were part of the reason they went bankrupt.

I compare our Pete with our 1989 KW with a 425 hp Cat 3406B which is probably the king of torque. We pulled the same loads of hay and water with both trucks. Both trucks have 10 speeds but you will get up speed about 3 gears faster with the Pete. Fun truck to drive but I wouldnt want to make a career with it:)
 
Have a 1900A with the 4-53 and a Super-99 with the 3-71---Tee
cvphoto82033.jpg

Son had them in town for the parade and sponsored the peddle pull and the winners got their picture taken in front of the Olivers.
cvphoto82034.jpg

Bought this 2-150 with the intention of putting the 8-71 in it put have not got it done yet.
cvphoto82035.jpg

8-71
 
Other stuff, we had one on an asphalt paver and vibrator roller. I was rolling in reverse and oil was blowing out of the dipstick.The boss called the shop and told them to bring a fuel return line out and what machine they could rob one from till a new one came in. The next morning I checked all of the fluids and went to work,thirty minutes later that three cyl locked up. Someone thought building a return line from cooper was a good idea,it wasn t. THe fuel return lines are under the rocker cover,the cracked line filled the crankcase and thinned the oil, and it pulled a liner into.
 
I had a MH 55 that someone had modified and put in a 3-71 Detroit....quite a conversation piece.

Ben
 
I drove an '82 F700 Ford single axle tractor pulling a 45 ft trailer all over Iowa one summer with that 8.2L Fuel Pincher in it. It did stretch a gallon of fuel quite a ways, about 8 miles, Tractor only had one little 40 gallon fuel tank, just big enough to need fuel on both ends of my runs. Driving that truck was about like driving my '78 F-150 except the F-700 had air brakes.
There was some goofy thing with the injection system, it would start missing on one cylinder, then two, then three, four, and about that time it would disappear for several weeks and come back. It wasn't much fun driving it when it was missing.
Most discussions about Best and Worst diesel engines the 8.2L gets absolute worst diesel award, and some guys say their 40 year old 8.2L has never missed a beat!
That Ford got replaced with a little IH FleetStar with 478 cid gas V-8, pulled same loads same trailer, and got around 3 mpg, still gassing up both ends of my trips.
 
I have a 471 on my sawmill and I keep a 671 running on another sawmill. The 671 was bought new in 1948 and has never been into for any reason. Last week while tinkering with the 671 it ran away with us. When that happened I just about lost my nerve to be a mechanic.
 
Ha-Ha... I lived in a '79 Road Boss 2 for a couple years, Our company had 4-5 of them, all 903 Cummins powered, 6 spd Spicer trans, governed to 2500 rpm and 4.44 gears, would run 67 mph everywhere but as the miles rolled up the lack of maintenance caught up with them. A few more gears or another 30+ hp would have been nice. They supposedly made 320 hp which they probably did when I started and they were only several months old. We had several IH S2200's with Silver 6V-92's, 307 hp, 9 spd Road-Rangers, they would keep up with the Whites, and get about 1/2 mpg better fuel milage, but I added a quart of oil to my 903 every WEEK, my buddy with one of the S2200's added 2-3 quarts of oil EVERY DAY.
Lets talk NOISE and it's effects on fatique. In both trucks your right foot was less than a foot from the left exhaust manifold. After a couple hundred thousand miles the doghouses did not seal well. I'd get way more tired listening to a Detroit for 300+ miles than a Cummins, the 903's or the 290 in an IH S2200 I drove for a year. The IH had a 10-speed Road Ranger but it also had half a million miles on the clock, 55 mph was terminal velocity! WAY too slow when your getting paid by the trip.
I tried to steer clear of Detroit powered tractors. Just too much noise. In over 2 years I only drove a Detroit powered truck maybe 10 days. The only CATS we had were 3208's in S-1700's, 2 straight trucks and a couple single axle tractors used for local delivery.
I was ten years old when Dad bought me My Tractor a '49 Deere R diesel. I don't remember Dad ever running it. We still had a Super M-TA that would work circles around the R. I disked about 20 acres and plowed about 120 acres with the R. And I plowed the last 16 acres with the SM-TA after Dad sold the R. That R converted 2 gallons of diesel fuel an hour into about as much noise a human could stand.
 
Here is also a link to a spec sheet for the Series 149 Dean mentioned about two thirds through the thread ..on Classic.. That is 149 cid per cylinder. The first sheets are not real clear but the 4th page shows the 16 cylinder in a configuration to produce 1600hp, noisy I am sure but still impressive.
DD Series 149
 
They ran them in everything... Tractors generators trucks every aspect of heavy equipment... AC used em in dozers, galion used em in graders.. if its Idling and there isnt a puddle shut it down its out of oil...


We had a 67 KW with a 8v71 and 10spd.. empty was an every other gear shift.. Loaded you better know how to shift.. Slam you right hand in the door start it and drive.. every time you shift your hand will throb and keep you mad all day.. put your foot on the floor and drive it that way.... LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES
 
Yes it did. Learned some more Detroit secrets after looking online. When trouble shooting a Detroit step 1 is to put a set of vise grips on the rack lever. Step 2 put a set of vise grips on the rack lever. Step 3 put .........
 
I HAVE A 4-71 in a M R S tractor. Mississippi Road Supply. Four wheel drive four wheel steer....1964 I-80
 

Worked on river barges after high school hauling fuel, 1st boat I was on had 2 V16 EMD's, 6-71's one the generators, my bunk room was next to the engine room on the generator side, the fuel barges had 6-71's on the pumps to off load the gas and diesel we hauled, last boat I was one had 3 V12 EMD's with turbo's
First truck I drove over the road was a IH cab over with a 8V71 (318) and 13 spd, I later got a newer model IH cab over with a VT903 Cummins and 13 speed, at first I thought something was wrong with the Cummins because I didn't have to add oil to the engine every time I stopped for fuel.
Buddy of mine was a logger, he had 540 John Deere skidders and then got a Timber Jack with a 4-53 Detroit, ran both of them together and one couldn't out pull the other after you learned how to drive the Detroit
Our Fire Dept had a American LaFrance with a 6V92, pumping it was a pain because you couldn't hear the radio over the engine.
I wanted a Oliver 1950 just because it had a 4-53 Detroit, but I've gotten over that want now.
 

I made a good living with them. First one was in a 1966 GMC with a 238 - 6 and a 1969 Kenworth with first a 318 - V8, then a Double OO 92 - V8. The Double OO 92 was a horse.
 
Have two Caterpillar 4R D6 tractors that have been repowered with 6-71 Detroits. Nice power and I like the sound every now and then..

cvphoto82075.jpg


cvphoto82076.jpg


cvphoto82077.jpg
 
Back in the 70's I worked on drilling rigs in Appalachia drilling for natural gas. We used compressed air instead of mud. Our typical rig had a 12v92 TA on the drawworks, four 750 cfm Joy air compressors with 6v72's, feeding into an air booster pump that had two 6-71's mounted side by side about 4 apart, both feeding into a single clutch assembly going into the air booster end. Each engine was the mirror opposite of the other, and both shared the same radiator. When drilling, all of the air compressors and booster were running flat out, probably averaged about 22 hours per day at full throttle. All of these motors were set up such that all were within 50' of each other
And my wife wonders why my hearing is poor.
 
swindave, You really opened up a can of worms, good job, there is a great collection of good stories & info. You even aroused some of the other color green guys and maybe some DD haters.

I have 3 1950's and make hay with 1 of them. The other 2 are MFWD's and 1 is an actual El Toro, exported to South America and then 50 years later imported to the US west coast with very rotten original terra tires. All were originally 105 hp but now are boosted to 175 hp with some military parts. I have chased all the local 4020's home dragging their tails with my 1900 Cockshutt with only a few mods.

cvphoto82078.jpg
 
Don't forget in a Stagecoach, also known as Greyhound Bus. When I was in the bus industry, the gray dog was running 6v92 turbos, with 5 speed Allison trans. Gutless Wonder until get them wound up. Outfit I ran for used 8v71 with 4 speed gear drive, later 5 speed. Had some 1986 models with 8v92 turbos with 5 speed. Those were fun to herd down the road.
Had our own in house machinist do the rebuilding. None of his rebuilds ever leaked oil. Up to 200,000 miles was considered a fresh engine. At around 800,- 900,000 miles they would start to smoke too much, time to do a swap. Always had a spare of each size engine in shop, ready for when a transplant was needed. Give Tommy, the machinist a couple helpers, could do engine swap in 4 hours, ready to hit the road. Always liked to see him do a test run / tune up on a fresh rebuild. Have one sitting on a pallet, temporary fuel tank, muffler etc. hooked up. Fast idle around 1000 rpm about 20 minutes listening for unfriendly noises. No bad noises or leaks, he would say Lets see if it is a good one, grab the rack & open it up. If no parts seen bouncing off the ceiling he was happy, called it a good one. Said in his 35 years building engines he only had 1 run away.

Willie
 
Got a couple of John Deere crawler 440ICD s setting out in the back yard. 2-53 Detroit Diesels. The 440IC used a Deere gas engine.
 
From 1975 thru 1995 I was a CNC Manufacturing Engineer at a Tier 1 machine shop in suburban Detroit. We machined several flywheels and various smaller parts, all cast iron, for the big engines, like on big trucks, ships, etc. We had almost all of the parts on the Series 60 Engine. I processed all of the turning department. My duties included writing out the NC Program in long-hand, in absolute, processing the operations, procuring tooling, setting up the lathes and proving out the program. Then it was training operators to run the parts and moving on to next part. About once a month I would have to go to Detroit to meet with the Diesel engineers and go over current part production and upcoming new ones to begin quoting on to the next project which could be another DD part, a Ford part, a GM part, or a Chrysler part -we were pretty diversified. Now retired, I remember those days well but don't miss them either.

Tim Daley(MI)
 
Had a couple I knew of, 671s (inline 6 with 71 cu in per cyl) in tandem, bobtail, rock buckets. Had that notorious noise the 2 strokers made, as you went ripping through the gears. Reputation around here was that they were great engines, just bring along a gallon jug of oil and rig an oil pan underneath.

Never addressed what leaked giving them their reputation. I think Greyhound used the engine in a rear mount in their double deck SeniCruisers and some GM city busses used them too......on the city busses, Houston, Tx. to name a city in particular, they must have never serviced the injectors because they were a significant source of city air pollution when I was growing up.
 
Sounds like you had quite the job. Your comment that you don't miss them....those days......one does what one has to do when the need arises without realizing the magnitude at the time. Only when one retires and has the time to think through life's challenges does one realize just what you were up against..........and won! Retied farmers, especially BTOs running family farms surely fit into that category!
 
They would be good for pumps and generator units . Sucked for jobs needing torque. Like tractors trucks and such. Lot of noise and no balls. They didn't cal them hill sniffers for nothing. Oil leaking messy junk. I never liked even the penske ungrade were still hii sniffers. Used to run I-77 in WV with box trailer. If you didn't come across the bottoms about 70-80 you would be dragging up the next hill. They were dragon fly engines. Fly down hill and drag up the next. Drove an old transtar with the double breasted yamaha in it. Gutless wonder had a tripple with a lift hauling Sugar beets least little hump and it fell on it's face. Best to slam your hand in the door then drive all pi88 at it. Have to run at 1800-2100 or fall flat on it's face. Noisy asn all get out. Nope don't miss them old deriots.
 
Your comment about river barges....I worked the last 2 summers in high school on the Intercoastal, up the Miss. to Vicksburg, MS, and swamps
of Louisiana on a couple of tugs, first year as a deck hand and second year as a cook since I could cook and nobody else on board could...upped
my pay a buck a day...from $15 to 16, room and board furnish...great wages back in '58-'59. We ran barge traffic of all sorts and running the oil
rigs back up the Mermentau River in Louisiana was the most work....wasn't half a mile of straight river the whole way. We'd usually come in with
4 ea 135' oil barges as I recall and have to S them the whole way.....but, for a high school kid and summer activity, I loved it!!!!

The first boat was the Atlas and had a 6 cyl. monster with exposed pushrods and valve train making a clackety clack noise and 400 HP at it's
900-1000 RPM running speed. The second boat, the Lone Star, had a V-12 cylinder GM 4 stroke putting out 1000 HP as I recall. The GM was
smooth as silk and very quiet for an engine that had side panels and the grease monkeys would take a side panel off and crawl into the engine
for repairs some times.
 
That's a lot of engine for a single axle rock bucket. Guys I knew were running tandem bobtails just touching the rural road-bridge load requirement of 58,420 # GVWT, with 10 speed Danas.
 
You get to a hill and it will go backwards just as fast.

Had to laugh at that. I had a 800 cu in 400 hp Big Cam I6 Cummins with a 15 speed Spicer in a 1979 International Cab over 18 wheeler that was fun to drive. What amazed me was that you only needed the clutch to start and stop......my first and only big truck experience. Once rolling, get the engine rpms and tranny rpms aligned, and one finger on the shifter and she was ready for another whack at the 300 RPM power band.
 
The Fuel Pinched was NOT the first attempt at a 4 cycle engine, in the mid '60's they made the Toro-flo. I knew of 2 in GM trucks. One of them was a Detroit Diesel Distributorship in Toronto On.that worked in '69-'71.
 
(quoted from post at 04:53:03 03/19/21) Got a couple of John Deere crawler 440ICD s setting out in the back yard. 2-53 Detroit Diesels. The 440IC used a Deere gas engine.
Click to expand...
The gas engine in the 440's was souped up compared to the gas engine in the 420/430.
 
(quoted from post at 06:54:40 03/19/21) The Fuel Pinched was NOT the first attempt at a 4 cycle engine, in the mid '60's they made the Toro-flo. I knew of 2 in GM trucks. One of them was a Detroit Diesel Distributorship in Toronto On.that worked in '69-'71.
Click to expand...

Harper Detroit Diesel in south Etobicoke ? Where you there when the apprentice filled the cups on the oil bath air cleaners to the brim ?
 
They leaked oil out drip pans that collected spillage from the row of holes in the sleeves where the air came in, 2-stroke engines,, they went to four stroke I want to say in the later 90's due to emissions regs and that fact they leaked oil constantly,,,
 
All GM buses whether parlor jobs (over the road) or transit units, used Detroit Diesel engines since the 40s (30s?). The only exceptions were smaller, less expensive transit busses built in the 60s that offered either diesel or gasoline GMC Toro Flow 4 cycle engines. IIRC, the City of Terre Haute, IN had a fleet of these powered by V6 Toro Flow diesel engines.

Parlor jobs used 4 speed manual transmissions whereas transit busses used 2 speed hydramatic transmissions with the GM V drive. The V drive was innovated by GMC in the late 30s and is still used by most (all?) bus manufacturers to this day.

Properly maintained, Detroit Diesel engines leaked little or no oil but most did due to the lack of proper maintenance.

Dean
 
If you want an engine thats obnoxious to listen to and no torque at anything below full throttle get a two cycle Detroit
 
Agreed, Willie.

As previously stated above, properly maintained, Detroit Diesel engines leaked little or no oil.

After my Father retired from GMC Truck and Coach in 1969, he consulted with Continental Trailways. They wanted to hire him full time to manage the bus shop in Indianapolis but it was 100 miles from home and, being retired, he did not want a 100 mile commute.

When he started working for Continental Trailways, all of their buses were black and sooty both inside and outside behind the rear axle. Within a year, all were nearly leak free and the clean and shinny aluminum bodies gleamed in the sun.

Dean
 
I question the 4 stroke, Mark.

I do not believe that GMC made any 4 stroke diesel engines (excepting the Toro Flow engines built in the 60s) until the 60 series was introduced.

That said, many EMD and GMC two stroke engines have been used (and are still being used) in marine applications.

Dean
 
I posted this link in a sub thread below but have moved it up here for those who might like to see some of the applications for GMC (Detroit) diesel engines in WWII.

Dean
GMC Diesel in WWII
 
(quoted from post at 06:51:55 03/19/21) swindave, You really opened up a can of worms, good job, there is a great collection of good stories & info. You even aroused some of the other color green guys and maybe some DD haters.

I have 3 1950's and make hay with 1 of them. The other 2 are MFWD's and 1 is an actual El Toro, exported to South America and then 50 years later imported to the US west coast with very rotten original terra tires. All were originally 105 hp but now are boosted to 175 hp with some military parts. I have chased all the local 4020's home dragging their tails with my 1900 Cockshutt with only a few mods.

<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto82078.jpg>
Click to expand...


I'm not defending John Deere 4020 here.
The Ollie 1900 weights 12,000 lbs. and is 100HP. The JD4020 weights 9,500 lbs and is 90/95HP (depending on year). So yes, you should be able to send them 4020 home dragging their tails.

What mods did you make to increase the HP on them gutless Detroit's? On a 4 valve head and with N65 injectors you will gain about 3 ponies as you are limited by air intake of the Roots blower / vane pump. Did you manage to install a turbo? Pics please. What other modifications did you do to get 175HP?
 
we had over 40 of them from brand new over the years where I worked,, every one leaked oil right from the get go they were built that way, when you have a row of 1 long oblonged holes in the sleeve the pistons rings went past every stroke there is going to be oil transfer, you must never have had or seen one apart,, yes as rings/sleeves and piston wore they would leak more, the V-8's in the trucks lost at least 1/2 a gallon a day (8hr run time average) most used at least a gallon,, this was in trucks scraper rollers generator sets and loaders, they built drip in collection pans and had drip tubes factory so how you are claiming they do not drip much unless they have had crappy service confuses me,, again they were built to leak oil
 
(quoted from post at 09:55:16 03/19/21) we had over 40 of them from brand new over the years where I worked,, every one leaked oil right from the get go they were built that way, when you have a row of 1 long oblonged holes in the sleeve the pistons rings went past every stroke there is going to be oil transfer, you must never have had or seen one apart,, yes as rings/sleeves and piston wore they would leak more, the V-8's in the trucks lost at least 1/2 a gallon a day (8hr run time average) most used at least a gallon,, this was in trucks scraper rollers generator sets and loaders, they built drip in collection pans and had drip tubes factory so how you are claiming they do not drip much unless they have had crappy service confuses me,, again they were built to leak oil
Click to expand...

Also if the drip tubes got plugged up, it could run away from burning it's own oil.
 

Interesting topic and stories here. We used the 4-53's, 6-71's, and the 8's on our drilling rigs around here in the 70's and 80's. 4-53 on the water pumps and on up for the mud pumps and drawworks. Would use one 6-71 for normal drilling but when it came time for a bit trip, start the other one, shift it in gear with the other, and those babies would scream running in tandem pulling pipe out of the hole. I don't remember having any problems with oil leaks though. We'd check the oil at the start of every tower and it didn't seem to be a problem. Daylight driller would do the oil changes. Of course every time there was more than 2 seconds of idle time that meant all the hands grabbed a bucket of rig wash and a brush and wash the rig down.

Dean's stuff was interesting. I think the PT boats used twin 8 cylinders with the manual shift power divider. I'd like to have one to cruise around the lake and do a little fishing. Read where they found John Kennedy's second PT boat after the PT109 was sunk in the Solomons, the PT59 was found sunk in the harbor off of Manhattan, New York and is being restored. Used plywood for the hulls. Didn't know the landing craft were plywood also. No wonder they didn't stop any bullets.
 
Many GMC diesel engines were used by the military in WWII but the PT boats were powered by Packard built V12 gasoline engines.

Dean
 
GMC diesel engines would also run away if the oil level in the oil bath air cleaners was too high.

This was not uncommon in the South Pacific in WWII as engines were irregularly maintained in war time and condensation or sea water would contaminate the oil cups in the air cleaners raising the oil level to a
point where the engine would pull it into the blower inlet and run away.

An alert crew could sometimes stall a run away in dual or quad units by declutching the other engines and engaging the prop thereby stalling the run away, but usually they simply bolted from the engine room.

Dean
 
Been around them since the 60's . I have run heavy equipment with them in it ran a OIL ALL OVER 1950 G and driven semi's with them in it . Yes they LEAK OIL and i don't care how much Permatex ya use when rebuilding from a bare block they LEAK OIL . I have run semi's with the 6-71 's and 318's . A no power engine just lots of noise , not a long living engine as the 318's we felt lucky if we made it past a 100000 miles before they drop kicked ya. And easy shade tree mechanic rebuildable engine. When one would start pushing water on ya and ya did not crack a head we would stop and make a phone call to a friend and tell him about what time we should hit the barn and Dick would be there waiting with 8 kits two pan gskts and a upper set and two fresh heads with new N 70 Brown tag injectors . Drain the oil and what ever water was left in it and tear into the side that let go , stuff in four kits a new set of rod bearings on that bank put the pan back up and stuff a rebuilt head on that bank with four rebuilt injectors dump the oil and water to it and be done around 10 a quick supper shower and to bed and back up at three to head to the mine to load the first load for the day. Run all day and beat feet for the house and tear into the other side and be back on the road again in the morning . 7 318's in seven different trucks and seven rebuilds in seven years . We had a saying that a Detroit would use a gallon of oil a day even if you did not run it . Townwships had to start oiling the roads for dust control once we all started to get smart and got away from the Detroits and the old strip mines started to close up so no more free road oiling from the old Detroits.
 
Any idea as to what hear that might be? Was Porky Campbell Forman of the truck shop and Dave
Griffith of engine rebuild where I was?
 
(quoted from post at 10:47:43 03/19/21) Many GMC diesel engines were used by the military in WWII but the PT boats were powered by Packard built V12 gasoline engines.

Dean
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. Packard made a good car. Anyway the one we rode around and drank beer in while in high school was good.
 

1st boat in 74 was the Lady Kimberly, twin 16 cylinder EMD's 4000 hp, pushed four 50x300 fuel barges from Helena, Ar to Homestead, Pa across the Monongahela River from Pittsburg, couple of times we traveled the intercostal to Texas City to load.
Switched to the Crimson Glory, twin 16 EMD's with turbo's 5000 hp pushing 25 30x150 grain barges from St Louis to New Orleans and fertilizer back, decided I'd rather paint flat deck fuel barges than pack a hundred sets of rigging to tie those 25 grain barges together so I transferred to the Mary Rose, triple 12 cylinder EMD's with turbo's 6500 hp pushing 6 50x300 fuel barges from St Louis to New Orleans, we made one trip up the Illinois River to Joliet just south of Chicago, that boat was to big for that river and the pilot ran it aground, while we were down in the hole patching the leak he ran it aground again, feeling rocks scrapping that 1/4" thick steel hull we were standing on was a bit unnerving, we were 14 ft down and 5 x braces forward of the top hatch.
 
You pushed barges within 1 1/2 miles of my place in IN on your way to Pittsburg.

Perhaps I watched you lock through at Markland.

Dean
 

Any old Detroit four valve Detroit will make 1/2HP per cubic inch at 1800rpm .
25 to 1 military pistons , C60 injectors , N series sleeves , N series cam follower springs and valve springs . She will turn 2800rpm all day under full load .
170-175HP gross HP at 2800 rpm from a 4-53 is do-able with factory bolt on parts .
 
(quoted from post at 14:04:17 03/19/21) You pushed barges within 1 1/2 miles of my place in IN on your way to Pittsburg.

Perhaps I watched you lock through at Markland.

Dean
Click to expand...

You may have, it was one of the better 1200 ft champers at the time, once we got to Gallipolis, Oh it was all 600 ft locks and breaking to tow the rest of the way.

I crossed Markland once a week in the late 80's hauling car parts out of Vevay, place there made trim parts for the Ford Rangers built in Louisville.
Was there at a sawmill auction around 10 years ago.
 
(quoted from post at 21:02:13 03/19/21)
Any old Detroit four valve Detroit will make 1/2HP per cubic inch at 1800rpm .
25 to 1 military pistons , C60 injectors , N series sleeves , N series cam follower springs and valve springs . She will turn 2800rpm all day under full load .
170-175HP gross HP at 2800 rpm from a 4-53 is do-able with factory bolt on parts .
Click to expand...

That's Flywheel Horsepower.
How much HP is getting to the ground?

Is it safe to say that your JD435 is capable of putting out half of what you said to the ground since it is a 2-53?
 
I was busy and didn't get back to this as soon as I would have liked but sir I really enjoyed your sharing with us these treasures. Really impressive and the rallying of the US work force to support the war effort, and the ability of US industry to expand at the rate and ultimate volume of production in such a short time, and the managing of essential parts and processes and on and on. Utterly amazing and proud to be an American, a US American!

The Atta Boys and Girls from General Montgomery was unbelievable, considering his lofty reputation, and especially thanking them for reliable power for his vehicles supporting his successes in the N. African campaign for which he got significant credibility (which he earned), and to think he took the time to write GM a thank you. I read the book about him and the American Tank guy.....er ah......Patton! Worth your time to read it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
4-51 Detroit Diesel
Replies
16
Views
681
buickanddeere
B
Hdonly
International Harvester F-2275
Replies
3
Views
334
showcrop
showcrop
B
Old Diesel vs Old Gas
Replies
13
Views
498
Michael V (NM)
M
BarnyardEngineering
synchronized transmissions, trucks vs. tractors
2 3 4
Replies
64
Views
3K
caterpillar guy
C
J
2 Stroke Detroit Diesel needing help
Replies
14
Views
875
john connell
J
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top