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JD 3020 or IH 656 Which to buy?

T

TXFarmallguy

New User
I need a tractor with a FEL to move round bales and also mow a few times a year. It would also serve as a backup for raking, misc loader work, and other little duties around here.

I have found a JD 3020 Diesel with powershift and an International 656 diesel with hydro. Which one would I be happier with? By happy I mean ease of repair (I prefer to do my own), cost of parts and overall reliability. Thanks.
 
Sounds like you have two good finalists to choose from. Goes without saying you are looking at machines over 50 years old, most likely with unknown maint histories to
you. It almost a personal preference thing to me... ie are you a 'red guy' or a 'green guy". dont know alot about 656 hydro's except they have generally stood the test
of time. The 3020 has as well. If something breaks in the powershift tranny, you are looking at writing a big check. Other posters will be along to let you know the
3020 engine is an 'orphan' and if you somehow need a major repair like new block, etc those replacements are rare. However, sounds like you wont be using it too heavily
so IMHO thats not a big factor to consider if you are confident you are not buying some one elses problem. Parts availability is good for both. Be sure to examine the
front end on both tractors since you are going FEL.
 
I will offer my thoughts with the background first. I have a 3020 Synchro as my loader tractor and have driven 20 series PS with a loader some. For loader work given the choice
I would take the Synchro hands down. Straight line shift instead of shifting all the way to neutral and back up.

Given the choices you describe I think the Hydro is the better option IF the trans is in good shape. Working on hydro transmissions is not for the backyard mechanic. I will
tackle many jobs but farm out Hydro and auto transmission work so really neither of your choices would I work on the transmissions but for functionality as a loader deliver me
from the JD powershift.

JM2CW

jt
 
The cost and expertise in the ih hydro is prohibitive high, other than that the handling of the
hydro with the loader would be better than the John Deer. But a 30 year old hydro could be an
expensive lesson.
 
Drive each one and do several forward/backwards direction changes and see which type shifter you
prefer.
 
Comes down to which one of the two you find that is in better condition versus the other. Not going to find much in the way of new parts for either today. A big
check to write in terms of the transmission either way you go when they need repairs. I don't think that either transmission is for a novice but the hydro in the IH less
so.
 
Thanks for your input. I had heard the powershift provided more lifting capacity to the hydraulics than the synchro. Is that true or just foolishness? As long as I can double stack round bales that is all I need. I am working on a budget and would prefer not to have something that could turn into something I would have to pay someone else to fix.
 

My neighbors had a Hydro 86. They were extremely anti maintenance but to the best of my knowledge they never had any trouble with it. They traded it on a larger Deere thirty years ago.
 
I am a syncro person and have not driven an IH hydro but comparing a 3020 to a 656 go with the 3020. Faster hyd's and much better steering. You also have a trans. park. The 656 only has a brake lock which almost got my neighbor killed. Neighbor has a 656 they bought new and took good care of but every time he drives one of my 3020-4020's he wishes his dad had bought a green tractor. Tom
 
A Hydro 86 will get you into a D312 engine which I believe is quite a bit better than the D282 in the 656.
 
So, there is a third option. In the same price range/condition a 4010 synchro with a FEL. Would that be a better option for my limited needs?
 
A 3020 has some improvements over the 10
series, if the 4010 is in good condition
and you don't abuse it, it would work
well. I personally would go for the 3020
as it still had plenty of power but is a
little easier on fuel. Especially if it is
a late 3020 with side console hydraulics.
 
Too bad for the distance between us. I have a 4020 diesel powershift for sale. Much better bet than a 3020 as it doesn't have an orphaned engine. And I think it's just as handy.
 
My brother has a 656 diesel that had a cracked head. . Anyway there are NO heads around for them. Does anyone know if this is true about hard to find heads? He paid someone to take it off and sent to the some place in Iowa that welds heads and is suppose to be the best. That didnt last very long. Now it just sits.
 
I really like my 656 H,yes the front end has a design problem in the steering cylinder mount.(3 bolts
that need to be tight and checked a few times a year) THe hydro works great, and when is breaks it
will cost more than another tractor. To check the hydro put the loader against a tree and try to push
it over,if the tires do not spin runaway.(Low range)
 
TX welcome to YT! I spent a lot of my youth herding a
656 gasser gear drive. The hydro is a whole different
animal which I don’t have much experience with. I do
know if you get it and have problems with the hydro
you will want to have the contact info for Herrs
Machine Hydrostatics in Washington, KS ..see link
they are 15 miles from my hometown in KS.. they are
the go to for those Hydro tractors. I will also say the
tractors you chose are neither very user friendly in the repair of their transmissions. Both will require above
average mechanical skills to work on at least the
transmission. I will say that the 3020 will have by far
better hydraulics then the IH and also better brakes.
I can see how a syncro trans user may get the idea that those transmissions have a better shift pattern than the powershift, I would disagree. If you get the 3020 post back and I will describe how you can use the powershift transmission with minimal clutch pedal use. Way better for a loader than the manual trans in my opinion. Also the comment about the 3020 engine being
difficult to find a replacement block for is an
unfounded statement.
Herrs Machine
 
Partial to the 3020 myself . Enough lead in its a** to do big
jobs nimble enough to run a 7 foot sickle mower . 8 speed
powershift is nice as well . Either are probably going to be a
good tractor . Buy the tractor go find a farmhand f11 for about
1500.00$ and your ready to go
cvphoto72411.jpg


cvphoto72412.jpg


cvphoto72413.jpg
 
Since your handle is txfarmallguy I'm surprised you would even be looking at a JD ?
As far as JD power shift verses syncro and lift capacity there will be no difference as they run the same
hyd. pressure. Now if you sit in one spot with the clutch pedal held down on the syncro you will run out of
hyd. fluid if you cycle the loader a lot as the front pump needs oil supplied from the trans. pump. You have
to shift to neutral and let the clutch back out to prevent this.
 
Mike, that makes sense thanks for the explanation.

My grandfather was a Farmall guy and my dad was John Deere. I have so many memories on Farmalls as a kid and I have a Formal 140 and H that are mainly parade and hay ride tractors. My main work tractor is green.

I currently borrow my neighbors FEL when we bring in hay, but would like to get my own so I can stack the bales and make better use of our storage. I am limited on funds for this project and so price point rules and I am not a fan of tractors full of electronics for what I do. Green seems to be my best bet, just trying to make the best decision.
 
Once you have driven a Hydro tractor in loader work, there will be instant respect. The best option is to make sure it still can pull hard and shift to the
ranges. they are seriously made for that purpose. Jim
 
if the 656 was gas, I would go with that one. Glow plug diesels like the 560 and 656 are a constant PITA (I have a 560D), and like was
said, heads are super scarce and $$$$ if it cracks from running hot or inadequate cooldown. I have 4 656 gas hydros, 2 with loaders.
Can't beat a hydro for loader jobs. I also have New Idea loaders on a 3010 and 4010. The JDs will pick more weight than the 656s. Of
the 2 choices you listed and if they are in similar condition, I would pick the JD, and I'm mostly a Farmall guy.
 
I'm an IH guy and would go to a 4020 power shift. Those syncro's don't have the levers all welded for nothing. Around here a lot of them have been welded from not shifting god or being in a hurry.
I don't know if it is true but heard the 3020 had problems with the main clutch split working loose and then would have additional problems if not kept track of. Like I say don't know if it is true or not.
I would look for a loader with MFWD if I was going to have to use it in less than dry conditions. You will not find that in a 20 series Deere of that vintage. Nor and IH either. Might find an 856 or bigger with one but would be clumsy long geared for turning.
 
I have never seen a welded lever in my life ? Maybe someone bought a synchro and thought he bought a powershift? Mfwd is nice but necessary no .
cvphoto72469.jpg

That lely weighs 3000 pounds
 

I have a 4020 long crooked lever that I purchased with broken lever.
I suspect that people brake them trying to get them out of park on steep hills, not knowing how to use the spring action of the speed shifter.
 
I suppose that could be . But I doubt it I spend plenty of time
parked on hills and never broke one . The synchro is nice for
loader work because you 1-3- and reverse 2-5 and reverse
And with a little work you have 4-7 and reverse all
synchronized and in line with each other . Third reverse is
really nice for hauling bales grab one on the loader in 4th
cruise over line up with one on the rear fork shift into 3
reverse back into the bale shift into 4th get rolling and shift to
7th and head for the stack yard hauled thousands of bales
that Same way for a Lot of years . Powershift is nice because
you can go forward or back without using the clutch
 
At over 50 years old, tractor condition and the loader on each tractor will make a big difference. Will the loader stay on the tractor full time or does it need to be easily removed? All things being equal, you can probably find a 4020 for about the same price as a 3020 with similar condition and options. The extra weight and longer wheel base of the bigger tractor help traction in loader work.

SyncroRange is still pretty good for loader work. The 3 - 3R and 2 - 5 - 5R patterns work well. Hydro would be better, but IH steering, and open center hydraulics would not be as nice. Brakes may not matter if you use the hydro for braking.
 
The closed center hyd. system on a JD uses a piston pump at the frt. driven off the crank. Piston pumps can't suck fluid up so it needs fluid to be supplied to it from a transmission driven gear pump. On the syncro trans. pushing the clutch pedal down stops the transmission driven pump. On the power shift the clutch pedal is not working a clutch but just a "inching valve" as they call it. I guess I used the wrong term. You don't run out of fluid just the flow of fluid.
 
I have ruled out the 656. It hurts because I wanted another red tractor, but your points helped me eliminate that option for my current needs.

I am going to look at the 3020 this week. It is showing about 2000 hours. It does have a loader, but looks like it has had a pretty good life. But pictures can always be deceiving.

What are some things I should look out for when reviewing this 3020 for purchase?

Thanks for your input.
 
I've heard people have problems with the
front axle on 4020s, if the front axle has
been welded up then someone has probably
been using the loader to lift things they
shouldn't be lifting. Since it is a
powershift make sure all the gears work.
Check for cracks on the loader mounts or
frame rails.
 
Yours is an interesting question since you have indicated below that you are watching your pennies. I live about 2000 miles from Texas and I can tell you for certain that
if a 3020D came on the market with 2,000 hours on it in my area and it "looked like it had a good life" there would be guys lining up around the block to buy it. My whole
point here is that if you are watching your money and if the 3020 was priced properly, it would probably be out of your price range. Therefore, it is highly likely if not
definite that the hours are bogus. Go in to it assuming the hours are at least 2 or 3x the advertised hours.
 
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