Wisconsin VH4D

Vincent C · Feb 25, 2021

Hello all!

Its been a struggle to get this old baby running to perfection again. Replaced the points and condenser because it stopped firing. I did not change any of the magneto positions as I understand the issues with that.

Once reinstalled I cannot get it to fire on #3 plug. I have a book, but it references several models and firing orders without describing the different models. We do not see a way to time this baby even though they talk about using a timing light in the book.

This distributor Is the one that sticks straight out and into the oil filter and doesnt take a turn. We have lined up the flywheel to TDC and the hatch mark through the inspection hole on the magneto in several positions thinking it was inserted a tooth off with no relief. One tooth up or down it wont fire at all.

Even though there is a slot at the bottom bolt hole that magneto does not adjust.

If anyone has encountered this problem before we would appreciate your input.

Thanks!

rustred · Feb 25, 2021

check the compression first. those engines are very prone to valves sticking or burning. that is first on the list then go from there. post
your results. and use care removing plugs as the seize up in the aluminum threads and strip. use never seize.

Steve@Advance · Feb 25, 2021

Do you not have spark on #3?

Or is #3 cylinder just not making a difference when you pull the wire?

Timing being off will not cause a single cylinder to misfire.

Look for the reason #3 is not contributing. If it has lost spark, look for closed up points, bad cap, bad wire.

If it has spark at the plug, look for loss of compression, vacuum leak.

wore out · Feb 25, 2021

First of all, do you have a magneto or a distributor, you use those terms interchangeably and they are NOT.

Also, some Wisconsin V-4's are "odd-fire", the breaker point cam lobes are not equidistant from each other. (IIRC, the VH4D may NOT be "odd-fire", but a lot of parts and I.D. plate can get mixed and matched and swapped over decades.)

IF "odd-fire" and the mag or distributor is NOT installed with the point cam position EXACTLY corresponding to the individual cylinder it's supposed to be matched to the engine will not run correctly.

As to using a timing light, there's a marked cooling fin on the flywheel and corresponding timing marks stamped in the steel cooling shroud that surrounds the flywheel.

Vincent C · Feb 25, 2021

c Good point! Will investigate.

fixerupper · Feb 25, 2021

Check your points gap again. I ran into this with a neighbors tractor the other day. The point gap was way wide. I reset the points and the tractor ran fine.

Vincent C · Feb 25, 2021

Magneto. Good point. It runs with a miss on #3. 1&3 fire at the same time. We have placed the hatch on the magneto gear centered on the inspection hole when the flywheel is TDC.

Im sure of the VH4D as the place is riveted in. Breaker point cam lobes... got to think on that info, not clear.

Vincent C · Feb 25, 2021

Did the gap effect just one cylinder?

Steve@Advance · Feb 25, 2021

Point gap can affect just one cylinder.

If the points are closed up or set way wide, loose distributor bushings and runout on the cam lobe will cause some to barely break while the others don't break or make at all.

fixerupper · Feb 25, 2021

Yes it affected just one cylinder. The points lobe must have been just a twitch taller for that cylinder. Its just a suggestion.

rustred · Feb 25, 2021

i am not putting out details until you check the compression and check for spark at the plug, as your post says " i cannot get it to fire
on #3 plug." i said what to check. compression and spark at the plug. that tells a lot, so why have us guessing. and you gave no history on
the engine if it sat a long time or when and how this miss came about. need details and work with us. and our info is free.

Keith-OR · Feb 25, 2021

I have an original VH4D manual all it covers is the VH4D. I also have the same manual in PDF format. on my computer.
If you would like a copy, I would gladly email you a copy of the PDF manual.

My email is open.

Also Do you have the cap wired correctly? #1 is marked on the cap, top right side. then it fires 1342 in clock wise rotation.
#1 cylinder is the nearest to the flywheel on the left bank viewing from the flywheel end of motor.

Vincent C · Feb 25, 2021

(quoted from post at 08:40:35 02/25/21) check the compression first. those engines are very prone to valves sticking or burning. that is first on the list then go from there. post
your results. and use care removing plugs as the seize up in the aluminum threads and strip. use never seize.

Very good Point. thanks

Vincent C · Feb 25, 2021

Thank you!

Vincent C · Feb 25, 2021

Hello,
Will do the checking on the compression tomorrow. This old girl was running like her usual gem and for the last few decades. Them boom she stopped. figured the condenser had run it course and changed it out with the points. Double checked my gap on the points but you never know.
I thank you in advance and will report back.

rustred · Feb 25, 2021

how long was it sitting? i would bet on a stuck valve . saw lots like that.

Farmboy 81 · Feb 25, 2021

If the pictures load up, there is 2 marks
on the flywheel cover that is pointed out
by white chalk on this VH4D. The bottom
mark at about 10 oclock is supposed to be
TDC for number 1 cylinder. The top mark at
about 11 oclock is the one used for a
timing light. Remove the mesh air screen
and there will be 1 small air vane with a
faint X stamped on the end. Align the
outer edge of this vane with the lower
mark on cover. Remove the distributor cap
and see if the rotor button is pointed at
number 1 tower. If not may have to
withdraw the mag and turn button to retime
it. It doesn't have to be off but 1 tooth
to make a huge difference on a tired
engine. Don't forget firing order is 1342.

C

Farmboy 81 · Feb 25, 2021

Another thing I've had happen is the
quality of today's points and condensers
leave a lot to be desired. Had one of
these engines totally rebuilt about 2 yrs
ago and put in brand new out of the box
condensor and points and it ran as you
described cause they were no good.
Thankfully that one had a distributor and
I put electronic ignition in it. Instantly
it ran like a sewing machine.

Tramway Guy · Feb 25, 2021

If it definitely is a VH4D, it is not an odd-fire engjne as those
were the VE4(D) and VF4(D). If they had magnetos, the
mags ran at engine speed and fired twice for each cycle. The
VH4D used half-speed mags.

If the VF4(D) used a distributor, it probably used a lobe that
was not square, but a D kind of shape and had to be
installed exactly in the right spot to time all 4 cylinders
correctly.

Vincent C · Mar 15, 2021

Hello, Compression test resulted in 70 pounds each. doesnt seem to be the problem. Thanks

Vincent C · Mar 15, 2021

biy this is diffetnt than mine. My TDC is at 12 noon.

Vincent C · Mar 15, 2021

I was running fine. then days later wouldnt start. Thought it was the condersor as it wouldnt fire.

Vincent C · Mar 15, 2021

Intresting point. It appears someone has taken the magneto apart, as my #1 is bottom right, not top right. it ran that way and i didnt change it until this condensor change out. we have tried several different installs using the "X" on the vane at noon and it fired on three cylinders only. We pulled the distributor and line up #1 tower when the magneto snapped. nothing, one tooth up and one tooth down and nothing. all of these setups was contrary to the X at TDC and seeing the hatch on the gear through the peep hole. That worked on three cylinders. was told through this forum that it could be the gap, and checked that. Seemed a little tight and were trying that next.

Vincent C · Mar 15, 2021

(quoted from post at 09:41:39 02/25/21)
First of all, do you have a magneto or a distributor, you use those terms interchangeably and they are NOT.

Also, some Wisconsin V-4's are "odd-fire", the breaker point cam lobes are not equidistant from each other. (IIRC, the VH4D may NOT be "odd-fire", but a lot of parts and I.D. plate can get mixed and matched and swapped over decades.)

IF "odd-fire" and the mag or distributor is NOT installed with the point cam position EXACTLY corresponding to the individual cylinder it's supposed to be matched to the engine will not run correctly.

As to using a timing light, there's a marked cooling fin on the flywheel and corresponding timing marks stamped in the steel cooling shroud that surrounds the flywheel.

Hey "Wore Out". seems that someone has taken this magneto apart as my #1 is below the spot is should be. Please see my comments below on our snapping the magneto and trying to line it up with #1. Thanks

Vincent C · Mar 15, 2021

(quoted from post at 13:53:36 02/25/21) i am not putting out details until you check the compression and check for spark at the plug, as your post says " i cannot get it to fire
on #3 plug." i said what to check. compression and spark at the plug. that tells a lot, so why have us guessing. and you gave no history on
the engine if it sat a long time or when and how this miss came about. need details and work with us. and our info is free.

ey Rusted. I have compression and spark. please read my remarks updated. Thanks!

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