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discbine vs self propelled haybine.

C

Crookedcreekjerseys

Member
As Ive been getting into more and more hay ground in the past 2 years, starting at only 5 acres to now around 30 it just seems like the John Deere 1219 just isnt moving as quick as I like. I want to upgrade but Im not sure which would be more efficient. Having an extra engine to work on doesnt bother me nor does maintaining a discbine. Ill be picking up another 20 acres this summer and Im definitely going to upgrade. Id like to stay around 9ft for a discbine and 12ft for a self propelled haybine. Unfortunately self propelled disc mowers are few and far between here in ohio so thats not really an option. As for discbines I like the looks of the Gehl 2345s and hesston 1320s. As for self propelled Id like to find a hesston 8200 or new holland 1499. Im open to other models as well. I hope I put my thoughts into words well enough lol.
 
When you start to open an new field with a pull type haybine, you have to drive through the hay on the first round. This first round is the longest and you just drove over the hay and probably can't pick it up on the next round. With the self propelled, you keep all the hay. Important? Yes. Critically important? Probably not. Compare prices, think about the wear maintenance on the tractor compared to that same thing on the self propelled. While the tractor is hooked to the haybine, it isn't available for any other use either.
 
What horsepower tractors do you have?
The 1219 requires less than 5 horsepower per foot, disk mowers take 8 to 10 per foot.
 
(quoted from post at 14:01:32 03/01/21) When you start to open an new field with a pull type haybine, you have to drive through the hay on the first round. This first round is the longest and you just drove over the hay and probably can't pick it up on the next round. With the self propelled, you keep all the hay. Important? Yes. Critically important? Probably not. Compare prices, think about the wear maintenance on the tractor compared to that same thing on the self propelled. While the tractor is hooked to the haybine, it isn't available for any other use either.
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I mow with a disk mower and drive over the first round and other times and never lost a bit of hay. Disc mower cuts clean even when the hay is knocked over.
 
(quoted from post at 14:01:32 03/01/21) When you start to open an new field with a pull type haybine, you have to drive through the hay on the first round. This first round is the longest and you just drove over the hay and probably can't pick it up on the next round. With the self propelled, you keep all the hay. Important? Yes. Critically important? Probably not. Compare prices, think about the wear maintenance on the tractor compared to that same thing on the self propelled. While the tractor is hooked to the haybine, it isn't available for any other use either.
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I mow with a disk mower and drive over the first round and other times and never lost a bit of hay. Disc mower cuts clean even when the hay is knocked over.
 
Not much hay stays down the way I do it. I start cutting on the outside round with the haybine set same as always. i keep going round and round. when I get to the middle of field and finished I do the outside round in reverse and by then it's been 2 hours or more and you can hardly see where the tractor tires actually travelled.
 

I'd go with a 9' discbine over a 12' sickle SP everytime.

No extra engine and power train to worry about is my big thing, plus disc machine will cut anytime wet or dry.
 


X3 on back swathing is no problem with disc mower. I do my back swath after five times around clockwise, because there is often some shade on some of it and it needs the drying time more than the center.
 
If you have a center pivot disc mower and do like some folks and pull it straight behind you on the first round, it will likely leave stripes in the tire tracks. If you run it offset, and come back on that first pass in the opposite direction, it will cut the tire tracks pretty clean.

Self propelled sickle machine, doesnt tie up a tractor if you are short on them. But, any of them that would most likely be in your price range are slow to transport. Might make a difference if your fields are spread out.
 
I have cut hay with just about everything except a scythe. I have a 488 NH haybine cuts in nearly any conditions, but you do have a back swath to cut. 9 foot cut, low hp required . I bought it new 30 years ago. And can still buy parts for it, no problem
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I also have a 12 foot cut JD swather with conditioning rolls. I just love cutting hay with this machine, maybe my favourite way to cut hay.. I just cut 2 passes across both
cvphoto80166.jpg

ends of the field, then start going up and down the longest side till I am all the way across the field. No strike outs, and perfect for irregular shaped fields. Down side is, hay always lays in a windrow, so it does slow drying time. And JD no longer wants to support this machine with parts. Something you want to watch out for when buying older hay equipment. Does the company that built the equipment still support it with parts? Is the company still building hay equipment? Gehl does not.
And my third option, my 3 pth discmower
cvphoto80167.jpg

,This mower cuts near 10 foot, cuts cleanly under all conditions, and never plugs. No conditioning rolls, but lays hay out flat, and it seems to dry just as fast as conditioning hay then leaving it in a tight windrow. Wants a fairly heavy tractor to carry the weight. And you can cut as fast as you feel comfortable driving the tractor across the field.
 
Never having used a disk mower I can't speak to their advantages and many users tout especially their speed, but not caring to burn any more fuel than necessary I find that a self propelled gets the job done every bit as fast for substantially less fuel. I used a 9' Hesston swather for the 20 years that I had the dairy, then more recently when I retired from outside work and started haying again I did look into switching to a disk unit but in the end, with an eye to my operating budget, I bought another 9' Hesston self-propelled.
 
Go with the 9 ft discbine. You can go out early in the morning or late evening and cut where a sickle machine will not. You can also cut much faster. I run the 4020 in 5th gear always and my son will cut in 6th. No sickle machine will even come close. Do not buy a Gehl as they are dropping parts support. Also do not consider a NH 408-411 or the Deere machines built before the 920-930's. The 920's and 930's are fine. The NH and older Deere used an aftermarket cutterbar and parts are way overpriced. I also do not like flail conditioners. Tom
 
Just a thought. Have you considered putting the stub guards on your 1219? Then you could mow with either tractor. I have them on a 1209 and I cover around 90 acres or so. Mow with an IH 656 or an IH 856. I can mow fast enough in these old meadows where I don't think I would want to go any faster. Tried running a JD 1390 with a Ford 5600 once and in good hay it was too much for it. Not sure if yours being newer has more HP than the 5600 or not. I looked at a NH 1411 this Summer and almost bought it , but decided to wait. Looked like a decent machine.
 
Other thoughts after reading Bruce from Canada's post above. when I first got back into making hay I bought a 12' Hesston hydro-swing and discovered that 12' machines don't have 12' crimping rolls so that the hay is windrowed and, at least in our climate, has to be tedded if you even hope to get it dry; meaning another trip over the ground. My 9' swather has full width conditioning rolls, meaning I can lay it out and it dries quickly. Another point Bruce brought up, and because I mow in a similar pattern I would agree wholeheartedly, it is absolutely my favorite way to mow hay.
 

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I have mentioned here several times that I run a NI 5209 and love it. Upgraded from a NH 469. I do majority of my mowing in the evening so the hay is almost always wet. No problem. Mow right after a rain, no problem. 15 minutes per acre in 5th gear. Dont even have to look back. I use to dread 1st cutting, now mowing hay is a relaxing task, not a battle.
 
I ran a 1219 for years. Prolly cut 200acres a year. That machine when dialed in a great haybine. Easy to repair for sure. Having said that, I have a 1412 discbine now. It does cut anything. I still like the 1219.
 
Lots to consider.

What will your rake and baler handle.

How fast you knock it down is only part of the equation.

On 55 acres going from a 9 foot to a 12 foot might save you 4 or 5 hours cutting at say 3 mph.

Is your rake capable of merging 12 foot cuts vs 9 foot cuts?

Depending on the crop will your baler handle 2 12 foot rows raked together?

Faster drying with a narrow cut.

If you can rake 2 rows together when almost dry then you have cut in half the distance you will be baling, that saves time.

Everywhere is different weather wise but even on 200 acres around here the hay never dries fast enough for anything to be ready to bale before I am done cutting so why rush it.
 

A discbine needs 8-10 hp per foot to operate at speed but we had a neighbor who pulled a 9 ft discbine with a 45 hp Ford 3910, he just drove slower.
A disc mower can be operated at speed with 5 hp per foot, I've pulled my 9 ft Kuhn trailed mower with my 4000 Ford that makes 46 hp at pto speed.
 

A discbine that's been very popular around here is the New Idea 5209 which is also the Case 3309 and Massy 1359 and still well supported.
My choice would be a Kuhn, really like my GMD2850 9 ft trailed mower and am looking at a FC2860 discbine for the future.

We put up 165 acres of spring hay and 90 acres of fall hay, mowing mainly done with the 9' Kuhn and if I have a second tractor driver I also have my old Claas 8' drum mower
 
I have some small building lots to cut plus an odd ball shaped piece for a neighbor of 3-4 acres, another acre pasture plus around and behind the barn. I picked up an old NH 9'6" swather 11 miles away last spring, thinking it would be the ticket cutting these convoluted areas. It's a gaser and it seems to do and be what I expected. It is in very good shape for it's age. I've been cutting with a NH 279', could be a digit out on that number, pulling it with a 50's fordson major with out the pto reduction. Works good but not real handy. Why is a haybine worth so much more than a swather? Transportation cost and practicality of transportation? I don't mind parking my keester on a big zero turn. For what I'm doing there is a lot less trampling corners and backing up to place the haybine just right to take another pass on a head land.
 
(quoted from post at 19:40:46 03/02/21) I have some small building lots to cut plus an odd ball shaped piece for a neighbor of 3-4 acres, another acre pasture plus around and behind the barn. I picked up an old NH 9'6" swather 11 miles away last spring, thinking it would be the ticket cutting these convoluted areas. It's a gaser and it seems to do and be what I expected. It is in very good shape for it's age. I've been cutting with a NH 279', could be a digit out on that number, pulling it with a 50's fordson major with out the pto reduction. Works good but not real handy. Why is a haybine worth so much more than a swather? Transportation cost and practicality of transportation? I don't mind parking my keester on a big zero turn. For what I'm doing there is a lot less trampling corners and backing up to place the haybine just right to take another pass on a head land.
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larbear, if you are backing up one inch and trampling corners even in small parcels you are doing something very wrong in your mowing pattern. I haven't backed up since I went from a sickle bar to a mower conditioner.
 
The weak spot on my haybine is the pto. It has been beat up a fair bit, I'm not a fan of trying to make a 90 degree turn clockwise, it rattles pretty loud. I've tried
start cutting in the middle and turn counter clockwise, but with a convoluted building lot of 2 acres working around trees I find I am backing up to make a headland to
turn on.
 
(quoted from post at 16:58:27 03/03/21) The weak spot on my haybine is the pto. It has been beat up a fair bit, I'm not a fan of trying to make a 90 degree turn clockwise, it rattles pretty loud. I've tried
start cutting in the middle and turn counter clockwise, but with a convoluted building lot of 2 acres working around trees I find I am backing up to make a headland to
turn on.
Click to expand...

Larbear, I have had fields with trees, as small as 1.5 acres. I rarely have reason to drop more than one speed on the power shift, and I don't do any 90 degree corners. I go around 4-5 times then strike off lands and keep going along at around 4-5 MPH. Same way everyone else around here does it.
 
Larbear's comment that included the term "zero-turn" really says it all. 45 years ago when a dealer suggested a swather to me I thought he was nuts; after all, I have a small farm. In the end he was right on target. The easiest way to mow small, cut up pieces is with a swather for the same reasons that zero turn mowers are the tool of choice for pro landscapers/lawn mowing contractors. I've spent many an hour dragging a mower conditioner around and also don't ever remember backing up except maybe to clear a plug-up, but if given a choice I'll take a swather any day over a drag-around.
 
Showcrop thank you for your responses.It's an interesting area to cut where you won't find yourself wanting to make a 90 degree turn? There's lots I don't know but I do know what works for me to get hay in front of a feeder and I'm still doing it. Question I wondered, How come swathers are usually quite cheap and haybines go for 2-3 times the money?
 
(quoted from post at 18:48:14 03/04/21) Showcrop thank you for your responses.It's an interesting area to cut where you won't find yourself wanting to make a 90 degree turn? There's lots I don't know but I do know what works for me to get hay in front of a feeder and I'm still doing it. Question I wondered, How come swathers are usually quite cheap and haybines go for 2-3 times the money?
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Larbear, I doubt that my areas are any different from yours. When I was haying 90 acres they were spread out at thirteen different locations with multiple separate fields at these separate locations. Few of the fields were nice rectangles. I learned to break the fields down into rectangles, with almost no left turns. Every left turn necessitates two additional right turns. The first time around clockwise you round your corners off. The next four you just cruise around the corners at 3-4 MPH. After four times around the corners are getting tight so you come out at either short end and go halfway down the end and then go back down the middle. This is what is referred to as "striking off lands". At this point also the "back swath" is mowed. At each corner a loop is done to make the second needed pass. When mowing the lands you lift your mower at the ends and come around in a smooth 4 MPH arcing turn and then go back on the other side. When the land gets narrow you don't make a tight right turn, you make an easy left turn and go over to the adjacent land maintaining 4-5 MPH. I know little about swathers. They are not in use in this area. From what I have seen of how they steer I can't imagine keeping one under control at 5 MPH. Larger farms of course use wider mowers or mount three ten footers on a tractor, one in the front and two on the back. A few use what could be called a swather which has a ten footer in front and one on each side towards the rear. Search for Krone Big M. Owning a separate machine with a separate drive train to maintain never appealed to me at all. For most of my years of making hay I worked around running a business and did most of my mowing in the evening. With my limited available time I needed to get 15 -20 acres down in a fairly short amount of time when I had a good weather window. I hope that this make sense.
 
Thank you Showcrop, you've explained that very well. I like you have cut raked and baled hay while having another job an enjoyed the gamble. I love it. I guess my question is on the right turns, but I get the fact you are turning on a radius and it gets tight. As well, me being tight to begin with, make my outside pass opposite to what you are doing. It makes sense to do what you are doing and let the grass, hay get some recoil. I have what was my Dad's '47 IH horse drawn sickle bar, chopped tongue and adapted for tractor, sitting on a slab- corn crib foundation. When I came back from the west 30 yrs ago that was and had been our hay mower. I had a nephew in a make work moment take the mower guards off for use on my new idea 7' mower which I will keep. Pains me a bit to see the old ground drive mower go to naught. I like the 479, it will go through anything if properly maintained. Thanks for your input Showcrop, I appreciate it.
 
To answer your question as to cost; here in the northernmost reaches of the Peoples Progressive Paradise of NY they are for the most part comparably priced although the larger (12', 14') swathers are usually more than a comparable hydro-swing. A working 9' in reasonably decent shape whether a swather or mo/con will sell for $1500 +/- although they sell quite often for $500 if they need any tinkering at all.
 
Thanks Jaoneill, here in Chatham Kent up 60 miles from Windsor Ont, a haybine 45 years old might go for 2-4000$ and a swather might be 1500$ on down. Interesting.
 
We're just across the creek from Brockville Ontario. I have two neighbors who purchased machines year before last; one paid $750 for a working unit that he bought from another farmer locally. It had been stored outside and looked kinda rough but he hasn't had to do a thing to it in the way of repairs. The other paid $3,200 from a dealer for the same model NH, I'm thinking they are 479's, that had obviously spent its days under cover in the off-season and looked to be in better condition; he hadn't mowed ten acres and the wobble box self destructed. That same year, a friend two roads over picked up a 9' Hesston swather like mine for just under $1,000, and other than replacing a few belts he has had no issues with his machine. I might suggest that you watch craigslist or marketplace in NY, especially up here in the northern areas. Once they open the border farm stuff passes across freely. I bought my round baler up toward Montreal and came right across the border with no problem (or duties).
 
We're just across the creek from Brockville Ontario. I have two neighbors who purchased machines year before last; one paid $750 for a working unit that he bought from another farmer locally. It had been stored outside and looked kinda rough but he hasn't had to do a thing to it in the way of repairs. The other paid $3,200 from a dealer for the same model NH, I'm thinking they are 479's, that had obviously spent its days under cover in the off-season and looked to be in better condition; he hadn't mowed ten acres and the wobble box self destructed. That same year, a friend two roads over picked up a 9' Hesston swather like mine for just under $1,000, and other than replacing a few belts he has had no issues with his machine. I might suggest that you watch craigslist or marketplace in NY, especially up here in the northern areas. Once they open the border farm stuff passes across freely. I bought my round baler up toward Montreal and came right across the border with no problem (or duties).
 
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