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silly question??

V

venuschild1968

New User
I needed to change the antifreeze yesterday in my 51 Ferguson TO-20, we are in Ohio, its winter here. So, I drained it out of the radiator. I filled it up with approximately a gallon and a half of straight full strength. Today I went and started her up and ran her for about 25 minutes. I imagine this would be long enough for the thermostat to open and the block water/antifreeze to mix with the radiator contents.... so when the tractor cooled I did the test thing with the antifreeze tester and it registered all the way strong up at the top for as cold as it could get so.. my question is, did I run my poor tractor long enough for the thermostat to open or not? how can I be sure?? The Ferguson manual says 10 quarts total and I put a gallon and almost a half in so that is not counting the block, I wonder if I still should throw the block heaters on just in case?
 
About the only way to know for sure would be to pull the radiator cap off while it is running and see if the coolant is moving. If it is the thermostat has opened if it isn't then it hasn't opened
 
I always mix anti freeze 50/50. Did it have straight water in it before you drained it? If you didn't drain the block, you just mixed good antifreeze with whatever you had in it before. If you are changing coolant, you need to drain the block as well as the radiator to get all new antifreeze in it. I was always told that straight antifreeze would ruin the water pump, unless you bought pre-mixed, then you would be OK.
 
Put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator and run it for
about a half hour don’t completely cover the radiator and keep
an eye on it so it doesn’t boil over
 
wrong thing to do, either premix it first min 50/50 or stronger. or add half anti freeze then 1/2 water to rad till its full. straight
antifreeze will jell up and not circulate. cover the rad up and run it at fast idle till you feel the bottom hose is warm , that means its
circulating.
 
I never understood the BS line about straight antifreeze not working in cold weather. Back in the 80's we had some new antifreeze setting outside on the ground and never froze in -20 temps. I was told it should freeze long before that. So I call BS on the straight will not work. I've also had friends that would judt ad new fresh antifreeze to their vehicles in the winter till it must have been straight stuff or very nearly that. This was before the premixed stuff was around. I would plug in the block heater if you're not going to work on it tonight though.
 
Prestone starts to turn to frozen jelly at zero degrees .... at least that's what they say .... and that's why they sell the 50/50 premixed also.
But you guys know best.
 
Unless the top radiator hose is hot, the thermostat likely hasn't opened which would mean no antifreeze in the block.
 
(quoted from post at 20:06:19 01/01/21) I never understood the BS line about straight antifreeze not working in cold weather. Back in the 80's we had some new antifreeze setting outside on the ground and never froze in -20 temps. I was told it should freeze long before that. So I call BS on the straight will not work. I've also had friends that would judt ad new fresh antifreeze to their vehicles in the winter till it must have been straight stuff or very nearly that. This was before the premixed stuff was around. I would plug in the block heater if you're not going to work on it tonight though.
Click to expand...
here was a time when people would spread the story that straight anti-freeze wouldn't keep the engine cool. I don't believe that one either.
 
(reply to post at 16:21:00 01/01/21)
Click to expand...
es, It overheats when we brush-hog, all summer I ad water most times so the block was mostly water, that was my plan to have the full strength mix with the water in the block, just need to be sure it did.
 
(reply to post at 17:06:19 01/01/21)
Click to expand...
hank you very much, just trying to not have to knit her a sweater and make sure i dont have a cracked block in the morning. didn't
want to drain the entire block and knew the full strength should mix with the weak mostly water in the block and even out but needed to know how to tell for sure.... just a girl...... know enough to get myself into trouble. :roll:
 
use it straight if you want... but as i said it dont hurt a thing, other than it will jell up at -40 and colder. thats not b.s. that is the only reason not to use it straight. have had it happen also when its too strong and the cold wind hits the radiator. driving down the road in -40 is a pretty cold wind chill.
 
(reply to post at 18:00:54 01/01/21)
Click to expand...
dont know, i was concentrating on the bottom, I will have to plug in the block heaters tonight and go back and start again in the a.m., I just figured it doesn't get that cold here very often and the full strength mixed with the weak block water evens out to 50/50, just wondered what the typical time to run it was before the thermostat will open up at a medium idle????
 
(reply to post at 18:00:54 01/01/21)
Click to expand...
am not sure, i will have to start again tommorow and check, just wondering how long to run it at a medium idle on average before the thermostat usually would open up
 
I have found that is not always true due to a stuck thermostat. If the thermostat does not open the bottom hose can be warm/hot but yet the coolant not flowing
 
(quoted from post at 21:17:42 01/01/21) Prestone starts to turn to frozen jelly at zero degrees .... at least that's what they say .... and that's why they sell the 50/50 premixed also.
But you guys know best.
Click to expand...

the Prestone website says nothing about that.

Please provide current info from a published source.
 
leave the heater on tonight, drive it some tomorrow all will be well. By the way the "Just a Girl" thing is not operational. I teach technology at
St. Cloud State University, and the women in my classes are always setting the pace for the men. Furthermore, asking questions is a sign of
intelligence. Welcome to the forum, and believe me your very welcome. Jim
 
I agree straight is not the way to go for optimum cooling and you can mix at 75 % which is well below anything we’ll ever see in the states . We haven’t had a 45 below winter since the first couple years I took over the ranch probably 2004 or around there
cvphoto69761.jpg
 
To answer your question about time, I have two MF's with identical diesel engines and one will be warm in about 10 minutes and the other about 15 minutes, go figure. I "wonder" if after draining and refilling you got some air in the cooling system? You "may" want to remove the cap and let it idle a short time to see if it burps any air. If it's filled to the top of the radiator you may want to first remove some with a turkey baster and see if it burps then and afterwards refill to slightly below the neck on the rad, replace cap and let it idle. I would think your 25 minutes should be fine, if not, as suggested place some cardboard in front of the grill and see if the top hose warms up. Medium idle should be good. IF the bottom hose feels warm/hot but the top is not you may have a stuck thermostat, not uncommon when using water only. Good Luck with it and welcome to the board:)
 
I would think that you should run it for at least an hour in order to get a good mix of water and antifreeze. It would take quite a bit of circulation to get a good mix. Take the radiator cap off and watch the coolant after it's circulating. You will probably see a color change as the coolant and water slowly mix together.
 
I have been buying only the premix for many years now,, always the correct mix, and no problems with bad water making it to a basic acid that eats parts, to each his own how they do things,, some like cheapo junk oil I feel quality is well worth the few pennies more it costs again just me
 
(quoted from post at 17:58:21 01/01/21) as soon as the bottom hose is warm its circulating.
Click to expand...
hanks everyone, the REASON it was primarily water/weak antifreeze to start with was because every time I run it with the brush hog it overheats and my antifreeze ends up all over the ground, in summer that gets costly, temperature gauge not accurate, flat tire wont hold air, going to try and wrench on that today, no garage, doing this in the rain and mud, repair shop could not figure out overheating issue before, so I deal with it like this. But winter came, I was not prepared, I had full strength and not enough daylight or knowledge on draining the block so common sense would say half going in the radiator at full strength mixing in the block half equals about 50/50 but now is it ok to run a pressurized system with no cap?? I always thought I had to keep the lid on? Wont it explode steam in my face, start it and keep it running with the lid off from the start?
 
(quoted from post at 19:06:19 01/01/21) I never understood the BS line about straight antifreeze not working in cold weather. Back in the 80's we had some new antifreeze setting outside on the ground and never froze in -20 temps. I was told it should freeze long before that. So I call BS on the straight will not work. I've also had friends that would judt ad new fresh antifreeze to their vehicles in the winter till it must have been straight stuff or very nearly that. This was before the premixed stuff was around. I would plug in the block heater if you're not going to work on it tonight though.
Click to expand...

Data says a 98%+ pure solution of ethylene glycol has a freezing point of -12F.

MSDS sheet for Prestone antifreeze states ethylene glycol content at 75-95%.

Somewhere along the way someone realized they can add a percentage of water to the product to make it pourable at low temperatures and make more money at the same time.
 


I used to mix it 50/50 until this fall. I rad the can label for some reason and where it used to say 50/50 was good to -50F it snow says it takes 70/30 to get there. Not sure what happened, but I've had radiators freeze up and crack due to weak antifreeze. Expensive lesson.
 
Rest assured, there are no silly questions. There is a ton of experience here, so your questions may seem silly to some, but to you, they are your reality.

I would start the tractor with the cap removed and let it run at mid idle, watching the fluid in the radiator. Put an empty bucket under the radiator just in case it does overflow. Once you see a change in the flow in the radiator, or air being released, or if the liquid swells and seems constant, just install the cap carefully or shut it off and let it cool first.

A stuck-closed thermostat would cause the motor to heat higher quickly without transferring the heat to the radiator, not likely to cause your summer issues. A stuck-open thermostat will allow coolant flow to the radiator all the time, thus cooling more than you would want, also not causing your summer issue.

But a system not holding pressure, due to a leak, will boil at a lower temperature than a pressurized system, especially one with below-average coolant mix. That sounds like your summer issue, and should be found with a pressure test tool, which you can rent for free from O'Reilley and AutoZone.

Unfortunately, coolant can leak in weird places on a 50-year-old tractor. Look for signs of water in your oil or hydraulic fluid, usually a milky white/tan goo on the dipstick or cap.

Lots of these guys have far more experience with your specific tractor than I, and I'm always willing to learn from them. Well, most of them, that is...
 
(quoted from post at 09:05:26 01/02/21)
(quoted from post at 17:58:21 01/01/21) as soon as the bottom hose is warm its circulating.
Click to expand...
hanks everyone, the REASON it was primarily water/weak antifreeze to start with was because every time I run it with the brush hog it overheats and my antifreeze ends up all over the ground, in summer that gets costly, temperature gauge not accurate, flat tire wont hold air, going to try and wrench on that today, no garage, doing this in the rain and mud, repair shop could not figure out overheating issue before, so I deal with it like this. But winter came, I was not prepared, I had full strength and not enough daylight or knowledge on draining the block so common sense would say half going in the radiator at full strength mixing in the block half equals about 50/50 but now is it ok to run a pressurized system with no cap?? I always thought I had to keep the lid on? Wont it explode steam in my face, start it and keep it running with the lid off from the start?
Click to expand...

Is it possible you have been overfilling the rad?

Pretty sure your tractor will have a low pressure cooling system.

If so then the proper coolant level will be just above the fins.

Typical on this style system when you first run it after filling the rad it will push out the excess then be fine.
 
The loss of coolant could be that you are filling it up to the very top of the neck of the radiator. That is what is done with modern
cars/trucks/tractors, but not yours. The radiator should be filled only to an inch above the core. This is full. If filled up the expanding coolant
has no where to go, and pushes out of the cap and overflow. Use a wooden ruler to check the level, but don't spear it down in there, just feel for
the core as you put it in. If it overheats (actually is hot using a hand held temp gauge aimed at the top tank, above 200 Degrees F) Fixing it might
save it from destruction. Even if it means having someone else, or a different solution to tractoring needs. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 13:22:39 01/02/21) I have been buying only the premix for many years now,, always the correct mix, and no problems with bad water
Click to expand...

I make my own premix......Empty half a gal. of full strength into another jug, then top off both jugs with distilled water. Same difference only cheaper.
 
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