Free energy

teddy52food · Dec 19, 2020

Say we take a wire a mile or 2 long and put 100 watts of power to it. Checking the
other end we find 95 watts coming out with a 5 watt line loss. Input and output are
balanced. Nothing lost nothing gained. Then wind that insulated magnet wire into a
coil. Put the same 100 watts into it & we measure 95 watts out with the same 5 watt
line loss which shows up as heat in the coil. But again input and output are the same.
Nothing lost & nothing gained. But when we break the circuit on the coil, the field
collapses & we get a terrific jolt from the coil. That is free energy!

David G · Dec 19, 2020

What?

MarkB_MI · Dec 19, 2020

No Teddy, it's not free. Thermodynamics tells us there's no free lunch, even though there's always a crackpot who insists otherwise.

What you're doing is counting the transient energy release when the circuit is opened, but you've forgotten to count the transient energy storage when the circuit is first closed. They are exactly the same. When you close the circuit, the initial current is zero but slowly increases until it reaches a steady state which is limited by the resistance of the conductor. The energy stored in the coil at steady-state is 1/2Li<sup>2</sup>.

Janicholson · Dec 19, 2020

Well the instant the power was applied, the coiled wire absorbed that spark's energy in the induction of magnetism in the coil. It is measured in the
SI unit Henry (see link). In a Kettering ignition system it is coil saturation. (dwell allows saturation, it is very much not instantaneous) When the flow in your coil is interrupted, that magnetically stored energy is released collapsing magnetic "lines of force" drop through the wires pushing electrons (right hand rule). Every bit of energy that went in comes out. No miracle of free energy exists. Jim
induction

right hand rule

jimg.allentown · Dec 19, 2020

If input is 100 watts and output is 95 watts with a loss of 5 watts, where did the 5 watts go? Input and output are NOT equal if it is 100 watts in and 95 watts out.

According to the laws of physics, energy can neither be created nor destroyed - only converted. That 5 watts most likely went into saturating the coil to generate the spark when the circuit is broken.

Janicholson · Dec 19, 2020

The resistance of the coil to its saturation, is different than the heat loss from actual copper wire resistance. that loss is fundamentally heat from the energy needed to push electrons from atom to atom. That saturation happens at the introduction of voltage into the coil of wire. After that, assuming no motion or inductive connection to other system components, it is resistance and heat. Jim
Back EMF/Counter EMF

resistance of metals

Stephen Newell · Dec 19, 2020

A certain amount of electricity escapes to the environment. It's like when you take a florescent bulb out near where one of those transmission power lines are the bulb will illuminate. The bulb is picking up the power leaking from those lines.

A number of years ago they were working on free energy but the politicians killed it. The super conducting super collider if they would have worked the bugs out of it would have enabled them to catch the power from a lightening bolt and keep it until used. At the same time they were trying to develop a type electric wire that didn't leak. Once set up the plan was to charge a line fee for the electricity and not bother to meter it. Over time the line fees would have gotten cheaper and cheaper once they recovered from changing millions of miles of power lines.

Janicholson · Dec 19, 2020

Nope. Sorry there is induction based loss, not lost electricity in power lines, unless they are shorted to "ground". Jim

Bob M · Dec 19, 2020

As you point out energy can neither created nor destroyed.

Here the "missing" 5 watts is lost heating the conductors. It is called I squared R loss by electrical engineers.

In this scenario - 5 watts spread over a mile or two of wire - the temp rise will be so modest as to be essentially unmeasurable.

IaLeo · Dec 19, 2020

String that wire out parallel to and near as possible to the utility line and you might get free energy! lol Leo

buickanddeere · Dec 19, 2020

Considering 100% efficiency for simplicity .That is the 95w of magnetic field strength collapsing and releasing 95W of energy back into the coils. If this free energy was true, transformers would be an infinite source of energy after the first time they were energized.

buickanddeere · Dec 19, 2020

Stephen, you serious or kidding just to egg on poor ol Teddy52 ?

steve_in_mo · Dec 19, 2020

Everybody knows this to be true.

Traditional Farmer · Dec 19, 2020

About as good of an idea as to put short tires on the front of your tractor and real tall ones on the back,will save fuel because you are always going down hill.

IaLeo · Dec 19, 2020

Ah, you guys were against those 100mpg carburetors a while back too! lol. Now we will never know......Leo

Stephen Newell · Dec 19, 2020

That is what the people said that were trying to develop it.

buickanddeere · Dec 19, 2020

Who are "these people " ?

larbear · Dec 19, 2020

Listening to NPR a few years ago and there was a topic relevant to home electrical production being studied, I think at Wayne State U. One of the producing mechanisms might be a form of wind turbine something like a miniaturized combine reel, standing vertically and catching wind from any direction, able to do double duty as a roof vent. Of the wild brain Elon Musk has I think and what hasn't been easy to get into production is the solar panel roof shingle. Of course storage is the issue. The sun has to be the least intrusive to our life and lifestyle I'm thinking.

Stephen Newell · Dec 19, 2020

The scientist and engineers trying to develop the Super Collider. I watched an interview where they were explaining what they were trying to achieve. Sounds like a long shot but people thought the Wright Brothers were nuts. As far as they got with the project they really shouldn't have canceled it. Government wastes so much money on things with little or no gain. This would have improved everyone's lives.

Bill(Wis) · Dec 20, 2020

There is a super collider in Cern, Switzerland. It cost 5 billion dollars and has proved absolutely nothing. Now the so-called scientists are trying to build another one for 10 billion dollars. There are scientists who have left the program because they see what a farce it has been and continues to be. Our politicians did the right thing by denying monies to support such nonsense.

MarkB_MI · Dec 20, 2020

> There is a super collider in Cern, Switzerland. It cost 5 billion dollars and has proved absolutely nothing.

You mean nothing besides its most famous discovery, the Higgs Boson? Read on.
Large Hadron Supercollider discoveries

JMOR · Dec 20, 2020

(quoted from post at 12:27:51 12/19/20) Nope. Sorry there is induction based loss, not lost electricity in power lines, unless they are shorted to "ground". Jim

n escaping into the atmosphere: A radar transmits millions of Watts into the atmosphere and sometimes gets a microWatt back and most of the time nothing. Ponder that.

Stephen Newell · Dec 20, 2020

Yes it is expensive but the benefits couldn't be measured. If electricity was free everyone could heat their houses with electric and maybe except for large equipment all of our cars and trucks could be battery powered. Just think of how happy the environmental crackpots would be.

Free energy

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